Christianity vs Baha'i

[Redemptionsong]

I see the Law is needed for those that think they are born again as well.

It is needed so they do not become a law unto themselves, if they do they make of God's Word, what they choose.

Regards Tony

The law is good, but can you fulfil it? If you can't do it all, it's of little use in your personal salvation.

Having law is necessary to control disobedience. But if a person lives by the faith of Christ, they are made righteous in God.

Paul says, 'And the law is not of faith:' but 'The just shall live by faith' [Habakkuk 2:4].

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The law is good, but can you fulfil it? If you can't do it all, it's of little use in your personal salvation.

Having law is necessary to control disobedience. But if a person lives by the faith of Christ, they are made righteous in God.

Paul says, 'And the law is not of faith:' but 'The just shall live by faith' [Habakkuk 2:4].

So you are a faith only based Christian.

You asked can I live it, no I can not. I would ask, name one Christian, that was not Jesus, that does not need the law, that Faith has made them as Christ was?

You can include the Disciples in that consideration.

Regards Tony

 

[Redemptionsong]

So you are a faith only based Christian.

You asked can I live it, no I can not. I would ask, name one Christian, that was not Jesus, that does not need the law, that Faith has made them as Christ was?

You can include the Disciples in that consideration.

Regards Tony

Once you begin on the path of faith, you should not look back.

'For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.' [2 Peter 2:20-22]

It's the fruits (works) of faith that are rewarded [James 2:18], not our acts of disobedience. But grace is also merciful, making the way of faith a path marked by trial and correction. We grow in faith.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Once you begin on the path of faith, you should not look back.

'For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.' [2 Peter 2:20-22]

If Christ has returned, would not one be looking back?

Regards Tony

 

[Redemptionsong]

If Christ has returned, would not one be looking back?

Regards Tony

Based on my understanding and experience, Christ has sent the Holy Spirit, but He has not returned to judge the world, or to gather the flock, yet.

 

[Redemptionsong]

We have some good examples of those who did look back.

Genesis 19:26. 'But his [Lot's] wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.'

We also know that when Peter walked towards Jesus Christ on the lake, he was fine until he took his focus off the Lord; it was then that he began to drown [Matthew 14:29,30].

 

[CG Didymus]

Perhaps there is insight in asking why they do it, rather than how they do it. Obviously, they do do it.

I think I know why they do it. What ever heir prophet says is the truth. If he says a religion is wrong about certain things, then that's what they believe. If there are no specifics as to why their prophet said such a thing, then Baha'is use their Baha'i wisdom and insight to come up with a good reason he said it... in other words, they make something up.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think I know why they do it. What ever heir prophet says is the truth. If he says a religion is wrong about certain things, then that's what they believe. If there are no specifics as to why their prophet said such a thing, then Baha'is use their Baha'i wisdom and insight to come up with a good reason he said it... in other words, they make something up.

Yes, infallibility remains a challenge for open mindedness. I couldn't live with such contradictions personally, and there are many.

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, yes, Bahais believe God does not always write literal words. He does not reveal all the truth at once, so, instead He speaks in riddles, uses symbols, and metaphors to keep certain secrets hidden underneath these symbolic stories, such that those secrets will not be seen by ordinary people, until the next manifestation, when a new prophet and wise men appear to bring its interpretations.

A lot of the Bible is historical things. I think it is much more likely the writers told their story, and added in things about how their God interacted with them in that historical story. I don't think God wrote any of it. But the people certainly said things in those stories to make it sound like God did say things like "repent or I'm going to destroy your city." Not much of a riddle. If you say fictional, mythical, then I could see that.

 

[CG Didymus]

This requires us to consider how man has progressed spiritual as an individual, to a family, to a village, to a city and then on to a Nation.

Muhammad brought that personal connection with God to a collective belief in One God, that culminated in Nation building.

Baha'u'llah has come to build One planet with one people.

Helps me consider that before long we may be considering the necessity to foster unity with beings from other planets.

Regards Tony

So before Muhammad there was no such thing as a nation? Yet, there were many empires? Strange? So let's work backwards... Muhammad brought nations... Jesus brought cities? Already this is messed up. Jesus' message didn't unite the village people into cities. Where do you get this stuff from? What is the quote from Abdul Baha' or Baha'u'llah that suggests such a thing.

 

[CG Didymus]

If the message was exactly what the scribes heard Muhammad speak, and it was later recorded in the Qur'an, it was the original message from God through the Angel Gabriel.

Lots of problems. The message came from God to the Angel Gabriel then to Muhammad who dictated it to people who wrote it down? So if I told you that an Angel spoke to me and for you to write down what I tell you, you'd believe me? Of course not. But you believe Muhammad? And what about Joseph Smith? He said he spoke to the Angel Moroni. Then he dictated what he read off of some special golden plates and dictated it to someone. Should we believe him? If not, why don't we?

The Tanakh and the Bible are not first or second hand, they are third hand at best, as we do not even know who wrote them. As such, all those scriptures have to be *believed* solely on faith, faith that they were divinely inspired.

So Moses didn't write the first five books of the Bible? Isaiah or Daniel or Jerimiah didn't write the books ascribed to them? Yet, with those prophets, and the others, we believe their prophesies?

 

[CG Didymus]

No, there are no verses that say "Satan exists." That was just an assumption made by Christians, because they interpreted the verses literally instead of figuratively.

Are there verses in the Bible that say that Adam existed? Or Moses? Or Jesus? Or God? If so, which verses are you using that show that they existed?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

A lot of the Bible is historical things. I think it is much more likely the writers told their story, and added in things about how their God interacted with them in that historical story. I don't think God wrote any of it. But the people certainly said things in those stories to make it sound like God did say things like "repent or I'm going to destroy your city." Not much of a riddle. If you say fictional, mythical, then I could see that.

Aha, so you think then, Abdulbaha found some prophetic passages from this manmade Bible, and found ways to match them with histories of Muhammad, the Bab and Bahaullah. So, when Abdulbaha saw three woes, He used His imagination and said, lets say these three woes are Muhammad, the Bab and Bahaullah. Or when He saw 1260, He used His imagination and said, this matches with the number of years between Muhammad and the Bab. And also 1290 or 1335, luckily matched with from the time of Muhammad till Bahaullah, and establishment of UHJ.
And when Abdulbaha saw passage about Mount Paran, He thought this place is in Arabia, where Muhammad appeared, so, lets say this is an allusion to Muhammad. And also, Golry of God, happens to mean Bahaullah in Arabic,...etc etc.

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus also tried to bring peace and unity. Mohammad was not the first. So, what is new with Bahaollah?
Bahaollah has come and gone just like the others. We are still divided.

Baha'u'llah is supposed to be the promised one of all religions. I wonder... what was it that all those promised ones were supposed to accomplish? I guess it says that the promised one is to come, get thrown in jail, start a religion and bring a bunch of laws that someday will lead to peace and then die.

I don't think there are verses about the Jewish Messiah that prophecy that, but maybe there is. Same with Christianity,.. the Christ is to come and die again without establishing peace? I don't know where it says that, but maybe, somewhere in the New Testament, it says that?

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, all those three scriptures are legitimate, and valid from Bahai POV.



Bahais have only a different interpretations of those titles.
Jesus was Son of God, but not biological son of God. He was a spiritual son of God.

Muhammad was the seal of Prophets, and He was the last Prophet in Adamic Cycle, until the Judgement Day. Judgement Day in Bahai view has come, and that was Day of Manifestation of the Bab.



Please see my post #814

Baha'is have a different interpretation of a lot of things in every religion. So what is it? God spoke in riddles. He couldn't plainly say what the Truth was?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Baha'is have a different interpretation of a lot of things in every religion. So what is it? God spoke in riddles. He couldn't plainly say what the Truth was?

No, the followers of those religions misinterpreted the Words of God. Only God Himself can interpret His own words.

 

[CG Didymus]

Aha, so you think then, Abdulbaha found some prophetic passages from this manmade Bible, and found ways to match them with histories of Muhammad, the Bab and Bahaullah. So, when Abdulbaha saw three woes, He used His imagination and said, lets say these three woes are Muhammad, the Bab and Bahaullah. Or when He saw 1260, He used His imagination and said, this matches with the number of years between Muhammad and the Bab. And also 1290 or 1335, luckily matched with from the time of Muhammad till Bahaullah, and establishment of UHJ.
And when Abdulbaha saw passage about Mount Paran, He thought this place is in Arabia, where Muhammad appeared, so, lets say this is an allusion to Muhammad. And also, Golry of God, happens to mean Bahaullah in Arabic,...etc etc.

Yes, did Baha'u'llah or Muhammad say anything about the Three Woes being about them? Show me in the verses about the Three Woes how that describes Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Then the 1260... Baha'is make different events all begin and end with the same thing. The Hegira and the declaration of The Bab. Yet, those events did not begin or end on the years of the Hegira and the declaration of the Bab. And really, several thousands of years ago God told Daniel, "Hey why don't you give a prophecy about the year when the UHJ gets established." No, I'm a little bit skeptical. Just like I am with the "prophecies" in the beginning of the gospel of Matthew. To me, they seem totally contrived.

 

[CG Didymus]

No, the followers of those religions misinterpreted the Words of God. Only God Himself can interpret His own words.

Or, it was words of men about their God and later more men interpreted them to fit their beliefs. And now what Baha'is believe contradicts those beliefs so they come up with a reasonable, to them, explanation to why those old beliefs were wrong.

 

[rational experiences]

History. Rome did not believe the Christ Revelations against science practices....life being sacrificed. Known history. Temple and pyramid was the scientific technology in their age. Science has proof that it has been practiced in civilization multi times.

Rome was affected by the science aware life sacrifice and climatic changes, then agreed that the science notification advice correct. They then no longer supported the science. The owners would not stop using it. So Rome sent a ship into the harbour where the most important Temple in the circuit "jeru" meaning where it turned and blasted it. True history and held in human memory recorded.

A long lived want of the attack to be stopped involved toppling the Temple science...which is stated to be a long fought over human history. In human reality.

History quotes the humans living owning the sciences lived in the vicinity of both the Temples and the pyramids.

Get attacked in their natural life by "quoted" God changes. Which is planetary notification and heavenly conditions.

Re live the exact same quoted history, are re notified that the Christ and Roman order to never change the planet was correct.

They teach the advice their own selves as real. Yet it is historic in both events.

History is lived only by the humans in the time frame of their experience in the natural conditions that advise them. It is not an ongoing event.

Different DNA and countries living on Earth as a human experience prove that circumstance reality.

Teaching. All humans are the same equal human status on Earth. Self teaching for self awareness.

Teaching other than this status today is to falsify natural advice.

The teaching preached said that to continue to learn self is incorrect was a human condition that should be honoured. As historic advice quotes that the scientist was proven wrong multi times as that advice.

Why it became a teaching in human life.

 

[CG Didymus]

No, the followers of those religions misinterpreted the Words of God. Only God Himself can interpret His own words.

Oh, one more thing, earlier a Baha'i, Trailblazer, was saying how the Bible is far from being first hand information from God. So the supposed Words of God could already be the words of men. Or, do you believe the unknown writers of the Bible accurately told the stories and the things of God? Let me help you with that... No, Baha'is don't believe the Bible is necessarily accurate. So what part of the Bible do you see as being the "Words of God"?