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Christianity vs Baha'i

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Jesus fulfilled all of the messianic prophecies. Some of them are meant to be fulfilled at his second coming. Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org
The problem is, the Christians are wrong about the second coming of the same man Jesus....
They have to be wrong unless Jesus lied or the New Testament is in error:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Of course that is what a Christian website is going to say because Christians are still waiting for the same Jesus to drop down on the clouds.. The Baha'i Faith cannot be reconciled to Christianity but it can be reconciled to the Bible, if the Bible is interpreted correctly. It is ALL about interpretation, ALL.

Of course many men have come claiming to be Christ, and Jesus warned us so we would not be deceived by these men, but that does not mean that one of them was not the return of Christ.

The Bahai faith cannot be reconciled to the Bible because it rejects the doctrine of the Trinity. John 14:28, "The Father is greater than I." | CARM.org

John 14:28, "The Father is greater than I."
"You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.'" (John 14:28).

Jesus said that the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God but because Jesus was also a man, and as a man, He was in a lower position. He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . ." (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."

Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people.

A comparison can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife, but, he is no different in nature, and he is no better than she. They share the same nature--being human, and they work together by love.

So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man, and as a man, He was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law, namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).

For further reading please see The two natures of Jesus.

Scriptures Quoted:
  1. Phil. 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
  2. Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"
  3. Gal. 4:4-5, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."
  4. Heb. 2:9, "But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone."
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
The problem is, the Christians are wrong about the second coming of the same man Jesus....
They have to be wrong unless Jesus lied or the New Testament is in error:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

The kingdom of Jesus is not of this world means that Jesus came to save us and teach us how to live. Jesus coming into the world to bear witness unto the truth doesn't mean that he won't come again.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The Messiah Would Bring in a New Covenant

The Messiah Would Bring in a New Covenant
Reference: Jeremiah 31:31–34
Fulfillment: Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 7:22; 8:6–13; 9:15; 10:14–18; 12:24

The expression “new covenant” appears seven times in the New Testament, and the new covenant is even more frequently referred to simply as the “covenant,” with the context showing what is meant. References to this covenant are especially frequent in the book of Hebrews, but also occur during Jesus’ final Passover meal (the Last Supper) and in other passages as well.

All these occurrences go back to Jeremiah 31:31–34, where God promises to Israel that He will initiate a new covenant. God characterizes this new covenant as “not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt” (verse 32) – in other words, “not like” the Mosaic covenant, the Law of Moses.
Baha'u'llah brought a new Covenant.

the Covenant of Baha'u'llah

The Bahá’í Faith began with the mission entrusted by God to two Divine Messengers—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. Today, the distinctive unity of the Faith They founded stems from explicit instructions given by Bahá’u’lláh that have assured the continuity of guidance following His passing. This line of succession, referred to as the Covenant, went from Bahá’u’lláh to His Son ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, and then from ‘Abdu’l-Bahá to His grandson, Shoghi Effendi, and the Universal House of Justice, ordained by Bahá’u’lláh. A Bahá’í accepts the divine authority of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh and of these appointed successors.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I understand what you are saying because I believe that the Jews and Muslims misinterpret the Bible. Since Jewish people dont believe in the New Testament, its like what you said about you thinking that Christians dont have complete revelation. Its less possible to misunderstand and misenterpert the Old Testament prophecies when you read the New Testament. It makes it more possible to understand the meaning of prophecies about the Messiah. People believe Jesus was a wise man, a prophet, a guru, an enlightened teacher, an avatar, because they dont want to believe that they are sinners who need a Savior. The mathematical chances Jesus fullfilled all of the messianic prophecies was one in trillions. You could say I could be wrong but I also could be right. Mathematical Probability that Jesus is the Christ
I agree that Jews and Muslims misinterpret the Bible. But I also believe that Christians misinterpret the Bible. It's less possible to misunderstand and misinterpret the New Testament prophecies when you read the Writings of Baha'u'llah. Reading those makes it more possible to understand the meaning of prophecies about the Messiah.

I believe you are right that Jesus was the Messiah, just not the Messiah of the second advent, which is why many of the Old Testament prophecies were not fulfilled by Jesus.

Many of the Old Testament prophecies and some of the New Testament prophecies are in this short video:

 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The Bahai faith cannot be reconciled to the Bible because it rejects the doctrine of the Trinity. John 14:28, "The Father is greater than I." | CARM.org
The Baha'i Faith has its own version of the Trinity.

We believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, so in that sense we believe in a Trinity; but we do not think that these three are part of God. Rather, they are separate entities that work together. That is explained in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

Some people get lost in that chapter, so I wrote up a brief encapsulation of it;

There is only One God.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God, an emanation from God. God is like the sun and the Holy Spirit is like the rays of the sun. God remains in His own high place, and does not ever descend to earth.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which became visible and evident in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror, but God did not descend into the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the God was visible and manifest in this mirror.

The Comforter, Counselor, Helper, and Advocate are all descriptive terms or titles used for the Bounty of God that came to us through the Holy Spirit.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Jesus coming into the world to bear witness unto the truth doesn't mean that he won't come again.
But the following verses mean that the same Jesus who walked the earth will not come again.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
“I believe that "in like manner" means they the spirit of Jesus would return as it came down before, from the heaven of the Will of God.”

That doesn't say he won't come back but rather when he was taken to Heaven, he wouldn't be seen any more. If I am wrong, you can't just say "It can't mean that" -- what do you understand "He will come again" means? Sounds pretty clear to me.
Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Bible verses can have more than one interpretation. I believe that the disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven, in like manner.

The verse does not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.
But when God's Kingdom comes.. it WILL be his Kingdom a Spiritual Kingdom. Even the Jews believe the Messiah is coming to rule on this earth. They didn't misunderstand their scriptures.
I believe it will be a Spiritual Kingdom but also an Earthly Kingdom. I believe the Jews are wrong about the Messiah ruling like a King ruling on earth and there are no verses that say that. It was just an interpretation they came up with based upon expectations they had. I believe that the Messiah did rule on earth during His lifetime, but not like a King, but just because of His Glory. I believe that the throne of David refers to the Most Great Law and the Law refers to the Revelation of God that came through Baha’u’llah.

“THE Most Great Law is come, and the Ancient Beauty ruleth upon the throne of David. Thus hath My Pen spoken that which the histories of bygone ages have related. At this time, however, David crieth aloud and saith: ‘O my loving Lord! Do Thou number me with such as have stood steadfast in Thy Cause, O Thou through Whom the faces have been illumined, and the footsteps have slipped!’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 89-90

I believe that Jesus is ruling in heaven and His Kingdom is everlasting.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks
Besides, He can't come through the Easter Gate of Jerusalem (which still stands today) without him coming back.

Jerusalem's eastern gate, mount of olives, messiah to open eastern gate to jerusalem
Following is how I believe the Messiah will appear, based upon scripture.

18. Lightning from the East

I now began an earnest search for clues that would tell me something about the place in which the Messiah would appear. Two interesting things came to light. For the first coming, Daniel had given the time and Micah had given the place. Daniel had prophesied exactly when the Messiah would appear the first time and when He would be slain. Micah had said of the place: “But thou, Bethlehem … out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.” (Micah 5:2)

Daniel had also prophesied with even greater exactness the time of the second coming of the Messiah in 1844 (see p. 20). Therefore, I turned to Micah for a possible clue as to the place of His second appearance. I was richly rewarded. In Micah 7:7 and 12 I found:

“I will wait for the God of my salvation … In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria …” (Micah 7:7, 12)

The Assyrian Empire at one time covered the entire area in which both Daniel and Micah lived out their lives. Therefore, I chose to study those parts of the Empire, in which these two prophets traditionally lived and taught. To my surprise, I found that there were many other clues to follow as well. Gradually one led to another, until a definite picture began to emerge, and I knew at least in which direction to turn my gaze.

The book of Ezekiel spoke of a great Figure who would come in those days. He said: “And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.” (Ezekiel 43:2)

This was clearly a reference to the second coming of Christ and not the first, for Jesus did not come from the way of the East, He came from north and west of Jerusalem. Isaiah in like manner spoke of the wondrous Figure who would come from the East. Isaiah said that it was God Himself Who had “… raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings.” (Isaiah 41:2) Even Christ Himself pointed to the direction from which He would appear in the day of His second coming. Speaking of that day, He said: “For as the lightning cometh out of the East … so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”(Matthew 24:27)

The Jewish Oracles, the Sibylline books, prophesied that the ‘King Messiah’ of the time of the end would come ‘from the sunrise’.(The Messianic Idea in Israel, J. G. Klausner, 1956, p. 376). Daniel had written his words of millennial prophecy while in the East. In fact, he was in Elam, a part of ancient Persia, when he foretold with such startling accuracy the exact time of both the first and the second comings of Christ. It was in the capital city of Persia, Shúshán, (Ancient Susa, Khúzistán, south-west Írán) that Daniel had the prophetic vision that revealed the year 1844 as the time for the return of the Messiah. Daniel not only gave the time 1844, but he also directed attention to the place, saying that ‘Elam’ (Persia) would be given as a place of ‘vision’ in the latter days (Daniel 8:2).The Prophet Jeremiah speaks of things that ‘shall come to pass in the latter days’ and in the verse preceding this, he says: “And I will set my throne in Elam (Persia) … saith the Lord.”(Jeremiah 49:38). I came across a prophecy well known among the Arabs. Speaking of the time of the end, it said:“When the promised One appears, the ‘upholders of His faith shall be the people of Persia.’”(The Dawn-breakers, Nabíl, p. 49). All these prophecies clearly showed that the Messiah would come from the East, and they put a strong emphasis on the territory of Persia. It was something definite to go on. The circle was narrowing.

William Sears, Thief in the Night, pp. 73-75

Daniel 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

Isaiah 41:2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow.

The Lord was prophesied to set His throne in Elam, from which the Messiah would rule.
Elam is modern-day Persia, where Baha’u’llah was born.

Jeremiah 49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.

When that verse was recorded Elam existed and the verses for the coming of the Lord refer to the latter days.

Jeremiah 49:39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.

upload_2020-11-21_23-9-6.png

upload_2020-11-21_23-9-18.png
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Which has the better beliefs about God?

While I am familiar with Christian belief, please feel free to say while you feel Christianity is the correct belief to have.

The little I know about the Baha'i religion comes mostly from these forums.

However, I think I'm correct in thinking that according to Baha'i all should become Baha'i because it has the better understanding/knowledge of God.

If you think this is true, why? What is better about your understanding? Why should Christians convert to Baha'i? Or do you see Christianity, the beliefs, the knowledge of God being equal to Baha'i? So there is nothing to be gained by a Christain converting to Baha'i?
Both paths are mainly vedic or religious in nature which means there will be plenty of differences in viewpoint to confuse people because they are based on theory rather than results from tantric types of practice.

There is no harm in switching from one type of religion to another but theoretical arguments for doing so are quite baseless.
For those who have outgrown religious ways of thinking the next step is to start doing real intuitional (tantric) practices and transend vedic type of differences.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
No, Bahais believe that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ, the Messiah, and the Promised One of all the religions of the past.

"If Baha'u'llah truly is the Promised One then His appearance is one of the greatest events of human history. Are Baha'u'llah's claim true? How can we know for certain? Just take a look at some of the proofs and prophecies... and then decide for yourself."

Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

Just starting with the first "proof". A line from Revelation " and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."
Is changed to days - twelve hundred and sixty days and then each day becomes a year - twelve hundred and sixty years,

Then - "As the period of twelve hundred and sixty years has expired, Jerusalem, the Holy City, is now beginning to become prosperous, populous and flourishing. Anyone who saw Jerusalem sixty years ago, and who sees it now, will recognize how populous and flourishing it has become, and how it is again honored. "

Well first the "prophecy" is using numerology to make a prediction. But the prediction did not happen.

In 1260 Mongol raids were still a problem, "The general consensus of modern historians is that though Jerusalem may or may not have been subject to raids,"..."However, the city had no great political power, and was in fact considered by the Mamluks as a place of exile for out-of-favor officials. The city itself was ruled by a low-ranking emir.[15]"
Then - "The history of Jerusalem during the Middle Ages is generally one of decline; beginning as a major city in the Byzantine Empire, Jerusalem prospered during the early centuries of Muslim control (637/38–969), but under the rule of the Fatimid caliphate (late 10th to 11th centuries) its population declined from about 200,000 to less than half

They pick verses from Revelation and match them to completely random events to suggest signs from Revelations are happening:
""The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them"

Was it a beast? No. They now say say "beast" meant the Umayyads a Caliphate group fighting Muslims. Battles which happened all the time throughout these centuries. Total random picking and choosing mundane events then claiming "Hey Look Revelations came true so this must be a God-messenger".

The his beast means the Umayyads who attacked them from the pit of error, and who rose against the religion of Muhammad and against the reality of Ali - in other words, the love of God.

Wow, what an assault on critical thinking. That is just the first "proof", wrong in every way.
They are attempting to make Revelations true by matching human tribal wars to predictions in Revelations?
Of course Rev is clear. There are numerous dragons, 7 headed monsters, mountains (all of them) moving, humans live in caves, angels and insane supernatural events happening including false religions all on fire. Did we get any of that? Nope. Just the normal daily fighting in the Middle East.

It continues like this until the end. No prophecies being fulfilled in the slighest and many of them fake numerology conspiracy theory prophecies.
It's a sham. I am optimistic that eventually enough people will embrace critical thinking and bad evidence will no longer be accepted as evidence.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Just starting with the first "proof". A line from Revelation "
Ask me if I care. I am not the one waiting for the return of Christ, the Christians are.

I do not need proof from the Bible, I already have my proof from the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. :)
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Why can't there be more than one mediator?
Who was the mediator before Jesus came? Don't you believe that Moses was the mediator for the Jews?
Do you think that the Omnipotent God is powerless to send another mediator?

Scripture tells us there is only one mediator. Why do you doubt scripture?

Moses was 100% man, but not 100% God. He was a prophet, but he was also a sinner, like you and I. The same can be said of every other human that has walked this earth. The only exception, according to the Bible, is Jesus Christ.

The book of Ephesians has additional things to say about the oneness of Truth.
Ephesians 4:1-6. 'I [Paul] Therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.
With all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.'

If a person does not receive baptism in the Holy Spirit, given through faith in Jesus Christ, that person is not a part of the body of Christ, the Church of God.

It's a narrow way! [Matthew 7:13,14]
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
The problem is, the Christians are wrong about the second coming of the same man Jesus....
They have to be wrong unless Jesus lied or the New Testament is in error:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

Interesting.

What do you think about the olivet discourse and his coming of of the Son of Man episode? Is Jesus referring to someone else?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Ask me if I care. I am not the one waiting for the return of Christ, the Christians are.

I do not need proof from the Bible, I already have my proof from the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. :)

I am interested to know your perspective on the Revelations episode of the coming of the "Word of God" (Logos tou theos). Is that another person?
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
I think the Parable of the Wicked Husband men (aka Parable of the Bad Tenants) shows a difference between Jesus and other God's mediators (prophets). In the Bible Jesus is represented as the Messiah, not just one of prophets. Prophets had a relationship with God closer than most people but Jesus is even closer.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
I am interested to know your perspective on the Revelations episode of the coming of the "Word of God" (Logos tou theos). Is that another person?
I am not sure exactly what verse of the Revelations you are referring.

But, maybe this quote from Bahaullah be relevant:


"Say: The Book of God hath been sent down in the form of this Youth. Hallowed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of makers!" - Bahaullah

Here, by "Youth" is meant Bahaullah. The Book of God, which is the Word of God, is sent down as the person of Bahaullah. Meaning, God has made Bahaullah, to be His Word.

This is another example from Writings of Bahaullah, He refers to Himself as the Living Book:

"Take heed lest ye be prevented by aught that hath been recorded in the Book from hearkening unto this, the Living Book, Who proclaimeth the truth: “Verily, there is no God but Me, the Most Excellent, the All-Praised.”"
- Bahaullah


In Islam, the Quran is the Word of God.
کلام الله
 
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firedragon

Veteran Member
I am not sure exactly what verse of the Revelations you are referring.

But, maybe this quote from Bahaullah be relevant:


"Say: The Book of God hath been sent down in the form of this Youth. Hallowed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of makers!" - Bahaullah

Here, by "Youth" is meant Bahaullah. The Book of God, which is the Word of God, is sent down as the person of Bahaullah. Meaning, God has made Bahaullah, to be His Word.

This is another example from Writings of Bahaullah, He refers to Himself as the Living Book:

"Take heed lest ye be prevented by aught that hath been recorded in the Book from hearkening unto this, the Living Book, Who proclaimeth the truth: “Verily, there is no God but Me, the Most Excellent, the All-Praised.”"
- Bahaullah


In Islam, the Quran is the Word of God.
کلام الله

Revelations 19:11 onwards.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I am not sure exactly what verse of the Revelations you are referring.

But, maybe this quote from Bahaullah be relevant:


"Say: The Book of God hath been sent down in the form of this Youth. Hallowed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of makers!" - Bahaullah

Here, by "Youth" is meant Bahaullah. The Book of God, which is the Word of God, is sent down as the person of Bahaullah. Meaning, God has made Bahaullah, to be His Word.

This is another example from Writings of Bahaullah, He refers to Himself as the Living Book:

"Take heed lest ye be prevented by aught that hath been recorded in the Book from hearkening unto this, the Living Book, Who proclaimeth the truth: “Verily, there is no God but Me, the Most Excellent, the All-Praised.”"
- Bahaullah



In Islam, the Quran is the Word of God.
کلام الله

Please provide reference of the above quotes.

Regards
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Good morning CG.

I see Baha'u'llah has shown how to beleive all the Messengers and what they offered.

Regards Tony
And that is far different than the message as given. The message as given in the NT is not the message that Baha'is give. The one I usually argue with you about is the resurrection. The message given in the NT says Jesus came back to life. Baha'is say that the resurrection story was not literal but symbolic. So "how" we are to believe in Jesus does not include a physical resurrection. And many of us don't believe it literally happened. The difference is that some of us say it was a made up, embellished story that has a lot in common with other stories from other religions about dying and rising saviors. Which makes if a lie. Makes it fictional. Makes it nothing but a myth.

What do Baha'is say? From what I've heard Baha'is make it sound like God "inspired" the gospel writers to write a "symbolic" story about Jesus rising from the dead to test the people? To see if they would be spiritual enough to understand the symbolic meaning in the story? But then Baha'is make most all "miraculous" Bible stories symbolic... Creation, the flood, stopping the sun in the sky, parting of the seas, turning a walking stick into a snake, walking on water. By the time we're done, what part of the Bible is not fictional?

The message of the Bible as believed by the conservative, fundamentalists and orthodox sides of Judaism and Christianity is totally and completely wrong according to Baha'is. That is the Baha'i message... and it might be right. Those beliefs of the Jews and Christians might all be wrong and filled with misinterpretations and superstitious beliefs. But then what do Baha'is really believe about Moses and Jesus? What was their true message and teachings? We can't trust what's in the Bible and NT. We can only trust what Baha'u'llah has said about what is true about them.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Hi CG.

I think the bottom line is that any religion or any interpretation of religion which doesn’t bring people together in love, fellowship and unity, is not true religion, as even Jesus commanded us to love one another, and in the Bible it says that God is love, that God is no respecter of persons, and that the sun and rain fall upon both the good and bad, not to judge others, that would include religions, lest we be judged, and to be as one body, united.

These are all paraphrased verses from the Bible. So apart from symbolic or literal meanings, there is a very clear exhortation to love others even ones enemies and to be united, yet focus has not been on these foundational issues but rather on very superficial matters such as supremacy and superiority.


To have love and brotherhood amongst humanity is far more important than trivial things like supremacy or superiority, for aren’t we all children of God and He loves us all and not especially one race, religion or nation? Again, God is no respecter of persons and loves us all, so why should we create this imaginary barrier called ‘us and them’ unless we have utterly forgotten the true spirit of Christ was love in essence.? Love for all humankind.?

Do we think that by division into over 40,000 sects this is pleasing to Jesus or God?

This is why Christ had to return, to reestablish love and unity as the foundation of religion not political power, nor supremacy nor superiority, all rather egotistical pursuits not spiritual.

Baha’u’llah reiterated that religion is for love, harmony and fellowship and that any belief which is a cause of disunity, sectarianism, war and so on is not true religion, as religion must cause love and unity.


So when an interpretation leads to prejudice, separation, war and sectarianism, then how can it be correct when Christ promoted love and unity? Surely, if the interpretation contradicts the Bible then the interpreter has clearly erred. And the Bible teaches love and unity. Yet we hear Muhammad or Baha’u’llah are false and ‘we are the greatest”. That’s clearly not the humility Jesus displayed and taught. That’s just how the Jews judged Christ and were they right?


I believe that any interpretation of the Bible which builds bridges, reconciles differences, and unites people from all faiths and races is the true interpretation. Christ did say that one day there would be ‘one fold and one shepherd’ indicating He envisioned all humanity as a family working together harmoniously.

I humbly believe the Bible is a messenger of love, so let’s see and embrace the interpretation which supports Jesus teachings on love and unity and all other divisive interpretations be put aside as they contradict what Jesus lived and died for - love.
Unfortunately, God orders a lot of people to be killed, because they worshipped false Gods. In the NT the reason people are all one when Christ returns is, because he throws all the evil, non-believing people into a fiery abyss. Lots of religions make it an us and them issue. They say, "We have the truth and they don't." Religions have divided people. Can the Baha'i Faith unify all people? Can Baha'is get along with the fundamentalists sides of the other religions? Because they are not going to get along with Baha'is.

They believe the Baha'i Faith is a false religion. That is the question here, Christianity vs. Baha'i, what are the differences? But, again, I'm talking about the fundamentalist, evangelical, born-again, literalist Christians. You don't believe what they believe is true. And they don't believe what you say is true. Baha'is don't believe Jesus is God and that he rose physically from the dead etc. Baha'is are saying those are false beliefs. How do you get along and make friends with people in another religion when Baha'is believe most everything they believe is wrong?
 
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