Christianity vs. spiritualism, sorcery, and witchcraft

[blackout]

The laying (and praying) on of hands.

Energy healing.

 

[blackout]

Stirring the Holy Spirit.


Energy Stirring.

 

[blackout]

Magical (though ordinary) waters + Pastor/Priest + "rite"/ritual/"word/s" = baptism.(new life/ie transformation)

Magic waters (symbolic medium) + Magician + "word/s" = trans'formation. (also "rite/right" of "passage")




(same for marriage. the rings. the rite. the "celebrant"/medium. the transformation= two become (as) one.)

 

[blackout]

Vestments/Ritual Garments,
Ritual tools,
Prayers/Intentions
Blessed Objects/Power Objects/Talismans
"Word" books (bible/missal/prayer/catechism)="Spell" books.

Priest/Pastor/Prayer Leader/Intercessor = MEDIUM.

I could easily go on.
But I feel I've made my point.

 

[EtuMalku]

What exactly is your point with all these posts?

Vestments/Ritual Garments,
Ritual tools,
Prayers/Intentions
Blessed Objects/Power Objects/Talismans
"Word" books (bible/missal/prayer/catechism)="Spell" books.

Priest/Pastor/Prayer Leader/Intercessor = MEDIUM.

I could easily go on.
But I feel I've made my point.

 

[blackout]

I said....

christians practice magicks under a christian veneer ALL THE TIME.

I see it constantly.

Differing denominations/congregations package them differently,
but packaging is just packaging.

Then Midnight Pete said...

Can you elaborate?

and the rest was my elaboration.


Do you take any particular objection to my observations EM?

 

[Midnight Pete]

UltraViolet, I understand your point of view. You see Christianity through a Pagan filter. You make observations based on that point of view which lend a certain amount of context to mine. This kind of understanding is a very rare currency.

 

[blackout]

UltraViolet, I understand your point of view. You see Christianity through a Pagan filter. You make observations based on that point of view which lend a certain amount of context to mine. This kind of understanding is a very rare currency.

I was a very devout christian for almost 10 years,
first as a Catholic Christian, then later as an "out of church" Christian,
before I dropped the christian labels/vocabulary/veneer altogether.
(As unnecessary and even cumbersome
to describing/packaging my actual NEW LIFE experience.
Which I first understood in light of MY OWN understanding
of Jesus' Kingdom teachings.)
You have really no idea all of the filters I have seen things through.

Thus the bigger conclusion that "filters" are just filters.
It is the LIFE EXPERIENCE that counts.
(the labels are what we package them in, mentally--psycologically and catagorically)

I experience many of the very same "Wonders" now,
that I did then (as a christian of any kind),
but in a different context,
and now,
I call them magic.
(and explain them differently)
But they are still essentially the same thing.
That's because life, is life, by any other label.

Openness to "miracles" and Openness to "magic"
are pretty much the very same thing in essence,
and in a "practical" sense
operate the same way.
It's the UnderStanding that differs...
and thust the Stance from which it is Held... Lifted... Directed... and Weilded.
Also "Dogmatic religious miracle and ritual" (through the filter of mindset)
have certain strings attached, certain rules,
and limitations of context... allowance... appropriateness and all that.
Free Form Magic doesn't.
It is wide open to the in(ner)'spiration of Self.

"moralities" and icon change the... scope... of the magic,
I guess you could say. But not WHAT magic IS, itself.




Would you mind unpacking/explaining this....

You make observations based on that point of view which lend a certain amount of context to mine. This kind of understanding is a very rare currency.

a bit for me?
I don't know what your meaning is here.

 

[Midnight Pete]

You make observations based on that point of view which lend a certain amount of context to mine. This kind of understanding is a very rare currency.

Unpacked:

I if I can understand or "unpack" someone else' religious/ideological point of view, I can compare it to my own. And if I can do that, I can contemplate what my religious/ideological POV must look like to that other person. It's like going to foreign country and asking the natives about how they perceive your culture. The information they give you about your own culture (as they see it) is essential to forming a better understanding of who you are and where you come from.

I could unpack it more, but maybe via e-mail or PM.

 

[blackout]

Unpacked:

I if I can understand or "unpack" someone else' religious/ideological point of view, I can compare it to my own. And if I can do that, I can contemplate what my religious/ideological POV must look like to that other person. It's like going to foreign country and asking the natives about how they perceive your culture. The information they give you about your own culture (as they see it) is essential to forming a better understanding of who you are and where you come from.

I could unpack it more, but maybe via e-mail or PM.

Ah. Thanks. I get it, but if you feel you want to PM me something,
feel free. Just DO NOT try and convert me.
Honey, I have never been healthier,
or happier with WHO I AM.

I squeezed out the christianity cloth,
till there was not one drop left.
And I'm pleased with that.
It was what i was supposed to do.
It made me, finally, free,
to be mySelf, and be happy.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is my understanding that there are groups and individuals that claim to be Christian and yet adopt one or several of the beliefs mentioned in the OP.

I'm not sure that it is possible to objectively decide that they are wrong, even if I often find myself amused by the creativity of some of those claims.

So I ask: isn't the OP essentially asking about adherence to a specific interpretation of what "Christian" means? Or am I wrong and there are objective criteria to be followed?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Ah. Thanks. I get it, but if you feel you want to PM me something,
feel free. Just DO NOT try and convert me.
Honey, I have never been healthier,
or happier with WHO I AM.

I squeezed out the christianity cloth,
till there was not one drop left.
And I'm pleased with that.
It was what i was supposed to do.
It made me, finally, free,
to be mySelf, and be happy.

I don't believe in converting people. Most of the time, evangelizing is sleazy, disingenuous, obvious. I equate it with prostitution. Even with the very best of intentions it can do a lot of damage. No, I would feel dirty for even trying it.

I'm glad you're so happy with who you are.

 

[Black.Knight]

christians practice magicks under a christian veneer ALL THE TIME.

I see it constantly.

Differing denominations/congregations package them differently,
but packaging is just packaging.

What you say is very interesting. I am curious to find out about those Christian sects, churches, and denominations who actually practice witchcraft, sorcery, and black (or white) magick behind a Christian veneer (ALL THE TIME).

Perhaps you could give a few examples?

 

[jarofthoughts]

What you say is very interesting. I am curious to find out about those Christian sects, churches, and denominations who actually practice witchcraft, sorcery, and black (or white) magick behind a Christian veneer (ALL THE TIME).

Perhaps you could give a few examples?

Try the catholic church.
Crackers and wine transforming into flesh and blood...sounds like magic to me.

 

[blackout]

What you say is very interesting. I am curious to find out about those Christian sects, churches, and denominations who actually practice witchcraft, sorcery, and black (or white) magick behind a Christian veneer (ALL THE TIME).

Perhaps you could give a few examples?

Did you actually BOTHER to read the rest of my posts?
ANY churches that do/have ANY of those things.



(oh, and I neglected to mention "filled with the spirit'ism" fests)

 

[heavenlyarts]

There is a major difference between Jesus' miracles, which are done through faith and prayer, and sorcery which is done through the casting of a spell invoking heathen idol gods, demons and the devil. The reason magic is forbidden is because mankind was not meant to have that power because human beings would abuse and misuse it without God's help and guidance.

However, the servants of God, the prophets like Moses, Elijah and Daniel show God's power and glory through miracles. They have no power on their own, God works through them to win people over to God's heart. When Jesus came with the power of the Holy Spirit, He gave the Holy Spirit to His followers to guide and comfort us, and also we may perform miracles to prove that Christ has power over the natural laws of this world, because God created nature He make break the rules of nature, and Jesus Christ has power over Satan, His power is greater than that of evil sorcery. If someone dies and their loved ones pray to God to resurrect them to life again, if it be God's will they may live again. God never uses His power for evil, and we as his followers will never be allowed to do something evil with the power of the Holy Spirit.


I know how bad Wicca is becasue I once had an interest in it. I was never a goth, don't like black or piercing or tattoos, I am more of a light fairy princess flowery girl,
I think that Gothic dark world of Wicca is very dangerous and deciving. I had an interest in white Wicca once, but I never wanted to betray my Jesus. It was fantasy novels that attracted me, I read about the heroines using magic. I felt guilty for reading about magic and playing computer games with fantasy magic in them, I wrote my own fantasy stories had trouble where magic was concerned.

 

[jarofthoughts]

The reason magic is forbidden is because mankind was not meant to have that power because human beings would abuse and misuse it without God's help and guidance.

But apparently nuclear weapons are fine.

God never uses His power for evil, and we as his followers will never be allowed to do something evil with the power of the Holy Spirit.

So I guess hurricanes, diseases and other disasters are good then?

I think that Gothic dark world of Wicca is very dangerous and deceiving.

But the sex is often great.
Also, on a general level, in my experience goths are usually some of the nicest people you can encounter.

I felt guilty for reading about magic and playing computer games with fantasy magic in them...

Honey, no offence, but if your biggest sin is to read Harry Potter and play WoW you really need to get out more...

 

[jojo50]

i wouldn't know if any denomination out there who claim to serve Jesus,also allows the things that you mention. if there are,Jesus NOR his Father Jehovah acknowledge them. one reason would be because those things wasn't teachings of Jesus. in fact,Jehovah warns of those things in a couple of scriptures.

Levi.19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Duet.18:10-12, There shall not be found among you any one that make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that use divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Acts 16:16-18- And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. (satan made this girl seem as though she was doing nothing wrong. But Paul knew it was of the devil).

everything you mention,the actions,(except for the wicca and freemasonary,I'M excluding since i know nothing about them), but if they apply,so be it. are
unacceptable to the Almighty God. and neither will Jesus acknowledge that group.
so ANY who wants to be a true follower of Jesus,and a servant to his Father Jehovah. has to remove themselves from such. peace

 

[Witch9]

Are there any Christian sects or denominations which would openly tolerate pagan beliefs and practices amongst it's congregations

probably not, but beyond the dogma there are many - and a growing number of - self-identified Christians who practice the Craft

I would appreciate a definitive answer from an authoritative source.

for more than 19,000 sources, Google "Christian Witch"

Blessed Be

 

[Witch9]

How does one account for all the magic, sorcery and mysticism performed by both Moses and Jesus if they are forbidden?

they were working for "God"; most Witches work with the "Goddess", or with God and Goddess, or with multiple deities . . . i.e. beyond the dogma of the many "only right" religions humans have organized