Christianity

[Philda Tressie]

Jesus was not the founder of Christianity. His quest, and that of the Apostles, was to guide both Jews and Gentiles to live a spiritual life in unity with each other and in submission to God. In fact, had all Jews accepted that He is the Messiah, there would not have been Christians at all. My question is: how do Christians view the fact that there now are hundreds of Christian denominations, and not the one unified faith that He strived for?

 

[Windwalker]

I personally do not think Jesus was interested in starting a religion, but rather in exposing the heart behind all religious expression. Religion easily becomes a substitute for a true heart, all clean and righteous on the outside and full of dead man's bones on the inside. I don't believe that some unified faith is possible as people typically define faith as a set of beliefs, that they should all think alike; and that that unity is seen as set of agreed upon beliefs. I however make distinctions between belief, faith, and experience in a religious/spiritual context. I put it like this:

Beliefs are like leaves on the tree that yellow and fall off at the end of the season and are reborn as new, different leaves at the beginning of the next. Faith is the reaching of the tree to the sun. Realization, or direct experience, is seeing and knowing and experiencing the tree itself; the sun, the sap, the ground, the leaves, the air and all that in within and surrounding and moving up through all things, creating and unfolding existence itself. And it is all known within you directly. And finally adaptation is to grow into that as a permanent realized state of your conscious life, your very lived being. That is the result of beliefs held with opened hands, faith realized into direct experience, and direct experience practiced and realized into a transformed reality.

It boils down to people defining themselves by their beliefs, which must then be defended and fought for, versus being defined by the content of their hearts, which can allow for different ways of understanding that faith in themselves. They are not married to 'correct thinking', as thoughts are illusory, whereas the heart is true.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Jesus was not the founder of Christianity. His quest, and that of the Apostles, was to guide both Jews and Gentiles to live a spiritual life in unity with each other and in submission to God. In fact, had all Jews accepted that He is the Messiah, there would not have been Christians at all. My question is: how do Christians view the fact that there now are hundreds of Christian denominations, and not the one unified faith that He strived for?

I don't see any evidence that he wanted only one "Brand" of Followers. he never got round to founding a "Church" so we will never know how he might have done it himself.

The Christian faith embraced many branches and styles of worship with ease, this is a strength not a weakness. His Prime teachings are common to them all.

 

[Sleeppy]

I strongly believe that God knew exactly the outcome of these most important events. His will be done!

 

[ChristineES]

I think that even Jesus knew there would always be divisions. But there are some of us who believe that all Christians are Christians- and that Jesus sees them (or would see them, for non-believers) that way.

 

[Philda Tressie]

I personally do not think Jesus was interested in starting a religion, but rather in exposing the heart behind all religious expression. Religion easily becomes a substitute for a true heart, all clean and righteous on the outside and full of dead man's bones on the inside. I don't believe that some unified faith is possible as people typically define faith as a set of beliefs, that they should all think alike; and that that unity is seen as set of agreed upon beliefs. I however make distinctions between belief, faith, and experience in a religious/spiritual context. I put it like this:

Beliefs are like leaves on the tree that yellow and fall off at the end of the season and are reborn as new, different leaves at the beginning of the next. Faith is the reaching of the tree to the sun. Realization, or direct experience, is seeing and knowing and experiencing the tree itself; the sun, the sap, the ground, the leaves, the air and all that in within and surrounding and moving up through all things, creating and unfolding existence itself. And it is all known within you directly. And finally adaptation is to grow into that as a permanent realized state of your conscious life, your very lived being. That is the result of beliefs held with opened hands, faith realized into direct experience, and direct experience practiced and realized into a transformed reality.

It boils down to people defining themselves by their beliefs, which must then be defended and fought for, versus being defined by the content of their hearts, which can allow for different ways of understanding that faith in themselves. They are not married to 'correct thinking', as thoughts are illusory, whereas the heart is true.

Wow! I love the analogies.Thanks.

 

[Philda Tressie]

I don't see any evidence that he wanted only one "Brand" of Followers. he never got round to founding a "Church" so we will never know how he might have done it himself.

The Christian faith embraced many branches and styles of worship with ease, this is a strength not a weakness. His Prime teachings are common to them all.

The purpose of Jesus' incarnation was not to establish a church or a religion, for that matter. He was only interested in man's Faith in, Obedience to and Love for the One and Only Almighty God.
The existence of a plethora of denominations is the result of man's Pride. Instead of pursuing common ground (with God's help) people broke away from groups that rightly or wrongly did not meet their expectations. A classic example = the founding of the Anglican Church. The different denominations are the products of man's focus on himself and not on God.

 

[Philda Tressie]

I strongly believe that God knew exactly the outcome of these most important events. His will be done!

Of course He knew, but it is not His desire, hence not His will. He knew that Cain would murder Abel; He knew how rebellious the Israelites would be en route to the Promised Land; He knew that His Chosen People would reject the Messiah. All these events His will? I think not!

 

[Philda Tressie]

I think that even Jesus knew there would always be divisions. But there are some of us who believe that all Christians are Christians- and that Jesus sees them (or would see them, for non-believers) that way.

I do not think that Jesus views people in terms of religion. IMO He sees ALL of mankind as God's Creation who has an obligation to LOVE their Creator "with all their heart and all their soul" and to Fear and Worship only Him.

 

[Philda Tressie]

I think Jesus's most important message was that you are god, the kingdom of heaven is within you, and don't follow religious leaders. You're saved when you "become a Jesus."

I strongly disagree! Scriptural proof of your view? Jesus' message was that God is Holy, therefore man should live holy lives in order to obtain the Ultimate Reward, i.e. Eternal Life in the Kingdom of God. We are not and cannot be God, yet we can become LIKE God.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The purpose of Jesus' incarnation was not to establish a church or a religion, for that matter. He was only interested in man's Faith in, Obedience to and Love for the One and Only Almighty God.
The existence of a plethora of denominations is the result of man's Pride. Instead of pursuing common ground (with God's help) people broke away from groups that rightly or wrongly did not meet their expectations. A classic example = the founding of the Anglican Church. The different denominations are the products of man's focus on himself and not on God.

From the official church of England site. . . You will see that its routs are ancient The reformation changed little except the Authority of the Pope.

An Ancient Church, catholic and reformed

the roots of the Church of England go back to the time of the Roman Empire when Christianity entered the Roman province of Britain. Through the influences of St Alban, St Illtud, St Ninian, St Patrick and, later, St Augustine, St Aidan and St Cuthbert, the Church of England developed, acknowledging the authority of the Pope until the Reformation in the 16th century.
The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth I gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it has retained to this day. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'

 

[Philda Tressie]

He has the power (ability) to make it different. He has the opportunity. He doesn't want it. Still, that's what he did?

If God has a higher purpose for it to be this way, then it is ultimately his will. Unless he couldn't do it, but why wouldn't he be able to?

There is nothing that God is not able to do. Though some things happen that are not His will, in His Wisdom he allows it to happen for he knows the hearts and minds of man - who has free will - and only He can see the bigger picture.

 

[gweber41]

Jesus was not the founder of Christianity.

I disagree. Jesus came to live a perfect life and by his sacrifice on the cross and subsequent resurrection usher in the new covenant between God and man (Luke 22:14-23).

His quest, and that of the Apostles, was to guide both Jews and Gentiles to live a spiritual life in unity with each other and in submission to God.

I agree with that. However, obviously not everybody was going to believe, and Jesus knew that. Read some of these verses below and ask yourself whether or not Jesus expected everybody to believe. If you conclude he did not, then I think you are logically forced to conclude that in a sense he came to divide. Those who accepted him would be distinct from both the Jews and the pagans and could be called a religion. Here are the verses:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" -Matthew 10:34

"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead" -Luke 16:31

"They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." -Luke 12:53

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple" -Luke 14:26 (Of course, this does not mean hating your family is a requirement to be a Christian, it just means that following Jesus ought to be so much more important than pleasing your family. So if they reject Christ, you still must follow Christ because he is of infinitely more worth.)

In fact, had all Jews accepted that He is the Messiah, there would not have been Christians at all.

You are right, but they didn't.

My question is: how do Christians view the fact that there now are hundreds of Christian denominations, and not the one unified faith that He strived for?

I think the fact that there are so many denominations means that we have failed as a church throughout history, especially considering denominations have often historically opposed each other. When the disciples revealed a sort of denominational pride to Jesus notice how Jesus responded to that:

John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us." But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against us is for us." -Luke 9:49-50

Then look at Paul's epistles and how he constantly stress the unity of the body of Christ. We are supposed to live together in love and harmony with "one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all..." (Ephesians 4:5-6a). There is a place for denominations when there are significant doctrinal differences, but the fact that there are such widespread differences indicates the problem that we have had. Historically, we have been too caught up in the pride of our own thinking instead of going to Scripture and discerning what that says, and that is why we have so many denominations instead of one unified church.

Having said that though, the Bible still teaches that all the saints in all the world share a common bond through Christ that transcends denominational boundaries. We are united by the Holy Spirit, so let's see beyond our differences and focus on what we have in common: that is one Lord, one faith, one baptism (that is, the baptism of the Holy Spirit), and one God and Fahter of all.

 

[jtartar]

Jesus was not the founder of Christianity. His quest, and that of the Apostles, was to guide both Jews and Gentiles to live a spiritual life in unity with each other and in submission to God. In fact, had all Jews accepted that He is the Messiah, there would not have been Christians at all. My question is: how do Christians view the fact that there now are hundreds of Christian denominations, and not the one unified faith that He strived for?

Philda Tressie,
Pretty wise!! It i for sure that Jesus did not start Christianity. Jesus was a Jew and was required to obey the Mosaic Law Covenant. The Law for anyone teaching different from the Mosaic Law, was death by stoning, Gal 4:4,5, Deut 13:1-15, Matt 5:17-19. Jesus did set the foundation for Christianity!!
On Pentecost of 33CE Christianity was began. From the time that Jesus poured out the Holy Spirit on the small band of Jesus followers, and gave them extraordinary powers, it was clear that God had turned His favor away from the Jews and had, from that time on blessed Christians with His favor. This is the reason that God allowed the early Christians to have this extraordinary power, to make sure that Jews could see clearly that God had not turned His attention to the Christians. None of the Jews that remained in Judaism received the power of the Holy Spirit, only Christians. These powers were only passed to oter persons by the laying on of the hands of the Apostles, Acts 8:17,18, Gal 3:1-3, Acts 2:1-17.
Jesus told the Jews that he had tried to gather the Jews together, but they did not want it, so the Temple of God was abandoned to the Jews, Matt 23:37,38. Jesus said that the Kingdom would be taken away from the Jews and given to a people who would produce it's fruits, Matt 21:42-45.
Only by accepting the Son of God, Jesus the Christ, and his sacrifice to redeem all men could anyone hope to live forever, as is the promise, Acts 4:12, 1Tim 2:4-6, Matt 20:28, John 3:16-19.

 

[ChristineES]

Jesus didn't start Christianity, it is true but He did say:

Mark 16:15 Then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good News.

 

[Pegg]

Jesus was not the founder of Christianity. His quest, and that of the Apostles, was to guide both Jews and Gentiles to live a spiritual life in unity with each other and in submission to God. In fact, had all Jews accepted that He is the Messiah, there would not have been Christians at all. My question is: how do Christians view the fact that there now are hundreds of Christian denominations, and not the one unified faith that He strived for?

its unfortunate that it has become like that, but it should not be unexpected for Christ warned his apostles that it would happen.

Matthew 13:24 Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man (Jesus) that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy (Satan) came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’

Jesus illustration shows that there would be 'weedlike' christians among 'fruitful' christians. This is the situation we seem in christianity today.

 

[Windwalker]

its unfortunate that it has become like that, but it should not be unexpected for Christ warned his apostles that it would happen.

Matthew 13:24 Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man (Jesus) that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy (Satan) came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’

Jesus illustration shows that there would be 'weedlike' christians among 'fruitful' christians. This is the situation we seem in christianity today.

Perhaps the illustration was to show that spirituality has nothing to do with religions, and that individuals can be true "children of God", while in the midst of all these religious denominations around them, despite them. In other words, they still have that truth in them regardless of what denomination they are in, and that the denominations themselves are weeds.

What seems truly amazing is that despite all the choking weeds of religion, these shafts of wheat are still able to grow, despite being choked by the religious who use claims of having the correct interpretation of the Bible as substitutes for a true knowledge of God, which has nothing to do with the "right denomination". True? I've heard so many use this verse to mean instead that their denomination are the True Christians, whereas that is contrary to what I hear here.

 

[savagewind]

Perhaps the illustration was to show that spirituality has nothing to do with religions, and that individuals can be true "children of God", while in the midst of all these religious denominations around them. In other words, they still have that truth in them regardless of what denomination they are in, and that the denominations themselves are weeds.

What seems truly amazing is that despite all the choking weeds of religion, these shafts of wheat are still able to grow, despite being choked by the religious who use claims of having the correct interpretation of the Bible as substitutes for a true knowledge of God which has nothing to do with the "right denomination". True?

Yes! False teachings are weeds. The truth is the wheat. most Christians I have met want to believe the weeds are people. The people who will be destroyed. They use the scripture that says the weeds are "sons" and the wheat means "sons". Sons are male children. Children are people. So therefore wheat and weeds mean people. I have a different understanding which I have shared and by sharing have been "cut off".

 

[Windwalker]

Yes! False teachings are weeds. The truth is the wheat. most Christians I have met want to believe the weeds are people. The people who will be destroyed. They use the scripture that says the weeds are "sons" and the wheat means "sons". Sons are male children. Children are people. So therefore wheat and weeds mean people. I have a different understanding which I have shared and by sharing have been "cut off".

I look at it this way, teachings are understandings. The only real truth is what is realized in the heart, a living truth that produces fruit, because "love works no ill", and "love is the fulfilling of the law". How someone understands God is reflective of their own minds in the light of that truth that either have in themselves, or don't.

Imagine painting a sunset if you've never seen one? That's what religions that claim "We have the Truth!" are like. To truly say you know the Truth, is the most humble thing possible. Your ideas about that are mere fallible thoughts in the face of a light to great to bear with the mind, and to not recognize that means you haven't seen that Light, IMHO.

 

[Wolfborne]

My question is: how do Christians view the fact that there now are hundreds of Christian denominations, and not the one unified faith that He strived for?

I am fine with it, as no religion has a unified faith. There are separate factions in every religion because PEOPLE can't agree on everything 100%. Too many chiefs, not enough indians.