Christians, anything wrong with the following?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, I'm sorry that happened to you.

It matches with what I read of the catechism, too.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It matches with what I read of the catechism, too.

Not any part of the Catechism I've read.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Not any part of the Catechism I've read.

I don't have a copy handy, but I'm pretty sure "no salvation outside the Church" is in there.

 

[Oeste]

I realize some Christians might take exception to it, perhaps as an abuse of a well known theme of Jesus knocking on the door, but aside from that, as a succinct summery of Christian salvation I believe it's spot on.

Any disagreements?

Yes! Most definitely!

I view the original illustration a bit deceptive since we don't see who's with the guy on the other side of the door, feeding this homeowner answers.

So I edited it to share more of a Christian narrative as follows:

It would have been interesting to see what the original illustrator would have shown if asked to show Satan knocking at the door.

No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. (Mat 6:24)

 

[Fire_Monkey]

This is an image (created in 2013 I believe) that first appeared on the Betty Bowers ("America's Best Christian") web site, which has since found itself popping up across the internet---it was recently posted in a thread here on RF. It's a parody of the For Dummies instructional/reference books.

I realize some Christians might take exception to it, perhaps as an abuse of a well known theme of Jesus knocking on the door, but aside from that, as a succinct summery of Christian salvation I believe it's spot on.

Any disagreements?

.

Jesus never knocked.

Rather, he said that if WE knock, the door will be opened. And if we ask, we will be answered. He never had a quote with HIM knocking on a door.
So there is that.

The cartoon is lame.

It depicts Jesus in an erroneous light. He never claimed he would hurt anybody or do violence to them if the did not accept his teachings. And the depiction of Jesus in the drawing is all wrong. Not nearly Middle Eastern-looking enough. Too WASPY. LOL

Other than that, great cartoon! LOL

FM

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes! Most definitely!

I view the original illustration a bit deceptive since we don't see who's with the guy on the other side of the door, feeding this homeowner answers.

So I edited it to share more of a Christian narrative as follows:

View attachment 16511​

It would have been interesting to see what the original illustrator would have shown if asked to show Satan knocking at the door.

No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. (Mat 6:24)

So in your version, which is going on?

- Satan is doing what Jesus wants (which ends up with the same problems as the original)

- Satan is doing what Jesus doesn't want, but Jesus doesn't stop him.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't have a copy handy, but I'm pretty sure "no salvation outside the Church" is in there.

And that's not understand in a literalist fashion.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText (846)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It depicts Jesus in an erroneous light. He never claimed he would hurt anybody or do violence to them if the did not accept his teachings.

According to the Gospels, he claimed that violence would be done to people who didn't accept him. He wasn't specific about who would inflict it, but he made it clear that he agreed with inflicting it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And that's not understand in a literalist fashion.

... by everyone.

... any more.

You can find plenty of popes and theologians through the entire history of the Catholic Church who did interpret it literally.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

... by everyone.

... any more.

You can find plenty of popes and theologians through the entire history of the Catholic Church who did interpret it literally.

And? Theological understandings change and become more nuanced. There's always been different theological emphases in the Church. There's mean, die-hard Traditionalists and liberal universalists, and everyone in between in the Church.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I don't recall Jesus threatening an outcome if his invitation wasn't accepted??

Matthew 13 - Field and Tares

 

[jonathan180iq]

He knocks on the door of all hearts and those who receive Christ into their hearts are completely saved.

...Saved from what?

 

[Fire_Monkey]

According to the Gospels, he claimed that violence would be done to people who didn't accept him. He wasn't specific about who would inflict it, but he made it clear that he agreed with inflicting it.

Wrong.

Show me the quote where he agreed with inflicting violence (which id different from the wrath of God, mind you) upon disbelievers in His words.

Jesus himself never advocated violence. His teachings and his behavior were very non-violent. Read the gospel of Matthew 5-7 for his beliefs which include "turning the other cheek" and not resisting evil people evin when they hurt you.

There are people who will bring up a passage which says "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword". This quote in context is clearly not advocating violence. The context (Matthew 10) is when Jesus is sending his proteges out to preach and their words were going to cause conflict. There are no examples of Jesus using violence.

The one recorded example of one of Jesus' followers using violence happened when Peter cuts of the ear of a soldier about to arrest Jesus. Jesus ends up scolding Peter, healing the soldier and submits willingly to his arrest.
------

 

[Skwim]

It is a parody that doesn't work for two reasons:-

Reason 1.

The parody suggest that the person knocking has power. How can he have power to do something if they don't let him in if he doesn't have power to save them? Surely it is in direct conflict suggesting if they let him in they are saved. And that they are saved from what will happen if they don't let him in.

Reason 2. What does letting him in save them from and how can he do anything to them if no power if they don't let him in.

Not a well thought out parody...

Originally Christ stands at the door of the heart of men. He knocks on the door of all hearts and those who receive Christ into their hearts are completely saved. It stands to reason that the the above does not work when we see the truth of what the door represents...every mans heart and the entrance of accepting Christ is full salvation.

To me it does not insult Christ or the purpose of that belief of him standing at the hearts of men and knocking.

Personally, I don't buy into it. I feel the person who actually produced it, lacked the knowledge and understanding of what it's original meaning is.

Err . . . .The parody isn't of Jesus knocking on the door, but of the For Dummies instructional/reference books.

.

 

[Oeste]

So in your version, which is going on?

- Satan is doing what Jesus wants (which ends up with the same problems as the original)

Satan is doing what Satan chooses to do, Jesus is doing what he chooses to do, and we do the same.

- Satan is doing what Jesus doesn't want, but Jesus doesn't stop him.

He hasn't stopped us from what we want to do either, and some of us, quite frankly, don't want him to.

In my "version", Satan hopes to bring the homeowner further into sin and debauchery, whereas Jesus hopes to bring the homeowner into repentance and glory. In the traditional Christian narrative, these are your only options. There is no third, "mankind strikes out on his own" option. You are either serving God or you are serving someone else.

Unfortunately it can be difficult to determine when we're serving one or the other, which is why we are ultimately judged based on our hearts and not on our deeds. Those who come to know Christ and follow him escape judgement altogether. Whether or not you are actually following Christ (in order to escape judgment) is a decision that Christ, and not your religion, makes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wrong.

Show me the quote where he agreed with inflicting violence (which id different from the wrath of God, mind you) upon disbelievers in His words.

Violence inflicted by God isn't violence? Nope. I'm not agreeing to that.

Jesus himself never advocated violence. His teachings and his behavior were very non-violent.

You mean aside from when he attacked a crowd of people with an improvised bullwhip?

Read the gospel of Matthew 5-7 for his beliefs which include "turning the other cheek" and not resisting evil people evin when they hurt you.

I never claimed that Jesus was consistent, or not a hypocrite.

There are people who will bring up a passage which says "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword". This quote in context is clearly not advocating violence. The context (Matthew 10) is when Jesus is sending his proteges out to preach and their words were going to cause conflict. There are no examples of Jesus using violence.

Except for the bullwhip episode.

And the episide where he drove a herd of pigs to their death, if we're counting violence against animals.

And the fig tree episode, if we're including violence against plants.

The one recorded example of one of Jesus' followers using violence happened when Peter cuts of the ear of a soldier about to arrest Jesus. Jesus ends up scolding Peter, healing the soldier and submits willingly to his arrest.
------

History is absolutely full of violence by followers of Jesus; most of it after Biblical times.

 

[Skwim]

Jesus never knocked.

Rather, he said that if WE knock, the door will be opened. And if we ask, we will be answered. He never had a quote with HIM knocking on a door.
So there is that.

The cartoon is lame.

It depicts Jesus in an erroneous light. He never claimed he would hurt anybody or do violence to them if the did not accept his teachings. And the depiction of Jesus in the drawing is all wrong. Not nearly Middle Eastern-looking enough. Too WASPY. LOL

Other than that, great cartoon! LOL

Revelation 3:20 (ISV)
20 Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone listens to my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he will eat with me.​

 

[Skwim]

A sinner has condemned himself to righteous judgement so Jesus isn't doing anything to them. One brings condemnation on himself.

Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, however, serve as a substitute for the judgement of sin for those who believe it.

It's just that simple.

The caption is not telling the story the way the Bible does. therefore it is wrong.

It isn't meant to tell the story, but is a succinct summery of Christian salvation.

.

 

[Kemosloby]

And you think we can choose to believe in Jesus or not?


Of course we can. Threatening people with death for arbitrary reasons is only something a homicidal maniac would do, even if the way to avoid being murderedis simple.

But in this case, it's not simple. In the Gospels, Jesus talks about he expects most people to fail this test and only a few to pass it: "narrow is the way" and all that.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Regardless of how easy you think the test ought to be, the fact that the author of the test expects - intends? - most people to fail it suggests otherwise.

Analogy time: your neighbour, who knows the kids in the area like to swim in his pool without his permission, fills his pool with piranhas. He posts signs around the pool that clearly say "do not enter - piranhas", but he doesn't build a fence (not one good enough to keep the kids out, anyway). After a while, it's found out that he told people before he filled the pool with piranhas that he expects 10 kids a week to get eaten in it, which is what ended up happening.

What would you think of your neighbour? Does the fact that it's easy to avoid the piranhas absolve him of all blame?


I think you're ignoring pretty major parts of Christian theology to make your conclusion work, but I think I understand what you're saying.

Piranhas gotta eat too. Ultimately, one monkey don't stop the show. If there are a few unbelievers dropping like flies, it's like the beaches of Normandy. They didn't say; oops Jim got shot, stop the war. They pressed on to victory, past Satans artillery which was causing men to lose belief.

 

[RESOLUTION]

...Saved from what?

Well, I would love to explain to you but unforntunately if I told you they might accuse me of preaching or trying to convert. You and I both know I would not be, But why risk it. Just look up Jesus Christ on google and you will you find it.