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Christians:Is Belief in the Trinity Required to Call Someone a Christian?

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
Many Churches do not consider Unitarians to be Christian
This is the official belief of most churches in the UK.
Under the same trinitarian belief neither are the LDS considered Christian.

However ask any Christian in the street and the answer would be much more mixed.
The people usually lead the way......:)

Again what is your definition of what a Christian is ?

I have taken a general question to the streets many times and 99% of the people, including ...."professing" Christians have asnwered it in the same way.
The question was " Are you good enough to go to heaven?

The answer was, "Yes and it was clearly based on self righteousness, the people would claim," I did this or did'nt do that, I've been baptised,confirmed, a member of this church or that church, I'm not as bad as so and so, etc.

It became evident that they were basing there entrance into heaven on some set principals and protocol.
Being Unitarian, baptist, Lutheran, pentecostal Catholic means absolutely nothing to the criteria for entering heaven, despite popular opinion.
At least according to the word of God
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
In response to Katzpur:

Yes, there are a lot of people who follow what Jesus taught without actually believing in the faith. A lot of faiths have very similar beliefs. :)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Maybe having a clear definition of what the word "Christian" means ,would be appropriate right about here...

Christian =Christianos Christian, a follower of Christ
I agree. A Christian is a follower of Christ. It is also a believer in Christ. Who would choose to follow someone he didn't believe in? A Christian must believe that Christ truly is who He claimed to be. He must also trust Christ to be capable of doing what He claimed to be capable of doing -- i.e. helping us return to our Father in Heaven. A Christian must follow Christ. If you were trying to navigate your way through very treacherous terrain and had a guide to help you reach your destination safely, you would surely listen to what He had to say, watch what He did and try to follow His instructions. You couldn't very well say you trusted in your Guide and Teacher if you were not willing to follow His instructions. Knowing what a Christian is is not rocket science. A Christian is a believer in Jesus Christ as the One who has the ability to save him and a follower of Christ's commmandments.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Again what is your definition of what a Christian is ?

I have taken a general question to the streets many times and 99% of the people, including ...."professing" Christians have asnwered it in the same way.
The question was " Are you good enough to go to heaven?

The answer was, "Yes and it was clearly based on self righteousness, the people would claim," I did this or did'nt do that, I've been baptised,confirmed, a member of this church or that church, I'm not as bad as so and so, etc.

It became evident that they were basing there entrance into heaven on some set principals and protocol.
Being Unitarian, baptist, Lutheran, pentecostal Catholic means absolutely nothing to the criteria for entering heaven, despite popular opinion.
At least according to the word of God

A Christian is one who is a follower of Christ... this implies they try to follow his teachings.
Such a description makes no mention of a church or of dogma or "rules" or being Saved.
This is the description I believe to be correct.
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
I agree. A Christian is a follower of Christ. It is also a believer in Christ. Who would choose to follow someone he didn't believe in? A Christian must believe that Christ truly is who He claimed to be. He must also trust Christ to be capable of doing what He claimed to be capable of doing -- i.e. helping us return to our Father in Heaven. A Christian must follow Christ. If you were trying to navigate your way through very treacherous terrain and had a guide to help you reach your destination safely, you would surely listen to what He had to say, watch what He did and try to follow His instructions. You couldn't very well say you trusted in your Guide and Teacher if you were not willing to follow His instructions. Knowing what a Christian is is not rocket science. A Christian is a believer in Jesus Christ as the One who has the ability to save him and a follower of Christ's commmandments.

In all honesty, Christ is in heaven sitting on the right hand throne of God,it's the Holy Spirit that Christ gave us to guide us into all truth.
This truth, power,presence and person of the Holy Spirit is what separates all other teachings and religions from that of Judeo Christianity.


Jhn 16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 13 . Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

...the qualifier is found in this passage
Rom 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

No teacher, prophet, or writings reveal truth about Christ, it is solely the work of the Holy Spirit.
1Jo 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.6. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
In all honesty, Christ is in heaven sitting on the right hand throne of God,it's the Holy Spirit that Christ gave us to guide us into all truth.
I agree.

No teacher, prophet, or writings reveal truth about Christ, it is solely the work of the Holy Spirit.
I believe God has called prophets and apostles and has given them the authority to speak on His behalf. The Holy Ghost testifies to us that what they are inspired to teach us is true.

And none of this has anything whatsoever to do with the OP.
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
I agree.

I believe God has called prophets and apostles and has given them the authority to speak on His behalf. The Holy Ghost testifies to us that what they are inspired to teach us is true.

And none of this has anything whatsoever to do with the OP.


Holy Spirit, third person of the Godhead, yes, I think he has everything to do with this topic, but it's understandable why he is not highyly recognised or discussed on this forum and among other professing Christian Religions, oh sorry,he's mentioned, but seldom, if ever given the recognition he deserves.
Jesus did absolutely nothing without the Holy Spirit's power.
I thought the Holy Ghost was part of the trinity, in fact he is the hand of God on the earth today.
The essence of being a christian is based on whether or not one has his spirit within.
Many religions believe in God and Jesus although their views may vary, they still believe, but JESUS says unless one is born againof the spirit...... is one saved
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Holy Spirit, third person of the Godhead, yes, I think he has everything to do with this topic, but it's understandable why he is not highyly recognised or discussed on this forum and among other professing Christian Religions, oh sorry,he's mentioned, but seldom, if ever given the recognition he deserves.
I frequently speak of the Holy Ghost. I also agree that He is not given the recognition He deserves.

Jesus did absolutely nothing without the Holy Spirit's power.
Here we disagree. I believe everything Jesus did was done by His own power.

I thought the Holy Ghost was part of the trinity, in fact he is the hand of God on the earth today.
I don't believe in the Trinity, but I do believe the Holy Ghost is the third personage in the Godhead. He is a sanctifier, a revelator, a teacher and a comforter.

The essence of being a christian is based on whether or not one has his spirit within.
Agreed. The problem is that some people seem to believe that they have the ability to know what's in someone else's heart.

Many religions believe in God and Jesus although their views may vary, they still believe, but JESUS says unless one is born againof the spirit...... is one saved
But we're not talking about the requirements for salvation. We're talking about whether a person must accept the doctrine of the Trinity to be considered a Christian.
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
Holy Spirit, third person of the Godhead, yes, I think he has everything to do with this topic,

Well, sort of. The specific question is whether a person must believe in the Nicean theology of trinity to be saved. The answer to that is no, even if it's true that

JESUS says unless one is born againof the spirit...... is one saved

by which I think you mean that one is saved only if one is born of the Spirit. To begin with, I'd say that I agree with this as far as it goes. However, I must say that one's salvation does not hinge on understanding exactly how the nuts and bolts of salvation work. If it did, not a single one of us would ever be saved because salvation is, in the end, the profoundest of mysteries. Thankfully, we do not have to believe the trinity to be saved. Nor do we have to understand soteriology AT ALL. What's necessary is to believe in the deity of Jesus the Messiah and in his resurrection.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Why was Jesus baptized? Why did Jesus plead for God to save him from the Crucifixion?
He was baptized out of obedience to His Father. He prayed to His Father in Gethsemane because He looked up to Him, not only as His Father, but as His God.
 

Dunemeister

Well-Known Member
He was baptized out of obedience to His Father. He prayed to His Father in Gethsemane because He looked up to Him, not only as His Father, but as His God.

I think you're missing the point, Katz. If Jesus had it in his own power to withstand the agony of crucifixion, he wouldn't have needed to pray for hours in Gethsemane and angels needn't have ministered to him in the desert. The prayer of Gethsemane show us the humanness of Jesus and his dependency on the Holy Spirit (whom he received at baptism). But there's also this:

Matthew 12:28 said:
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

Jesus' work of exorcism was not wrought merely by his power. He was not sufficient. He cast out demons by the spirit of God.

In a way, I'd expect Mormons to welcome this observation, emphasizing as it does Jesus' temporal humanity and forcing traditional Christians to justify their claims of his temporal deity.
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
I frequently speak of the Holy Ghost. I also agree that He is not given the recognition He deserves.
...or the recognition of power that transforms and sustains a persons Christian life.
2Ti 3:5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Here we disagree. I believe everything Jesus did was done by His own power
This is not about what we agree or disagree on , but based on what scripture says,
Jesus only had what the father gave him..that is while he was here on earth.
Jesus gave up a feww things to become like a man!!
Jhn 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 5:19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jhn 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;



Holy Spirit in Jesus Christ

The Birth of Jesus By the Holy Ghost

Mat 1:18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Spirit Decends Upon Jesus
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Jesus Led into Wilderness by the Spirit
Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Jesus Returned from Wilderness in the Power of The Spirit

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

Jesus Annointed by the Spirit to do Miracles, preach, heal, restore

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,


Jesus Has The Spirit To Cast Out Demons

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Jesus Went To The Cross by The Spirit

Hbr 9:14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself withoutspot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Jesus Raised From The Dead By The Spirit

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

As it was for Christ, so it is for the believer. A Christian only has the power given them by the Holy Ghost
1Cr 2:10But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Act 1:8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


I don't believe in the Trinity, but I do believe the Holy Ghost is the third personage in the Godhead. He is a sanctifier, a revelator, a teacher and a comforter.
What don't you believe about it ? Is it the literal word that you don't believe ?
Despite the word "trinity" God nevertheless is portrayed as a triune being personified as the Father ,Son, Holy Ghost.
It's one thing for someone to claim disbelief in the literal word " trinity" but quite another to attempt to disbelieve the 3 persons of the Godhead.
...and I know you are'nt doing that, but if it's just the word we are talking about, it's not worthy to be disputed.

Agreed. The problem is that some people seem to believe that they have the ability to know what's in someone else's heart.
What people ?


But we're not talking about the requirements for salvation. We're talking about whether a person must accept the doctrine of the Trinity to be considered a Christian.
I thought a Christian is one who has received salvation from the Lord !!!!
I think the key word you used here is "doctrine"
Is the doctrine of the trinity the same as the doctrine of the Godhead.
Let's replace the word "trinity" with " 3 persons of the Godhead" and rephrase the question and not get caught up in semantics
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
Well, sort of. The specific question is whether a person must believe in the Nicean theology of trinity to be saved. The answer to that is no, even if it's true that
I whole heartedly agree with you !!!
It's like any church who has a statement of beliefs on their bulletin's or website.
It's not believing in what any man or group of men state in their manifesto's, but what God says about his son.



by which I think you mean that one is saved only if one is born of the Spirit. To begin with, I'd say that I agree with this as far as it goes. However, I must say that one's salvation does not hinge on understanding exactly how the nuts and bolts of salvation work. If it did, not a single one of us would ever be saved because salvation is, in the end, the profoundest of mysteries. Thankfully, we do not have to believe the trinity to be saved. Nor do we have to understand soteriology AT ALL. What's necessary is to believe in the deity of Jesus the Messiah and in his resurrection
...again, I am on the same page with you here !! ...come like children

1Cr 1:26For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:That no flesh should glory in his presence.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I think you're missing the point, Katz.
I don't. I think I simply believe differently than you.

If Jesus had it in his own power to withstand the agony of crucifixion, he wouldn't have needed to pray for hours in Gethsemane and angels needn't have ministered to him in the desert. The prayer of Gethsemane show us the humanness of Jesus and his dependency on the Holy Spirit (whom he received at baptism).
The Latter-day Saints will disagree with you to some extent on this issue. We believe that Christ's suffering culminated on Calvary, where He gave His life for us. We don't believe it started on Calvary, though, or even with the preliminary scourging and torture. We believe that it was in Gethsemane that He took upon Himself the sins of the world. Many, many people besides Christ endured death by crucifixion. It was an agonizing way to die, to be sure, but it would not have been any harder on Him than on any other person. Having to assume the guilt associated with our sins was another matter. When He pleaded with His Father to remove the cup, and asked if there was any other way His mission could be accomplished, it was with his suffering in Gethsemane in mind, more than with His upcoming crucifixion. It was in Gethsemane where He needed the support of an angel, not on Calvary.

Jesus' work of exorcism was not wrought merely by his power. He was not sufficient. He cast out demons by the spirit of God.
I was actually referring to His being able to take up His own life again after having been in the tomb for three days. He said that He had the power in Himself to do that. The Holy Ghost obviously played a significant part in all of the miracles associated with Jesus' ministry. I wasn't trying to downplay that.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Let's start with your last statement, Roli.
Let's replace the word "trinity" with " 3 persons of the Godhead" and rephrase the question and not get caught up in semantics
That would be a good starting place. I agree that semantics often gets in the way of our understanding one another. Obviously, the concept of a Godhead differs in some respects from the concept of a Trinity. As a Latter-day Saint, I believe my understanding of the nature of God and the relationship of the members of the Godhead to one another to be correct. That doesn't mean that I don't believe Trinitarians to be Christians. A correct understanding of the details of the Trinity versus the Godhead is far less important, in my opinion, than living a Christ-centered life.

...or the recognition of power that transforms and sustains a persons Christian life.
I agree that it is through the power of the Holy Ghost that we are transformed, that we experience what the Book of Mormon describes as "a mighty change of heart." We are saying much the same thing.

Jesus only had what the father gave him..that is while he was here on earth.
Jesus gave up a feww things to become like a man!!
I have no argument with this statement. As a matter of fact, the Latter-day Saints are totally subordinationist in our theology. We believe that the Father is greater than the Son. That doesn't mean that the Father is "more loving, more knowledgable, more powerful, more compassionate" or anything else than the Son. It simply means that the Father was in a position to impart these attributes to the Son, not the other way around.
What don't you believe about it ? Is it the literal word that you don't believe ?
Despite the word "trinity" God nevertheless is portrayed as a triune being personified as the Father ,Son, Holy Ghost.
It's one thing for someone to claim disbelief in the literal word " trinity" but quite another to attempt to disbelieve the 3 persons of the Godhead.
...and I know you are'nt doing that, but if it's just the word we are talking about, it's not worthy to be disputed.
It's what the word implies and the language of the Creeds. Christ's Apostles seemed to me to be quite capable of understanding who He was without the help of Greek philosophical thought. What was good enough for them is good enough for us today, in my opinion.

What people ?
People who imply that Latter-day Saints aren't Christians, for starters.

I thought a Christian is one who has received salvation from the Lord !!!!
Okay, and I thought it was someone who looks to Jesus Christ for salvation and to tries to obey Christ's commandments.
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
Let's start with your last statement, Roli.
That would be a good starting place. I agree that semantics often gets in the way of our understanding one another. Obviously, the concept of a Godhead differs in some respects from the concept of a Trinity. As a Latter-day Saint, I believe my understanding of the nature of God and the relationship of the members of the Godhead to one another to be correct
.
I presume this topic will never be fully clear to us all ,but it is certainly clear what scripture discloses concerning other doctrines including the "triune being of God or Godhead which is manifested in three distinct, yet at the same time, individual persons.

But when there are so many opposing doctrinal teachings that contridict what scripture says concerning such topics as the nature of God, it would seem to me to make things that much more confusing and conflicting.
So I think it is the source and volitity of other doctrines, books, writings that need to be examined first and compared with the truth of scriptures....for example, if one of your books teach a certain view concerning God,ie: "the father has a body of flesh and bone as tangible as mans" D&C 130:22 ...while scripture claims an opposing view,
Jhn 4:24God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
2Cr 3:17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

...now if God is flesh and bone, how can he enter his own heaven..it's contridictory.
1Cr 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
....it must line up with what scriptures say, how else could it be considered Christian teaching if it conflicts with what Jesus or all the writer's of the bible have said,it's a double standard and God is not the author of confusion.

How difficult it must be to accurately believe something with two opposing views.
So if this is the case with minor doctrinal teachings of the bible, how can we move forward to investigate more elaborate doctrines of scripture.
Here's another,ie:"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115)
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547)

Mat 1:18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

I am sure you do have your convictions and beliefs of the nature of God and I appreciate your position and respect your views,but my confusion with this is that your other books don't line up with what the bible teaches, so it's understandable how opposing views we wil have

That doesn't mean that I don't believe Trinitarians to be Christians. A correct understanding of the details of the Trinity versus the Godhead is far less important, in my opinion, than living a Christ-centered life.
What is Christ centered mean to you?
If I say that God is like us, having flesh and bone, have I not just declared that God is mortal
1Ti 1:17Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

If I claim Jesus had natural intercourse to conceive, have I just made God and the prophet out to be a liar
If I claim Christ is the brother of Lucifer, is this Christ centered. This accusation or belief is no different to how Christ defended himself aginst those religious leaders who actually accused him of being of satan.
Mat 12:24But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

I agree that it is through the power of the Holy Ghost that we are transformed, that we experience what the Book of Mormon describes as "a mighty change of heart." We are saying much the same thing.
Saying one thing and believing things that are contrary to scripture is quite another, but I don't think you see this.

People who imply that Latter-day Saints aren't Christians, for starters.
I won't make such a statement, but it begs the question, " what defines a christian"
It has gone both ways, we as well are not considered Christian by many Mormons because we don't accept the Mormon teachings.



Okay, and I thought it was someone who looks to Jesus Christ for salvation and to tries to obey Christ's commandments
The religious leaders looked for the Christ and obeyed the commands, but did'nt much accept what they got and therfore became enimies of Christ as is clear in scripture.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I presume this topic will never be fully clear to us all ,but it is certainly clear what scripture discloses concerning other doctrines including the "triune being of God or Godhead which is manifested in three distinct, yet at the same time, individual persons.

But when there are so many opposing doctrinal teachings that contridict what scripture says concerning such topics as the nature of God, it would seem to me to make things that much more confusing and conflicting.
So I think it is the source and volitity of other doctrines, books, writings that need to be examined first and compared with the truth of scriptures....for example, if one of your books teach a certain view concerning God,ie: "the father has a body of flesh and bone as tangible as mans" D&C 130:22 ...while scripture claims an opposing view,
Jhn 4:24God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
2Cr 3:17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

...now if God is flesh and bone, how can he enter his own heaven..it's contridictory.
1Cr 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
....it must line up with what scriptures say, how else could it be considered Christian teaching if it conflicts with what Jesus or all the writer's of the bible have said,it's a double standard and God is not the author of confusion.

How difficult it must be to accurately believe something with two opposing views.
So if this is the case with minor doctrinal teachings of the bible, how can we move forward to investigate more elaborate doctrines of scripture.
Here's another,ie:"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115)
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547)
Mat 1:18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

I am sure you do have your convictions and beliefs of the nature of God and I appreciate your position and respect your views,but my confusion with this is that your other books don't line up with what the bible teaches, so it's understandable how opposing views we wil have


What is Christ centered mean to you?
If I say that God is like us, having flesh and bone, have I not just declared that God is mortal
1Ti 1:17Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

If I claim Jesus had natural intercourse to conceive, have I just made God and the prophet out to be a liar
If I claim Christ is the brother of Lucifer, is this Christ centered. This accusation or belief is no different to how Christ defended himself aginst those religious leaders who actually accused him of being of satan.
Mat 12:24But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.


Saying one thing and believing things that are contrary to scripture is quite another, but I don't think you see this.


I won't make such a statement, but it begs the question, " what defines a christian"
It has gone both ways, we as well are not considered Christian by many Mormons because we don't accept the Mormon teachings.




The religious leaders looked for the Christ and obeyed the commands, but did'nt much accept what they got and therfore became enimies of Christ as is clear in scripture.
Roli, you are not going to start backing me into a corner over why you believe Mormons are not Christians. I'm simply not going to go there, no matter how civilly you may present your case. I'm sorry for you to have wasted your time. I'm sorry that you still, after all our discussions (here and in multiple other threads), can't seem to resist the compulsion to distort and misrepresent LDS beliefs and to refuse to hear only what you want to hear. I think that most of all, I'm sorry I'm such a big sucker as to keep thinking that maybe this time will be different.

With respect to this last post, I'm going to make just one statement and let it go at that. Mormons consider non-LDS Christians to be Christians. We don't say that Catholics, Lutherans, Batptists, or any other denominations aren't Christians just because they don't believe everything we do. That is just one more example of you either failing to understand what has been repeated here time and time again or intentionally bearing false witness. I dont' know which it is, and at this point I really don't care.
 
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moorea944

Well-Known Member
ChristineES, good question that you posted. sorry i came into this post late.

would like to try to answer for you.

The dictionary states that a "christian" is someone who believes in and base his or hers beliefs on the teaching of Christ. it has nothing to do with the trinity or anything else on that topic.

if you believe in christ then i would take it that your a christian.

You are right though that the bible doesnt teach about the trinity. that was made up by man years later for misinterpeting the bible. the bible CLEARLY states that there is one God and one Christ. the Holy Spirit is part of God , like the sun's rays, the spirit comes FROM God.

1 TIM..... "there is one God and a mediator between God and man, the Christ Jesus"

Jesus prays to "his" father, not to himself!!! "thy will be done", means......."your" will, not my will be done.

i wonder if people close their eyes when they read verses like that.........
 

Ditcher161

New Member
Yes you do have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian as it is one of the fundmental Beliefs.

Most of the time when talking about God we are talking about the essence of God. when we talk about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit we are talking about the self distinctions of the God head. In other words there is One What and three Who's.

Also the Bible clearly states that there are three persons in God (1Corinthians 8:6, Acts 5: 3-4)

In 1 Timothy 2;5 Where it says: "5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". All this is saying is that Jesus is the mediator, He was fully God and fully man. There is another verse that points to his Godhood 2 Corinthians 5:19 "19 For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation." Jesus had to be fully God and fully man because that was the only way that we could be reconciled.

But the arguement goes as follows:
1) If you are a Christian you believe the Bible is the word of God
2) God is perfect therefore he cannot lie.
3)The Bible teaches the concept of the Trinity
4) Therefore if you do not believe in the Trinity then you cannot believe the Bible is the Word of God
 
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