Knowledge of what happens when entering heaven or hell . It raeally is quite plane when you read it so I don't know why you are playing games
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Christians: is there a hell?
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
Knowledge of what happens when entering heaven or hell . It raeally is quite plane when you read it so I don't know why you are playing games
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Yes really. Jesus actually talked way more about hell then he did about heaven.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Can I get some scripture references please? Hell, as opposed to the OT Gahenna? Hell was not an OT thing. IMO, Zoroastrianism god/devil, heaven/hell was an influence on the NT.
Also, Jesus may not have thought of the kingdom of heaven as a future event somewhere else. He stressed it being here, now, with and within us. Again, OT vs NT thinking.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Revelation 2:11 ESV / 3 helpful votes
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’
Hell
Matthew 25:41 ESV / 10 helpful votes
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 23:33 ESV / 10 helpful votes
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
Matthew 10:28 ESV / 10 helpful votes
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 25:46 ESV / 9 helpful votes
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 5:22 ESV / 9 helpful votes
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
John 3:16 ESV / 8 helpful votes
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Luke 16:1-31 ESV / 8 helpful votes
He also said to the disciples, “There was a rich man who had a manager, and charges were brought to him that this man was wasting his possessions. And he called him and said to him, ‘What is this that I hear about you? Turn in the account of your management, for you can no longer be manager.’ And the manager said to himself, ‘What shall I do, since my master is taking the management away from me? I am not strong enough to dig, and I am ashamed to beg. I have decided what to do, so that when I am removed from management, people may receive me into their houses.’ So, summoning his master's debtors one by one, he said to the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ ...
Mark 9:43 ESV / 8 helpful votes
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
Matthew 18:9 ESV / 8 helpful votes
And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
Matthew 13:50 ESV / 7 helpful votes
And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mark 9:48 ESV / 6 helpful votes
‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
Jude 1:7 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Luke 16:19-31 ESV / 5 helpful votes
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. ...
Matthew 22:13 ESV / 5 helpful votes
Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Matthew 12:40 ESV / 5 helpful votes
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 8:12 ESV / 5 helpful votes
While the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Revelation 1:18 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
Jude 1:13 ESV / 4 helpful votes
Wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Luke 16:23 ESV / 4 helpful votes
And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
That's just a sample.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Some of these are not spoken by Jesus though, are they? I will check my Bible and study these. I did mention a couple, but not sure they automatically mean an eternal hell or just Gahenna. Again, it will be fun to look into these.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Yes, but what type of knowledge, ChristineM?
As I explained above, a priori knowledge is knowledge that is acquired independently of any particular experience, as opposed to a posteriori knowledge, which is derived from experience. Have a look here:
Gettier Problems | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
The Justified-True-Belief Analysis of Knowledge
Henry is driving in the countryside, looking at objects in fields. He sees what looks exactly like a barn. Accordingly, he thinks that he is seeing a barn. Now, that is indeed what he is doing.
But what he does not realize is that the neighborhood contains many fake barns — mere barn facades that look like real barns when viewed from the road.
And if he had been looking at one of them, he would have been deceived into believing that he was seeing a barn. Luckily, he was not doing this.
Consequently, his belief is justified and true. But is it knowledge?
***
(No ‘games’ on my part, ChristineM. I am having a conversation with you. Would you rather leave the conversation?)
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I don't believe that Jesus did not care for the rich; I do believe that He did not care for the selfish.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
You are using a good translation, Wildswanderer!
It doesn't matter, the quote was made as and can ne read as a statement of fact which is total bull
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
The second law of thermodynamics, says that the entropy of the universe has to increase with time.
Entropy is connected to free energy by the equation G=H-TS; where G is the total free energy, H is enthalpy, T is temperature and S is entropy.
As S or entropy increases via the 2nd law, G gets smaller due to the minus sign; -TS. Since S has to get larger and larger, via the 2nd law, the free energy of the universe has to get smaller and smaller. The universe is aging.
Conservation of energy says that energy can change form into something else, but it cannot be destroyed. Therefore, this lost free energy, due to entropy increasing has to be conserved, but it is no longer a part of the material universe, as part of its free energy budget. S has to keeping increasing, implying less and less universal free energy. Free energy is useable energy which gets less and less.
The question becomes where is this lost free energy being conserved, seeing it is no longer directly involved with the universe's useable energy budget?
This question is where the ideas of heaven and hell seem to have a basis. In classic thinking, Heaven and Hell are not material places. They are more like ethereal places in another dimension of existence that is not directly connected to the material universe. Yet, they are connected due to energy conservation. It is like energy in a lock box, that is not available to use. But what happens inside the lock box?
I have no proof of heaven and hell, but this seems possible based on the conserved energy existing in parallel to the universe It came from lost free energy and the information implicit of entropic states; recorded in the annals of time; conserved.
The brain expends about 90% of its metabolic energy pumping and exchanging cations; sodium and potassium, to create a membrane potential. This segregation and concentration of these two cations, is lowering the ionic entropy at the neuron membrane, since these ions would prefer blend into a uniform solution; 2nd law. The brain is expending a lot of energy to lower entropy by segregating them. The 2nd law reverses this; neurons fire, and the ionic currents need to flow in ways to increase the entropy.
The net affect is the human brain and consciousness is adding to pool of lost energy, with our memories involved in the process, adding to the pool of conserved lost energy; lock box. This suggests the essence of us is conserved in the lost free energy pool. If heaven and hell existed our generated entropic quanta; memories, would find where they belong based on potential.
Conceptually, we may not go to heaven or hell, in whole. Rather parts of our memory would segregate; like attracts like, so parts of us may go to each place. If the majority of our memory ends up in either realm, that will be where we will become conscious. The minority of memory, that goes the other place, will no longer be conscious, but will be there to help support the other realm. There is little wasted energy that way. The Bible suggests the grain separates from the weeds.
Entropy is connected to free energy by the equation G=H-TS; where G is the total free energy, H is enthalpy, T is temperature and S is entropy.
As S or entropy increases via the 2nd law, G gets smaller due to the minus sign; -TS. Since S has to get larger and larger, via the 2nd law, the free energy of the universe has to get smaller and smaller. The universe is aging.
Conservation of energy says that energy can change form into something else, but it cannot be destroyed. Therefore, this lost free energy, due to entropy increasing has to be conserved, but it is no longer a part of the material universe, as part of its free energy budget. S has to keeping increasing, implying less and less universal free energy. Free energy is useable energy which gets less and less.
The question becomes where is this lost free energy being conserved, seeing it is no longer directly involved with the universe's useable energy budget?
This question is where the ideas of heaven and hell seem to have a basis. In classic thinking, Heaven and Hell are not material places. They are more like ethereal places in another dimension of existence that is not directly connected to the material universe. Yet, they are connected due to energy conservation. It is like energy in a lock box, that is not available to use. But what happens inside the lock box?
I have no proof of heaven and hell, but this seems possible based on the conserved energy existing in parallel to the universe It came from lost free energy and the information implicit of entropic states; recorded in the annals of time; conserved.
The brain expends about 90% of its metabolic energy pumping and exchanging cations; sodium and potassium, to create a membrane potential. This segregation and concentration of these two cations, is lowering the ionic entropy at the neuron membrane, since these ions would prefer blend into a uniform solution; 2nd law. The brain is expending a lot of energy to lower entropy by segregating them. The 2nd law reverses this; neurons fire, and the ionic currents need to flow in ways to increase the entropy.
The net affect is the human brain and consciousness is adding to pool of lost energy, with our memories involved in the process, adding to the pool of conserved lost energy; lock box. This suggests the essence of us is conserved in the lost free energy pool. If heaven and hell existed our generated entropic quanta; memories, would find where they belong based on potential.
Conceptually, we may not go to heaven or hell, in whole. Rather parts of our memory would segregate; like attracts like, so parts of us may go to each place. If the majority of our memory ends up in either realm, that will be where we will become conscious. The minority of memory, that goes the other place, will no longer be conscious, but will be there to help support the other realm. There is little wasted energy that way. The Bible suggests the grain separates from the weeds.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I see. In that case I shall ask the same question you asked at the beginning of this very strange back-and-forth“:--
"I wonder how ChristineM knows this?"
?
You posted the quote, don't try putting it on me
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
"No one is putting anything on you, ChristineM.
Here is your quote:
"...the quote was made as and can ne read as a statement of fact which is total bull".
Tell me, is the above a statement of fact?
Here is the quote from Lewis.
"To enter heaven is to become more human than you ever succeeded in being on earth; to enter hell is to be banished from humanity. What is cast (or casts itself) into hell is not a man: it is 'remains.'"
Is the above a statement of fact?
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Which faith is this, dannerz?
Yes, and?
It is written as though there is knowledge.
I.e.
To enter heaven is to become more human
...
to enter hell is to be banished from humanity
...
What is cast (or casts itself) into hell is not a man: it is 'remains.'
Omit one vital phrase " i believe"
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Do you always include the vital phrase "I believe" when you make a statement?
I believe i do when its needed to prevent confusion
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
"...the quote was made as and can ne read as a statement of fact which is total bull". ChristineM
So you would not place "I believe" before your quote above?
dannerz
Member
I call it Right Reason. It's a derived faith from multiple sources. Omnism.