That's not going to happen though, is it?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christians: is there a hell?
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
That's not going to happen though, is it?
Mainstream Christianity has always taught that those who die outside the grace of God will be condemned to an eternity of conscious punishment in Hell. Five minutes of research would tell you that.
Catholicism teaches that an act of perfect contrition suffices to be forgiven of all sin, but the flipside is that the deeper into sin you fall the less capable of contrition you become. In practice a serial killer would be exceptionally unlikely to repent and would therefore almost certainly end up in Hell.
Atheism as a sect of Protestantism is once again validated.
Non-Protestant Christianity rejects the notion that any given person can be totally assured of their salvation while still alive on Earth. To be assured of salvation you have to die in a state of grace. Far from self serving its actually quite scary to contemplate the possibility that one might end up in Hell.
I'm being pedantic but there are only four cardinal virtues. The seven virtues are the capital virtues.
Colt
Well-Known Member
“The wages of Sin is death.”
Those who reject salvation are destroyed, they don’t resurrect in heaven.
Yet all sinners supposedly go to the same place?
ElishaElijah
Return
Yes,
It’s all through the Bible:
““But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’ And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.’ And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’”
Mark 9:42-48 NKJV
The confusion seems to be what exactly gets a believer inside the "grace of God". Obviously the Lutherans and Catholics of the Third Reich were not concerned with their acts against the Jewish populations of Europe. Most Christians would consider genocide to likley fall OUTSIDE of the grace of God. Christians have been very good at believing whatever they want, and justifying it in whatever way serves their earthly purposes.
The odd thing is that it seems Christians over the millennia don't believe in God at all, as they don't seem fearful of hell as a consequence of their criminal behaviors. It's as if Christians, and even many Muslims, are atheists. If I was a believer I would bend over backwards following a moral code to make sure I lived and died in a state of Grace.
We have to wonder how often this perfect contrition happens. I would guess it is rare. Hell would seem more appropriate for extreme criminals, not your kid brother who is a good guy but isn't convinced that Christian doctrine is true.
This makes no sense.
That's Christianity for you, it is a religion of "anything goes". Whatever kind of person you are you can find a form of Christianity that fits you. If you are liberal and tolerant of gays, there are Universalist churches. If you are moderate there's a church like Methodists, and even Catholicism if you want the pagentry and ritual. And if you are right wing there's the Baptist and evangelical churches. Even if you are racist there's the KKK, which claims to be a Christian organization. There is no narrow truth in Christianity, it is a broad set of options that anyone can pick. One thing Christianity has done well is market the idea of hell to scare followers into submission and alliance. But as I noted, there is no set moral norms for Christians to follow, so it is "anything goes" including genocide and terrorizing minorities.
That's interesting. That would be a good thread to start, discussing the various virtues and vices.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nope, not in most cases, although it does happen in some cases.
Jack the Ripper will not go to any heaven. He will just go to a really bad purgatory and then be reborn back on Earth - this cycle will continue until he corrects his ways. But there is no eternal hell.Well...thinking that Jack the Ripper deserves Heaven as reward for his trophies...well..
is a bit twisted...isn't it?
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
You are aware of my personal beliefs about the afterlife, which is why I disregard the Christian doctrine of heaven and hell. Based on my experiences and knowledge of the afterlife, I believe that the spirit world will be very different from what a lot of Christians believe and expect it to be. However, I know a few Christians who are spiritualists, and their beliefs about the afterlife are similar to mine.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
You don't? I knew something good would happen today! <sings and dances around> I'm going to heaven, hooray hooray hooray!
Not sure it's something i would rejoice about.
For one think it would be full of smug pious people saying "i told you so"
Alien826
No religious beliefs
People always talk about serial killers as if they were the epitome of evil. I tend to see them as mentally ill as much as anything, which is not to minimize the suffering they cause, but might go to mitigation of punishment. Come to think about it, lots of us have bad tendencies that we can only partially control. What about a sociopath? He or she has no conscience, no ability to relate to the feelings of others. Why punish such a person? They never had a chance to behave morally.
This may be a bit off topic, but to me a truly loving god would concentrate more on salvaging the lost, rather than punishing them. And if someone is beyond even god's ability to cure, then a quick and painless extinction, with regret. It's like a rabid dog. The poor thing isn't responsible for its condition but we can't currently cure it, so we kill it so it can do no more harm.
I'd worship that god. Maybe I will, there's always hope.
This may be a bit off topic, but to me a truly loving god would concentrate more on salvaging the lost, rather than punishing them. And if someone is beyond even god's ability to cure, then a quick and painless extinction, with regret. It's like a rabid dog. The poor thing isn't responsible for its condition but we can't currently cure it, so we kill it so it can do no more harm.
I'd worship that god. Maybe I will, there's always hope.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
You've missed the point. Non-believers can go too! There would be lots of us to associate with. And the smug pious crowd would be too busy mourning the loss of their superiority to bother with us.
<Resumes singing and dancing>
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
As you know, I also disagree with the Christian doctrine of heaven and hell.
There is a really funny story a Baha'i once told me about the Christian expectations of heaven. If you want I can post it.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I would like to hear it.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
You're happy about going to Heaven? Why ?
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
If there are smug pious people saying "i told you so", it is not Heaven.
"To enter heaven is to become more human than you ever succeeded in being on earth; to enter hell is to be banished from humanity. What is cast (or casts itself) into hell is not a man: it is 'remains.'"
C. S. Lewis
It isn't whether "hell exists or not" that is the issue. Non-Christian usually makes it a big issue.
Jesus didn't go around preaching or telling us "preach 'Hello exists"".
what he told us to preach was "the Kingdom has come unto you" -
Most people don't know what exactly happens in Hell and how long it will exist.