Christians: Joint heirs with jesus - what does it mean?

[S-word]

According to the Bible there will be a judgement after death....

Judas walked with Jesus but at the time of his betrayal do you think he would have received his inheirtance? And Peter even though he was the one to whom Jesus said, "Upon this Rock I will build my church", do you think at the time of his denial that he would have recieved his inheirtance? Or would it have been after he was restored and renewed and realized what he had done.....Then there was King David who was called a Man after God's own heart....but he too, sinned and after he lived through much anguish and heartache was finally restored by God....In the span of time whether long or short that someone turns from God I believe they are in danger of losing that inheirtance......

According to most so called christians, Judas is the epitome of evil, and they would see him burn forever in the fires of hell. And yet, if they were carried in the spirit to the place of the last supper and could see that the resolve of Judas to do that which he had planned to do was weakening, and that it would take only one word from them to divert him from his apparent insane course of action, would they do it?


Or knowing that Peter was accused by Jesus as a satan for even suggesting that he he didn't have to die, and that it was the purpose and plan of God that Jesus should be handed over to the Jews who killed him by letting the sinful Romans crucify him, would they not intervene?


But for they, who refused to intervene, knowing full well that they could have stopped him, then they would be as guilty as he and would be Judged as they have judged him.


Would you, given the opportunity to stop Judas from handing Jesus over to the Jews, do so? See Acts 2: 22, "In accordance with his own plan God had already decided that Jesus would be handed over to you; and you killed him by letting sinfull men crucify him."

 

[Muffled]

I have been researching the meaning of Paraclete because someone at church is espousing R.C. Sprouls definition of a legal advocate. I looked up the Greek and found it was made of two words: Para and Kletos. Para basically means "with" but in the sense of being joined to. For instance the Parachute is joined to a persons body.
Kletos can mean many things but the word as it appears in Ekklesia means the called out ones. So basically the Paraclete means He who is conjoined with the called out ones.

True God is not dead but Jesus did die. He said that He would have to die in order for the Paraclete to come. In that sense the Paraclete is part of our inheritance. However when we have the Paraclete we also have Jesus, we are joined to Him also (and to the Father, John 14)

As to the resurrected body that remains a promise that does not require a further death. It is as though Jesus had reached His majority and could inherit the resurrected body but we have not yet reached our majority so the resurrection of the body is placed in trust until we do reach it.

The Mormon church doesn't have anything that I don't already have in Jesus and many things that I feel are contrary to God's will. They can call their gospel the true gospel all they want but I will stick with the Gospel of Jesus. They are quite obviously not the same thing.

 

[Heneni]

As to the resurrected body that remains a promise that does not require a further death. It is as though Jesus had reached His majority and could inherit the resurrected body but we have not yet reached our majority so the resurrection of the body is placed in trust until we do reach it.

Hi Muffled!

Do you believe then, that the inheritance is a resurrected body?

Im dont quite follow...

Heneni

 

[sojourner]

Hello.

I would like to discuss what it means to be a joint heir with jesus.

1. Who are joint heirs with jesus?
2. What does a joint heir get?
3. Can a joint heir loose their inheritance?
4. What is the scope of the inheritance?
5 What does one do with the inheritance?
6. When does a joint heir with jesus inherit?

I would like to seperate the concept of salvation from joint heirship. Since i dont think that salvation is the recieving of an inheritance, but rather a rescue mission.

Any thoughts and ideas?

Heneni

1 All of us.
2 God's realm.
3 No.
4 God's realm.
5 Become part of it.
6 Right now.

 

[Muffled]

Hi Muffled!

Do you believe then, that the inheritance is a resurrected body?

Im dont quite follow...

Heneni

I Cor. 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.

The kernal of corn is planted and a corn plant emerges from the ground. It then produces more kernals in the likeness of the first kernal and those planted come to fruition as corn plants. The reason this happens is that the new kernals inherited from the original.

We will be raised up in a new body because we inheirt from Jesus.

 

[Heneni]

I Cor. 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.

The kernal of corn is planted and a corn plant emerges from the ground. It then produces more kernals in the likeness of the first kernal and those planted come to fruition as corn plants. The reason this happens is that the new kernals inherited from the original.

We will be raised up in a new body because we inheirt from Jesus.

Arent you the party pooper!

LOL.

Interesting perspective. So then you say we inherit christ. Thats pretty cool anyways, but do you think that is the full scope of the inheritance?. If god handed everything over to jesus, then surely he did not hand him a resurrected body only.

But maybe im just in need of further explaining yeh?

Heneni

 

[FFH]

Isaiah 61: 10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

There's a difference between being saved and being righteous.

 

[Heneni]

Isaiah 61: 10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

There's a difference between being saved and being righteous.

Why do you think that we are 'clothed' with salvation but 'covered' with righteousness.

Seems like salvation is clothes for the naked and righteousness is a covering over that.

What you say?

Heneni.

 

[sojourner]

Isaiah 61: 10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

There's a difference between being saved and being righteous.

We need to be really careful. Isaiah's idea of salvation is not the same as ours. For Isaiah, there would have been no resurrection. Salvation, for the Hebrews, was a here-and-now sort of thing (a sentiment which is echoed, by the way, in Matthew).

 

[FFH]

Why do you think that we are 'clothed' with salvation but 'covered' with righteousness.

Seems like salvation is clothes for the naked and righteousness is a covering over that.

What you say?

Heneni.

We must be righteous and believe in Jesus Christ, rather than continue in sin and believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[Charity]

Hi charity! How you sweets?

The inheritance is joint. Jesus has it, and we have it. Its all ours, and His. All things belong to us. It is all ours. As it is all his. We have not come of age yet in order to inherit the estate. But when we have, we shall inherit it.

Now we do feel that some might inherit more than others. The inheritance is shared between all parties, but the management of the inheritance might be distributed unequally.

The managment of the estate depends on how faithful we were to god here on earth. If He could trust us with little, then surely he can trust us with much more. I think that is what will determine what becomes ours to oversee.But EVERYTHING will be yours, mine, and jesus' collectively. Responsibility for everything is disributed unequally.

What you say?

God bless
Heneni

Heneni, Miss Sweetthing...
I believe we will be joint heirs with Jesus, but I think it will be those that endure to the end.....By the end, I am referring to the ones that serve God until the end of their life or until the end of time which ever comes first....I don't say I'm totally right but it is the way I believe....."To them that overcome will I grant (these things)" I can go back and list "these things" but I'm lazy...

 

[S-word]

According to the Bible there will be a judgement after death....

Judas walked with Jesus but at the time of his betrayal do you think he would have received his inheirtance? And Peter even though he was the one to whom Jesus said, "Upon this Rock I will build my church", do you think at the time of his denial that he would have recieved his inheirtance? Or would it have been after he was restored and renewed and realized what he had done.....Then there was King David who was called a Man after God's own heart....but he too, sinned and after he lived through much anguish and heartache was finally restored by God....In the span of time whether long or short that someone turns from God I believe they are in danger of losing that inheirtance......

It's useless singling out individuals such as king David and Judas etc, for all have sinned and all have fallen short of the glory that is god on earth.

1 Peter 3: 19; when dead in the flesh, but alive in spirit, Jesus descended through time to the world of the dead relevant to the Roman Empire period in which Jesus had been born. There in the body of Noah in which new born body, while it was still in the hands of the midwife, he opened it's mouth and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. There he preached to those who had been disobedient in the days that Noah was building the boat....... (Before Abraham was, I Am.)

1 Peter 4:6; That's why the Good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they might live as God the greatest of all gatherers lives.

These were the living spirits that were poured out as fire and settled as little tongues of fire upon the heads of all they who believed the words of The Lord of righteousness (Enoch our indwelling Father who is the only man redeemed from the previous world and to have ascended to ends of all time)as spoken through the mouth of his obedient servant Jesus, who has been placed upon his throne within the body of Noah, as the spiritual cornerstone to which is gathered the spirits who will inherit the glory that is the new godhead of the creation.

The new creation which will dwell on earth among mankind: the new creation that is above the angels; the new creation that comes from mankind who was created a little below the angels, the new creation that flesh and blood cannot inherit.

Those spirits of the ancient world, which had been Judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, and were poured out as fire upon the heads of the believers, in order that from within the body of mankind they might live as God lives.
And in their spiritual existence, they gather to themselves all the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness, untill they have gathered to themselves the required number of spirits that have paid the blood price for the sins of their earthly existence.

The Ransom blood for the redemption of the obedient servants to each one of those spiritual gatherers, which obedient servants, they will choose from among the body of mankind, the ones in which they will die in the process of involution. By releasing from the least to the greatest, those gathered spirits diminish in involution as their chosen servants evolve in wisdom, knowledge and insight, in their obedience to each of those awakening spirits, until he who was the compilation of that inner spiritual enclosure of righteous spirits, has diminished into nothingness, and is reborn on earth in the physical body of their chosen servants who will have become the compilation and godhead of all the awaken'd spirits whose blood is the ransom price for their obedient descendant. And it is they, of the first resurrection who will take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule the whole world with Justice.

For I tell you a sacred secret, we shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter, into glorious bodies of incorruptible light (Like the brilliant and blinding body of Jesus of Nazareth who appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus).

 

[sojourner]

It's useless singling out individuals such as king David and Judas etc, for all have sinned and all have fallen short of the glory that is god on earth.

1 Peter 3: 19; when dead in the flesh, but alive in spirit, Jesus descended through time to the world of the dead relevant to the Roman Empire period in which Jesus had been born. There in the body of Noah in which new born body, while it was still in the hands of the midwife, he opened it's mouth and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. There he preached to those who had been disobedient in the days that Noah was building the boat....... (Before Abraham was, I Am.)

1 Peter 4:6; That's why the Good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they might live as God the greatest of all gatherers lives.

These were the living spirits that were poured out as fire and settled as little tongues of fire upon the heads of all they who believed the words of The Lord of righteousness (Enoch our indwelling Father who is the only man redeemed from the previous world and to have ascended to ends of all time)as spoken through the mouth of his obedient servant Jesus, who has been placed upon his throne within the body of Noah, as the spiritual cornerstone to which is gathered the spirits who will inherit the glory that is the new godhead of the creation.

The new creation which will dwell on earth among mankind: the new creation that is above the angels; the new creation that comes from mankind who was created a little below the angels, the new creation that flesh and blood cannot inherit.

Those spirits of the ancient world, which had been Judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, and were poured out as fire upon the heads of the believers, in order that from within the body of mankind they might live as God lives.
And in their spiritual existence, they gather to themselves all the spirits of good people who fall asleep in righteousness, untill they have gathered to themselves the required number of spirits that have paid the blood price for the sins of their earthly existence.

The Ransom blood for the redemption of the obedient servants to each one of those spiritual gatherers, which obedient servants, they will choose from among the body of mankind, the ones in which they will die in the process of involution. By releasing from the least to the greatest, those gathered spirits diminish in involution as their chosen servants evolve in wisdom, knowledge and insight, in their obedience to each of those awakening spirits, until he who was the compilation of that inner spiritual enclosure of righteous spirits, has diminished into nothingness, and is reborn on earth in the physical body of their chosen servants who will have become the compilation and godhead of all the awaken'd spirits whose blood is the ransom price for their obedient descendant. And it is they, of the first resurrection who will take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule the whole world with Justice.

According to whom, exactly?

 

[sojourner]

Judas walked with Jesus but at the time of his betrayal do you think he would have received his inheirtance? And Peter even though he was the one to whom Jesus said, "Upon this Rock I will build my church", do you think at the time of his denial that he would have recieved his inheirtance? Or would it have been after he was restored and renewed and realized what he had done.....Then there was King David who was called a Man after God's own heart....but he too, sinned and after he lived through much anguish and heartache was finally restored by God....In the span of time whether long or short that someone turns from God I believe they are in danger of losing that inheirtance.....

You're treating these characters and the incidents in which they are involved, as if they are individuals. But that's not the way the biblical writers portray them. David is a type for the kingdom of Israel. When David sinned and was restored, that was a literary device that the writer used to say that Israel had sinned and was restored. The Hebrew concern is the relationship of reconciliation.

When Matthew has Jesus talk about the keys of the kingdom (and Matt. is the only gospel that includes this), he's not talking about Peter-the-individual, he's talking about the community of believers. The Matthean concern is that the Church is a mixed bag of good-bad (wheat and chaff, and 28:17: "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted"). Inheritance isn't a specific problem for either group. I don't think these particular examples are cogent to your argument.

 

[S-word]

According to whom, exactly?

According to the spirit who reveals the truth.

 

[sojourner]

According to the spirit who reveals the truth.

And the "spirit" gave this to you word-for-word? Or is this a "translation?" or a "paraphrase?"

Valid Biblical interpretation has traditionally been done within the community, using the sense of the community as its guide. Interpretation has never been an individual project. There's a good reason for this. We aren't individual believers. We are all members of one Body.

 

[S-word]

And the "spirit" gave this to you word-for-word? Or is this a "translation?" or a "paraphrase?"

Valid Biblical interpretation has traditionally been done within the community, using the sense of the community as its guide. Interpretation has never been an individual project. There's a good reason for this. We aren't individual believers. We are all members of one Body.

And the "spirit" gave this to you word-for-word? Or is this a "translation?" or a "paraphrase?"

Valid Biblical interpretation has traditionally been done within the community, using the sense of the community as its guide. Interpretation has never been an individual project. There's a good reason for this. We aren't individual believers. We are all members of one Body.

Within what community” The so called mother church who is situated on the seven hills of Rome and who claims to hold a spiritual kingship over the temporal kings of the earth and who is the mother of all the lesser denominations of her belief, which were spawned from her false teaching that Jesus did not come as a human being?

That body, at whose head sits the anti-christ who tries to validate the false teaching that Jesus did not come as a human being, by twisting the words of Scripture, which state that an unmarried woman would conceive and bear a son, and change it to the deliberate lie that “A virgin” would conceive etc.

We were warned that they would come preaching a different Jesus than the obedient servant of god who came as a human being, having been the biological son of Mary and her half brother Joseph, the children of Heli, who like Abraham and his Half sister Sarah, the biological parents of Isaac who was a prototype of Jesus, were sired by the same father from different mothers.

 

[S-word]

..... "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted").

"When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted").

When Jesus died, the shadow from the incoming heavenly body which had plunged the city of Jerusalem into a three hour period of darkness disappeared, and the earth shook from the tremendous heavenly impact, the graves broke open, and many of God’s people who had died were raised to life. These were the spirits of the good people who had died in righteousness; the ancestral spirits within the body of Jesus who was the godhead or compilation of the inner spiritual enclosure, and three days later they entered the Holy city and showed themselves as the risen body of Christ.

The first to see one of they, who were of the body of the risen Christ, the 365 day old unblemished Lamb of God who was offered up for our sake, were the Mother of Jesus who was by then, the wife of Cleophas, which name is an abreviation of Cleopatros the masculine form of Cleopatra the mother of Herod's son philip from Bethsaida, who mysteriously disappears from the pages of history at the time of the death of Jesus. With Mary the wife of Alpheaus who is identified as Cleophas, was her sister, half sister, or step sister, Mary Magdalene, who, although looking straight at one of the risen body of Christ, thought that he was the gardener, until he spoke her name.

The next, to who one of the risen body of Christ appeared, were Cleophas who is also called Alpheas, who is the biological father of James the younger of Mary's three biological sons, who was the brother of Jesus, and the first to sit on the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision, and Cleophas was the husband of Mary, who, with his son Simon, 'to another marriage,' who was to inherit the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after his half brother, 'James the righteous,' was killed at the instigation of the same sudducce sect that had his brother Jesus killed.

Although Cleophas and Simon of the immediate family of Jesus, walked and talked with one of the risen body of Christ for some kilometres, they did not recognise him for who he was, until they saw the manner in which he broke the bread, Cleophas then returned to Jerusalem, where eleven of the disciples which included Simon Peter and Simon the Patriot, who were cowering in a darkened room, the only one absent that evening when Jesus appeared in that dimly lit room in the form that they reconginsed as Jesus, was Thomas Jude another half brother of Jesus, who was called the Twin, although nowhere does the bible say that he was an actual twin or whether he just held a striking resemblance to someone else, a brother perhaps?

But back to Cleophas who said to the eleven, "He has risen, he appeared to Simon," who could not have been Simon peter or Simon the patriot, but was of course Simon the brother of Jesus who succeeded ‘James the younger’ as the head of the church founded by their brother Jesus.

Then there were the seven disciples who were fishing on Lake Galilee having no success at all, when someone on the bank told them to throw their net on the right side of the boat in which they caught 153 fishes, sitting down to eat with the person who had a fire prepared with fish on it and some bread, not one of the disciples who had walked and talked with the man Jesus, dared to ask who he was, but they understood that he was of the risen body of Christ. Even when he ascended up into heaven as a cloud, although they worshipped him, some of the disciples present, doubted that it was he.

 

[sojourner]

Within what community” The so called mother church who is situated on the seven hills of Rome and who claims to hold a spiritual kingship over the temporal kings of the earth and who is the mother of all the lesser denominations of her belief, which were spawned from her false teaching that Jesus did not come as a human being?

That body, at whose head sits the anti-christ who tries to validate the false teaching that Jesus did not come as a human being, by twisting the words of Scripture, which state that an unmarried woman would conceive and bear a son, and change it to the deliberate lie that “A virgin” would conceive etc.

We were warned that they would come preaching a different Jesus than the obedient servant of god who came as a human being, having been the biological son of Mary and her half brother Joseph, the children of Heli, who like Abraham and his Half sister Sarah, the biological parents of Isaac who was a prototype of Jesus, were sired by the same father from different mothers.

Yikes! How obtuse.
I was referring to the Church. Period. Not "the Mother Church," not the "Catholic Church," not the "Church of the Poison Mind," or the "Church of the Presumptuous Assumption of the Blinding Light." The Church. You know...the Body of Christ. The ekklesia of believers. Sheesh.

 

[sojourner]

"When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted").

When Jesus died, the shadow from the incoming heavenly body which had plunged the city of Jerusalem into a three hour period of darkness disappeared, and the earth shook from the tremendous heavenly impact, the graves broke open, and many of God’s people who had died were raised to life. These were the spirits of the good people who had died in righteousness; the ancestral spirits within the body of Jesus who was the godhead or compilation of the inner spiritual enclosure, and three days later they entered the Holy city and showed themselves as the risen body of Christ.

The first to see one of they, who were of the body of the risen Christ, the 365 day old unblemished Lamb of God who was offered up for our sake, were the Mother of Jesus who was by then, the wife of Cleophas, which name is an abreviation of Cleopatros the masculine form of Cleopatra the mother of Herod's son philip from Bethsaida, who mysteriously disappears from the pages of history at the time of the death of Jesus. With Mary the wife of Alpheaus who is identified as Cleophas, was her sister, half sister, or step sister, Mary Magdalene, who, although looking straight at one of the risen body of Christ, thought that he was the gardener, until he spoke her name.

The next, to who one of the risen body of Christ appeared, were Cleophas who is also called Alpheas, who is the biological father of James the younger of Mary's three biological sons, who was the brother of Jesus, and the first to sit on the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision, and Cleophas was the husband of Mary, who, with his son Simon, 'to another marriage,' who was to inherit the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after his half brother, 'James the righteous,' was killed at the instigation of the same sudducce sect that had his brother Jesus killed.

Although Cleophas and Simon of the immediate family of Jesus, walked and talked with one of the risen body of Christ for some kilometres, they did not recognise him for who he was, until they saw the manner in which he broke the bread, Cleophas then returned to Jerusalem, where eleven of the disciples which included Simon Peter and Simon the Patriot, who were cowering in a darkened room, the only one absent that evening when Jesus appeared in that dimly lit room in the form that they reconginsed as Jesus, was Thomas Jude another half brother of Jesus, who was called the Twin, although nowhere does the bible say that he was an actual twin or whether he just held a striking resemblance to someone else, a brother perhaps?

But back to Cleophas who said to the eleven, "He has risen, he appeared to Simon," who could not have been Simon peter or Simon the patriot, but was of course Simon the brother of Jesus who succeeded ‘James the younger’ as the head of the church founded by their brother Jesus.

Then there were the seven disciples who were fishing on Lake Galilee having no success at all, when someone on the bank told them to throw their net on the right side of the boat in which they caught 153 fishes, sitting down to eat with the person who had a fire prepared with fish on it and some bread, not one of the disciples who had walked and talked with the man Jesus, dared to ask who he was, but they understood that he was of the risen body of Christ. Even when he ascended up into heaven as a cloud, although they worshipped him, some of the disciples present, doubted that it was he.

Allll righty, then!
None of this has anything whatsoever to do with Matthew. None of this is even found in Matthew. You're blending gospel traditions here.:redcard: