Thank you for the insight. I am not well acquainted with the Baha'i faith. I am grateful for the education. Does Jesus feature at all in your beliefs?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christians, Muslims, Jews....A Question About Love
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
Thank you for the insight. I am not well acquainted with the Baha'i faith. I am grateful for the education. Does Jesus feature at all in your beliefs?
How dare you assume you speak for Christ. How can you even think that hate is stronger than love?
1 John 4:16
Luke 6:45
I thought you were a Jehovah's Witness. Are you not speaking for Christ? Matthew 28:19-20
No it isn't! I am assuming you are a JW. Where is the table you say I must be eating at?
It seems to be. Yes. But he isn't ruling God's people. Is he?This world is ruled by satan....isn't that pretty obvious?(1 John 5:19)
Hate is easier than love. It is my own opinion that hate is never stronger than love. Love is the strongest thing there is and it should always be that way. Don't you think?
arthra
Baha'i
Jesus Christ is a Manifestation of God in Baha'i belief. See:
http://bahai-library.com/stockman_jesus_bahai_writings
I am stumbling over this:
Because I see The Father is in light, the Son out of light and the Spirit is light.
Scripture: Hebrews 2:9
1 Timothy 6:16
John 14:17
John 12:36
Last edited:
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
That awkward moment when Christians argue with Jews about Theology and don't understand why Jews would reject Christian Theology.
Aww you are basically just sad that we didn't join you in murdering the countless heathens.
And yet the covenant stayed in place long before your Jesus took a spear to his knee ( :^) ) from those Romans. But I know I know THEN it was suddenly different.
Probably should've sent a proper Prophet.
Which no one here has claimed, well except you bring it up repeatedly. Probably something psychological, how is your relationship with your mother?
Aww you are basically just sad that we didn't join you in murdering the countless heathens.
And yet the covenant stayed in place long before your Jesus took a spear to his knee ( :^) ) from those Romans. But I know I know THEN it was suddenly different.
Probably should've sent a proper Prophet.
Which no one here has claimed, well except you bring it up repeatedly. Probably something psychological, how is your relationship with your mother?
Tumah
Veteran Member
Yes.
Correction. He [ie. the NT authors] used the Torah as a spring board for his own novel ideas.
q[uote]Just because the proud Jewish leaders of the day rejected his teachings, didn't make him a false Messiah.[/quote]
Sure it does. Deut. 17:11.
Although even without that, it doesn't take a genius to see that he didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies.
You pray to Jesus. This is idolatry. There are no mediums between G-d and man.
So far so good.
Can you provide verses to back up these statements.
True.
Even in that case, G-d would not find another nation but continue the existence of Israel through...an Israelite (Ex. 32:10).
There are no verses in the entire Tanach that indicate that G-d will break His side of the covenant. In fact there are many verses indicating that even after we break the covenant He would still return to us/return us to Him.
Maybe.
False as of this post.
No, that role was never his to begin with. So its not really an issue. Anyone can claim to be the king. But only the guy sitting on the throne is believed.
True.
Also true.
Israel is already a "kingdom of priests and holy nation." Jesus didn't change that. He only took some people away from that.
Cool.
I live in an apartment building, so I have a few.
Perhaps you meant to say, "who is your friend?" Its kind of weird that in Lev. you translate the word as neighbor, but in SoS you translate the word as beloved.
And of course in answer to your question, as the context of Lev. 19:15-18 makes clear, "your friend" refers to "your nation". Unrelated, it also refers to G-d.
No. What's that got to do with the verses you're quoting. For some reason you are equating "blessing" with "becoming G-d's nation". There are many, many different types of blessings. There are blessings to livelihood, children, land, breast milk, health, life, etc. The word in Hebrew means to multiply or make bountiful. As in "and the fruit of your womb should be blessed" which means you should have a lot of children. The word itself makes no indication of what form the blessing would take.
The snake became a stumbling block for man and would continue to try to be. Man would regret that and try to kill the snakes.
So Seth and Cain were twins?
Also, you call it mindset of Cain. Perhaps you meant "mindset of Adam"?
To do the opposite of what G-d says.
And He is the one who despite their DNA chose one nation out of all the other nations. Clearly DNA is not a factor in this regard.
The vast majority, for sure.
But where does it say that I need to keep them perfectly?
Also, you seem to ignore the part where G-d makes no blessings for non-Jews who keep His Laws. Unless you have a verse somewhere...?
Sure.
Sure. We are blessed to serve G-d. We are blessed with life. Some of us are blessed with wealth. Many of us are blessed with numerous children, grandchildren and great-grand-children. There are so many blessings!
That's only one blessing missing. There are so many more that we do have.
I have peace in my life. My neighbors seem peaceful. My children are happy. That's a lot of blessing right there.
There could be more, there's always room for more, right? But to not recognize all the blessing we have. That's a bad trait.
False, as I established above.
Also false. There are many Muslims blessed with many different blessings. Health and wealth and they have a wonderful birthrate. That's a lot of blessings alone that's not really so prominent in the Christian world.
Sure they do. They have health and wealth and some children. Christians have so much blessing from G-d despite everything they do. G-d is very merciful.
This is clearly not correct as the entire Tanach makes clear.
G-d is the righteous judge who tests hearts and kidneys. So for sure that is true to a large extent. But certainly there are two different bars here as you are only required to follow 7 commandments while I have to fulfill 613+.
The first one should say, not to perform idol worship. Praying to G-d in the name of Jesus is idol worship. You will notice that of all the prayers to G-d in Tanach, none of them were through Jesus. Or anyone else. It also happens to be that the 7 are only commandment categories and there are actually 30 laws that are included there. But I guess that's neither here nor there.
No, I do not keep the Noahide Laws because I am under the Torah covenant, not the Noahide one.
That's cool. Jesus got a lot of other things wrong too.
The world would be better if we treated each other nicely. Making up stories about how we're really neighbors, and pretending like G-d commanded this, isn't really an honest way to do things.
What happened to Psa. 115:16.
We are obeying G-d by filling the earth and subduing it.
I think I understand pretty well just from reading the Hebrew scriptures why God's chosen nation rejected the last prophet sent to correct her. One only has to read how Israel treated her prophets in times past, to see why God called them a "stiff necked people".
Deut 9:13, 14:
"Moreover, Adonai said to me, ‘I have seen this people, and what a stiffnecked people they are! 14 Let me alone, so that I can put an end to them and blot out their name from under heaven! I will make out of you a nation bigger and stronger than they.’ "
What does this say to you about God's feelings towards his people because of their conduct?
Do Jews really have grounds to feel superior?
Aww you are basically just sad that we didn't join you in murdering the countless heathens.
What "heathens" would that be? Are you telling me that God did not sanction the killing of countless "heathens" by his military force? Are you going to tell me that Jews refused to fight in the wars of the twentieth century alongside "Christians"? I put "Christians" in inverted commas because we are not supposed to kill anyone.....for any reason. We are actually commanded to "love our enemies", not kill them. So just as there are "Jews" in name only, the majority of those who identify as Christians do not follow the teachings of their prophet either.
Just as a sidenote, when the Jews were persecuted by the Nazis, the genuine Christians were right there beside them in the camps for refusing to heil Hitler and bowing to his evil regime.
Or the people should have learned from their own history that humbly accepting correction from God is the beneficial way to go. Ignoring the prophets and even killing them was almost standard procedure in those ancient days. I am hoping that you do read your own scriptures. Do you honestly think the Jews have a right to feel superior?
Jesus' denunciation of those Jewish leaders of his day reflects their history.
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’” (Matthew 23:37-39)
Is there any way you could be wrong, just as your forefathers were?
This attitude we see demonstrated here by two Jewish contributors really speaks volumes to me. You guys seem to have a chip on your shoulders a mile wide. Is it guilt? Arbitrariness? What?
How do you explain this attitude of not including anyone but Jews in your understanding of a neighbor or friend? I understand the "birds of a feather" thing but why does it exclude those who are not Jewish? Wasn't God's promise to Abraham that "all the families of the earth" would inherit the blessing? Genesis 18:18 didn't just mean the Jewish nation....did it?
What "novel" ideas are you talking about? It was the oral traditions that made the law a burden to the Jewish people. The weight of these traditions is what cause a great many of the Jewish people to abandon their faith. The Sabbath laws for example were absolutely ridiculous. Those laws were never given to micro-manage God's nation to that extent, but that is what the Pharisees did. Jesus discerned their motives and taught the real "principles" behind the law, not the rigid "letter" of the law that became a noose around the necks of so many Jews at that time.
Who said? The very ones who put him to death, the way they ridded themselves of prophets in the past who made them feel uncomfortable? "They" said he wasn't the Messiah?
What person claiming to be the Messiah has lived either before or since who has fulfilled as many messianic prophesies as Jesus did? When is your Messiah coming? What will you do if Jesus returns and tells you that he gave the Jews plenty of time to acknowledge him as Messiah? Failed again?
I have never prayed to Jesus. I pray to God through the mediator that God provided. Just as Moses led Israel and conveyed God's directions to his people, so there was to be "a prophet like Moses" as he foretold.....
Deut 18:15, 18, 19:
“Adonai will raise up for you a prophet like me from among yourselves, from your own kinsmen. You are to pay attention to him....
God said, "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their kinsmen. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I order him. 19 Whoever doesn’t listen to my words, which he will speak in my name, will have to account for himself to me."
What if the Jews got this all wrong...again?
Can you tell me why God chose a people for his exclusive use among the nations of the earth? Why he would give his laws to these ones only to have them fail time and again to live up to their dedication to him? We have a written record of their history to see what happens when people who make such a commitment to God, disobey him...and what he does when they repent and turn around from their course.
Romans 15:4-6:
"For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope. 5 Now may the God who supplies endurance and comfort grant you to have among yourselves the same mental attitude that Christ Jesus had, 6 so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
We have your scriptures and ours to round out the full story. We must learn from the lessons of the past. The apostle who wrote that statement was Jewish, as all Bible writers were....he only used the Hebrew scriptures to teach the Jewish people about Jesus. The apostles showed the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" how to identify their Messiah.
Yes, because he made a promise to Abraham and God always keeps his promises. But, do you honestly believe that another nation descended from Moses would have done any better? It seems to me that the Jewish people as a whole find it hard to accept correction, as the nation demonstrated throughout their history, and continue to demonstrate.
What did God say on Mount Sinai to his rescued nation?
Exodus 19:5,6:
"Now if you will pay careful attention to what I say and keep my covenant, then you will be my own treasure from among all the peoples, for all the earth is mine; 6 and you will be a kingdom of cohanim for me, a nation set apart.’ These are the words you are to speak to the people of Isra’el.”
Do you see one small word that makes all the difference to this agreement? God said "IF" you will keep my covenant....you will become a kingdom of priests and a nation set apart".
You are right, but if the guy sitting next to the guy on the throne is Jesus, then Israel is in big trouble. Whose word do you have that Jesus wasn't the Messiah. Who raised a false expectation in the minds of the Jews as to what the Messiah was to do? Jesus didn't fill that false expectation but he did fulfill the Messianic prophesies.
And these priests are serving in what temple? Why was the temple never rebuilt when it was the hub of Jewish worship from the days of Israel's wandering in the wilderness to the destruction of the temple in 70C.E? Temples were destroyed, but they were always rebuilt.....why not after the Romans destroyed it?
Jesus took the Jews who refused to be swayed by pompous leaders whose egos were bruised by the actions and teachings of this man who exposed their wickedness and hypocrisy.
Isaiah 48:17, 18:
"Thus says Adonai, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Isra’el:
“I am Adonai, your God, who teaches you for your own good, who guides you on the path you should take.
18 If only you would heed my mitzvot! Then your peace would flow on like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea."
Do we see Israel so blessed? I think not.
Really?No, Seth and Cain were brothers out of the same womb....with the same family DNA as their parents.
Eve was taken from Adam, so she was not genetically separate from him. Adam never became a murderer but within one generation his son became one....such is the power of sin.
Actually sin is an archery term, meaning to "miss the mark" so it means to miss the mark of Adam's original perfection. Some kind of genetic abnormality was created by disobedience, leading to degeneration of the physical body and the mental capacity of humankind so that they became alienated from their Creator. Death came as a foreign event in the lives of humans, who were designed to live forever. (Gen 3:22-24)
Well, seeing as how only those who are born "Jewish" can claim to be genuine Jews, DNA must mean something special to the Jewish people. It seems to give them a sense of entitlement.
What are the penalties if you don't? If you break God's law today, what is your punishment? Who implements it? Do you think God gives laws without expecting them to be kept?
Since those who became Jewish converts from other nations experienced the blessings along with God's nation when things were good, and since they would also have experienced the punishments when the nation fell away to false worship and apostasy, we can assume that God viewed those proselytes as part of his people, though not fully.
Still the promise to Abraham was for "all the families of the earth" to gain a blessing from Israel's Messiah....the "seed" of Genesis 3:15.
Hmmm...since non-Jews also experience those same blessings in many lands, what makes Jews so special in that regard? (Isaiah 48:18)
That is the one blessing that God promised...peace. Does Israel have more peace than the rest of the world? For such a small area, they have more than their share of bloodshed and conflict. Where is the peace?
I agree, but we cannot ignore the plight of our "brothers" in lands where there is no peace and hasn't been for a very long time.
Who is providing the blessings to Islam and Christianity that you see? Does this "blessing" counteract the fact that many live with the constant threat of war, death and destruction?
Yes he is...until his patience runs out.....which it clearly has in the past and will again in the future.
Jews seem to have a very literal interpretation of the scriptures when the writers often spoke metaphorically. Circumcision, for example was conscientiously practiced as a requirement for all Jewish males...but was the physical act of circumcision really the issue?
Jeremiah wrote...“People of Y’hudah and inhabitants of Yerushalayim, circumcise yourselves for Adonai, remove the foreskins of your heart!
Otherwise my fury will lash out like fire, burning so hot that no one can quench it, because of how evil your actions are." (Jer 4:4)
Isn't this telling us that if our life course isn't up to God's standard, then no act of circumcision is going to make someone righteous in God's eyes? He wants the conduct to match the dedication...correct?
Jesus fulfilled the law and removed the curse of it. The law was a curse because no one could keep it perfectly. (Dan 9:11-13)
Praying to God through Christ is an acknowledgment by Christians that we need a mediator between us and our perfect God.
Prayers on behalf of the nation were given through the High Priest. We see Jesus as our High Priest.
Can you name me some?
What stories am I making up? I am only reminding the readers here that God is holding out a hope for the future through his promised Messiah....that includes people of all nations, just as he promised Abraham. People from all faiths can come to him and receive his blessings. Just as Jewish converts had to come into God's nation in order to receive his blessings, they had to live as Jews and follow the same lifestyle and mode of worship as Jews did. This is the pattern for us. We too must conform to God's ways and come to be among his "people" today.
Yes, and isn't this what the Bible as a whole promises? 'Filling the earth' was only part of the mandate given to Adam and his wife. The "subduing" part of it was shelved once sin entered into the world. When God reiterated his mandate to Noah and his sons, he left out the part about subduing the earth (Gen 9:1)...that would come later under the rule of Messiah's kingdom, reflected in Isaiah's prophesies. God's first purpose never changed from Eden until now.....it has taken all this time for God to test his human creation and to choose those he wants as citizens of his kingdom. We are telling God every day what kind of people we are, so as you said, he is the judge of who we really are.
If we truly are God's people, then peace will be our possession and nothing in this world will be able to take it from us.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
On the authority of Abu Hamzah Anas bin Maalik (radiAllaahu anhu)1 – the servant of the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam2) – that the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam) said :
None of you [truly] believes until he loves for his brother that which he loves for himself.
Scholars say that the word brother refers to brothers in humanity.
arthra
Baha'i
The Baha'i view of the trinity was stated by Abdul-Baha as follows:
The epitome of the discourse is that the Reality of Christ was a clear mirror, and the Sun of Reality -- that is to say, the Essence of Oneness, with its infinite perfections and attributes -- became visible in the mirror. The meaning is not that the Sun, which is the Essence of the Divinity, became divided and multiplied -- for the Sun is one -- but it appeared in the mirror. This is why Christ said, "The Father is in the Son," meaning that the Sun is visible and manifest in this mirror.
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which becomes visible and evident in the Reality of Christ. The Sonship station is the heart of Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the station of the spirit of Christ. Hence it has become certain and proved that the Essence of Divinity is absolutely unique and has no equal, no likeness, no equivalent.
This is the signification of the Three Persons of the Trinity.
~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pp. 113-115
Tumah
Veteran Member
Well if Jesus said it, it must be true right?
Not, actually no. Jesus is not an authority on Judaism. He's a liar, a thief and an enticer to evil. The NT itself was designed to legitimize Jesus' claim by fabricating baseless accusations well after the fact. No Jew is going to follow the NT authors if they praises the current Rabbinate, so they demonize them to the people. "The Rabbis are making things too hard for you, follow me for the easy life. The Rabbis are evil, they're only pretending anyway. You don't have to feel bad about not listening to evil Rabbis. And don't feel bad that G-d told you to listen to the Rabbis and you're not...because I'm Jesus, I can circumvent the Words of G-d. Poof! I'm the Sabbath! Now you don't need to follow any of the Sabbath Laws! See how easy that was!"
Seriously. how transparent can you get.
That's a stupid claim. Clearly not every Jew was doing wrong, otherwise we wouldn't have the Tanach to begin with. And there wouldn't be any true prophets. Not that that even matters since at this point there had been no prophets for for close to 400 years.
Jesus didn't fill any of the Messianic prophecies. So in that respect, there have been a number of them. Bar Kochva for one.
I'll tell Jesus where to stick it, because if he wants recognition as the messiah, than he needs to fulfill the messianic prophets. Before then, he's just a homeless guys with a sign about the end being near.
G-d does not provide mediators. No Jew has ever prayed to G-d through Moses.
And his name was (in no particular order): Joshua, Eli, Samuel, Nathan, Gad, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Elijah, Elisha...and last of all Nehemia.
The evidence is so astounding against that being true, that I'm more worried about seeing flying elephants. I don't even need to rely on the words of the Sages, just a clear reading of Tanach without the mental loops you need to go through to make things fit with your NT already proves your Jesus wrong.
So the real question is, what will you do, when you finally read the Tanach without the misconceptions of your NT and you realize how many people you tried to convince to follow an evil way?
You want me to speak for G-d? What type of Witness for G-d are you? What more do you need than the entire Tanach proclaiming time after time that G-d did this? He didn't choose us because we were going to live up to our dedication, He chose us because of our fathers. And that's why He never said that He would abandon us forever, no matter how much we sin and He punishes us, at the end, He tells us time and again that we will always be rejoined. We are unfaithful - that is true, but He is not.
Yours reinterpret the story. Not round it out.
It doesn't matter if that nation would have done better, because at the end of the day, G-d is never going to let the Jewish people go. No matter how hard we struggle against Him. He'll whip us sorely and he has done so many times in the past 3,500 years. But that just proves that He never gave up on us.
Nice try. These are two different verses. The first verse says, "if you listen to Me...then you will be for Me a treasure...". The next verse is a command. "You shall be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." We are commanded to serve G-d directly (which is what priests do) and to be holy.
G-d raised that "false expectation" with all His messianic prophecies. If He didn't intend them to be fulfilled, then He shouldn't have written them.
Really? What do you think Bar Kochva was trying to do? After 3 revolts lasting 200 years, do you think the Romans were going to say, "You know what, we were wrong. Here's your temple back." Besides for a brief period under Julius Ceasar when the Jews did try to rebuild the Temple. Jews weren't even allowed to enter Jerusalem (now pagan Aelia Capitolina) until the 7th century when the Sassanians overthrew the Byzantines. At that point most Jews were living in Babylon and beyond and there is no longer any ashes of the red heifer to allow ascendance to the Temple proper to rebuild.
I think what you mean to say, is that Jesus took the uneducated Jews who were just interested in living the easy life with a clear conscience. So yes, he did.
Yes, sadly, the majority of Jews do not follow G-d's Law. But there are still plenty that do. Always reminds me of Jer. 3:14.Isaiah 48:17, 18:
"Thus says Adonai, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Isra’el:
“I am Adonai, your God, who teaches you for your own good, who guides you on the path you should take.
18 If only you would heed my mitzvot! Then your peace would flow on like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea."
Do we see Israel so blessed? I think not.
But look, if that was not expected, than the messianic prophecies would not always be about us returning to G-d. Clearly G-d knows the future.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Yeah, I know its difficult for you to believe that the verse means what it says, but that's actually what...it...says.
So Abel, Cain and Seth were all identical twins. And of course, since they married their sisters who were also born of their parents, their children were also identical to them. And everybody looked the same until such time as enough generations passed for their to be some genetic mutation.
"Hi mom!"
"No, I'm not your mom, I'm your cousin's aunt, Keinan's sister. How could you confuse me, Lamech?"
"Lamech? I'm not Lamech, I'm Jared! Jessica's son."
"Oh you look exactly like Lamech because we all share the exact same DNA so we're all genetic twins of each other. My mistake."
Yes. That makes sense. Lets use archery terms to figure out Biblical theology. Makes a lot of sense.
No, DNA means nothing to the Jewish people, because having a Jewish father does not make one Jewish. Conversely, a convert doesn't need to have any Jewish blood whatsoever.
And yes, we are entitled to the Torah that G-d gave us. And no, since He didn't give it to you, its wrong to take it. Had He intended to give it to you, you'd have received it along with us.
There are none, so long as I try my hardest.
Purgatory. Same as always.
G-d. Same as always.
Of course not. Which is why we keep them...
No, we can assume that G-d viewed those converts as completely part of His people, which is why they experienced the ups and downs along with the Jews.
I don't see anywhere in that verse that mentions Abraham's seed, Israel, or the Messiah. So clearly, you are interpolating into the verse what it does not say.
Its not the blessings of G-d that make Jews special. Anyone can enjoy the blessings of G-d. Jews have certain conditions on them to experience it as a nation. But as individuals, anyone can experience G-d's blessings. And many do.
That is the one blessing? Have you been to Deut. 28 lately?
We do not share brothers.
And no one is telling you not to help out other humans. We were all made in the image of G-d, so to help another human, is to honor G-d's image.
G-d, obviously. He is the Source of all blessing.
How can one thing counteract something else? Everyone gets according to what he deserves from the Righteous Judge. If someone performs a deed that merits them many children, they will be blessed with many children, no matter if they also perform a deed for which they will have to die at a young age.
The sad state of us, it is true. We have sinned and unfortunately we will sin again. And G-d will either wait for us to return to Him or force us to return to Him, just like He has done in the past.
Its easy to reinterpret everything you want. Just turn it into a metaphor.
No. Its telling Jews that if we need to remove the impediments that are preventing us from returning to G-d with our whole hearts (Jer. 3:10, 17).
And Jer. 6:10 is telling the Jews to remove the impediments that prevent us from listening to G-d.
The difference obviously being, that circumcision only applies to males and is to be done to someone at a certain time. Jeremiah's circumcisions apply to all, at all times and need to be done to oneself.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
What is it with Christians and their quote mining? Do you guys ever read an entire chapter or just the parts which in that moment fit your narrative.
What you are quoting is a recount of what happened during the Exodus. Which kinda didn't end in God ending the covenant, on the contrary actually.
Why would God give us methods and means to atone from our sins if its our duty to uphold them 100%? You see its far easier to convert some non-Jew living in Europe, Africa or the Americas who has never heard or even read the TaNaKh and thus believes everything the Christian missionary tells him.
Not that easy with Jews, that must suck.
And you again with the supposed superiority, what's up with that? How about some evidence that Jews or better Judaism proclaims that Jews are "superior"?
Aren't you a JW?
Oh right I forgot, everything that happened before the enlightenment which pacified Christianity in most Western countries was done by not real Christians. Well except of course all those Councils and rulings, they were done by real Christians.
So let's just ignore everything before that.
God has about nothing to do with the wars of the 20th century. So no idea why you bring him into this, also the wars of the 20th century were hardly about killing heathens.
So when God told Joshua to conquer the Land he was merely making a joke.
And when Gold told us to not let any Canaanites alive he was also just making a joke.
Oh man the entire Book of Joshua must make no sense to you at all.
So you are a JW. Yet you are still a Christian bound by its Theology. Quite sad actually.
Have you learned nothing because of the Concentration and Extermination Camps?
Okay is this a drinking game? I have to ask because you bring it up again and again.
Again some evidence that Judaism teaches that Jews are superior?
That weird moment when some Christian is quoting Christian books to a Jew, again.
You know while you are at it you could also quote Hindu or Buddhist books, about as relevant to a Jew.
You know what goes around comes around. You started with the whole attitude of supposed superiority, now don't whine about the answers after you've done it again and again.
That actually not what it says, though you know that...
יח וְאַבְרָהָם--הָיוֹ יִהְיֶה לְגוֹי גָּדוֹל, וְעָצוּם; וְנִבְרְכוּ-בוֹ--כֹּל, גּוֹיֵי הָאָרֶץ.
Oh wait, you can't... oh.
"And Abraham will become a great and powerful nation, and all the nations of the world will be blessed in him."
Nothing about inheriting anything.
I have to quote this because it really is just that special.
1. You called the laws given by God a curse.
That in itself is amazing if you claim to follow this God. In other cultures of the world you'd be dead just about.... now.
At the same time it kinda makes no sense to follow a God whose laws you call a curse. Though I guess if one is a masochist...
2. So no one can keep the laws perfectly........ and? Where is the point?
Of course we (as in Jews) usually can't. Which is why God kinda gave us means and ways to atone for our sins. Its almost as if he knew about it. Bloody amazing.
But I know of course that this is all in vain. You can't stop hate with simple logic.
Though I prefer the Nazis over people who claim to love everyone while they only hate, hate and hate. At least the Nazis are honest about their feelings.
@Flankerl and @Tumah
I am beginning to understand the animosity and frustration expressed towards Christianity in your posts. You firmly believe the opposite of what Christians believe about the authenticity of the man Jesus as Messiah, choosing instead to stick to your own religious traditions, despite the rocky history of Israel's religious leaders in the past, who took the whole nation into apostasy and false worship many times...and despite thousands of years waiting for a Messiah who never comes.
If over 400 years had elapsed since the last prophet had tried to offer correction to God's people....what happened to God's nation in that 400 years? If they followed their own track record, then why do you think the Pharisees could not be wrong about Jesus? The prophets that God sent to his people were by and large ignored and persecuted by them...some were put to death to shut them up. Can you not see a pattern here?
Can you tell me why there are no other prophets after Malachi? What if Jesus was the final prophet...the true Messiah...and Israel once again silenced this critic who was exposing them for the religious frauds that they were? It's a bitter pill to swallow but the possibility is one you cannot deny.
If I may quote a fellow Jew from the DIR thread on "Questions About Traditional Judaism", I think we can see how this happened.....
"Another way of putting that would be that if there are two Jews having a discussion, there will be three different opinions.... Jews tend towards contentiousness.
We learn that the reason that the Second Temple was destroyed was because of Baseless Hatred of one Jew towards another Jew. We learn that the reason that the Temple has not been rebuilt for the last 2,000 years is because we still suffer from Baseless Hatred."
Comparing his honest comments with your own is interesting because we can see that "contentiousness" is indeed tied in with Jewish history. It is still very apparent even today. It is hard to get past that animosity especially when antisemitism is a burden that has been carried by the Jewish people over many generations. But Christians too have been brutally persecuted. In the first century, Jews were the prime persecutors. We have a history too. And when you see the decline of the Christian church when Constantine set up Roman Catholicism as the state religion, you see another example of men corrupting the word of God to justify their ungodly conduct.Christendom is a poor example of Christianity and has been since the early centuries. Her history is not one to be proud of either.....but her defection was foretold.
If peace is the blessing that God promises his people, then look for the ones who are at peace with their neighbors in the whole world.
If they are shedding innocent blood, then God is not among them. There is no sanction for the death of innocents. (Deut 19:9, 10) God's law had penalties even for the accidental man slayer, let alone those who wantonly took innocent lives along with their intended targets.
There is no such thing as "collateral damage" to God. This is a term invented by men to excuse killing innocent women and children.Isn't it time to bury the hatchet and try to "be peaceable with all men"? This is the Bible's recommendation for Christians.
I am beginning to understand the animosity and frustration expressed towards Christianity in your posts. You firmly believe the opposite of what Christians believe about the authenticity of the man Jesus as Messiah, choosing instead to stick to your own religious traditions, despite the rocky history of Israel's religious leaders in the past, who took the whole nation into apostasy and false worship many times...and despite thousands of years waiting for a Messiah who never comes.
If over 400 years had elapsed since the last prophet had tried to offer correction to God's people....what happened to God's nation in that 400 years? If they followed their own track record, then why do you think the Pharisees could not be wrong about Jesus? The prophets that God sent to his people were by and large ignored and persecuted by them...some were put to death to shut them up. Can you not see a pattern here?
Can you tell me why there are no other prophets after Malachi? What if Jesus was the final prophet...the true Messiah...and Israel once again silenced this critic who was exposing them for the religious frauds that they were? It's a bitter pill to swallow but the possibility is one you cannot deny.
If I may quote a fellow Jew from the DIR thread on "Questions About Traditional Judaism", I think we can see how this happened.....
"Another way of putting that would be that if there are two Jews having a discussion, there will be three different opinions.... Jews tend towards contentiousness.
We learn that the reason that the Second Temple was destroyed was because of Baseless Hatred of one Jew towards another Jew. We learn that the reason that the Temple has not been rebuilt for the last 2,000 years is because we still suffer from Baseless Hatred."
Comparing his honest comments with your own is interesting because we can see that "contentiousness" is indeed tied in with Jewish history. It is still very apparent even today. It is hard to get past that animosity especially when antisemitism is a burden that has been carried by the Jewish people over many generations. But Christians too have been brutally persecuted. In the first century, Jews were the prime persecutors. We have a history too. And when you see the decline of the Christian church when Constantine set up Roman Catholicism as the state religion, you see another example of men corrupting the word of God to justify their ungodly conduct.Christendom is a poor example of Christianity and has been since the early centuries. Her history is not one to be proud of either.....but her defection was foretold.
If peace is the blessing that God promises his people, then look for the ones who are at peace with their neighbors in the whole world.
If they are shedding innocent blood, then God is not among them. There is no sanction for the death of innocents. (Deut 19:9, 10) God's law had penalties even for the accidental man slayer, let alone those who wantonly took innocent lives along with their intended targets.
There is no such thing as "collateral damage" to God. This is a term invented by men to excuse killing innocent women and children.Isn't it time to bury the hatchet and try to "be peaceable with all men"? This is the Bible's recommendation for Christians.
"Agape" is the love that does not allow hatred to mold a person to become like the one who has done harm to them.
Romans 12:17-21:
"Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good."
We are told to "return evil for evil to no one" but instead to "conquer evil with good". That is hard to do when injustice is eating away at the heart, but God's spirit can help all of us overcome such hatred and "love" our enemies (not hate them) in spite of what they may have done to us. Christians show by their actions how much faith they have in God, who will avenge all injustice in this world.