Christians on afterlife

[Catholicus]

Replace the word "Jesus" with "Christian Fundamentalism" and I agree 100% with the post.

My thoughts about the Biblical god character, are the result of reading the Bible many times. If in the unlikely event that it actually exists, and what is attributed to it is true, it is worse than any human who has ever lived

In what way ?

And if it weren't for God, we wouldn't exist.

 

[Catholicus]

Where Jesus and god are concerned, it is all speculation, not fact.

There are no cut-and-dried facts regarding religion one way or the other.

But one has to choose belief or unbelief - no one can live a life based on "maybe" or "perhaps."

Pascal's Wager points out that it is safer to assume that God DOES exist.

BTW Jesus is God - that is what God is like.

 

[Catholicus]

Given the number of Christians in the world, more than a few will be saved.

Or are you suggesting most Christians won't be saved?

When Jesus was asked, point blank "Sir, will only a few be saved ?" , He replied:

"Try to enter by the narrow door, because many will try to enter but not succeed"

Those are careful and non-committal words.

Had Jesus said "Yes" everyone would succumb to Despair; had He said "No" everyone would presume on being saved.

 

[Catholicus]

Christians can judge actions, or lack of action, yet to judge motives is something we cannot do.

Yes, repentance is key to salvation,but you don´t repent to me, you repent to God.

Here is truth that many refuse to accept.

We are all sinners, every one with no exception. Your sins, whatever they are, are no worse than mine, we are all in the same boat on that score.

We are totally estranged from God, for He despises sin. But we have an intercessor who solved the sin problem for us, as our substitute He payed the penalty for our sin, and lived a perfect life as our substitute, so we can be seen as sinless by God through him.

Repentance simply means making a conscious choice to turn away from our sin. To work to over come it, not to be saved, but because we are saved.

Now to your question. It appears that one who does not accept the intercession of Christ, will be lost in their sin. Notice I said appears, one is going on in their mind, if anything, between God and they is totally unknown to me, I can say nothing for sure about the disposition of their soul.

We know that God is perfectly just, and perfectly merciful.

Knowing that I have often wondered about, say an African 500 years ago deep in the interior of the continent. He is a good man , kind, loving, merciful, sharing, all the attributes a Christian should have, yet he knows nothing of Christ , will he be lost ? I haven´t a clue.

What I do know is that in Godś mercy and justice, things will be as they should.

Will the African be lost ?

No - because he is a Christian without realising it; somehow, Jesus has got through to him and converted him.

 

[Catholicus]

I doubt that Jesus said that.
But nobody knows, Jesus left no records.

All we have is translations of interpretations of what some anonymous people think that they remember about what Jesus said and did.
Not the same as "Jesus says..." at all.
Tom

Anonymous ? : Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, in fact.

What makes you think they were fools or liars ?

 

[Catholicus]

Typical - people want to make it a matter of what people say and not facing the real choice of believing Jesus or approving his execution

There is no middle ground


And don't forget when asked if only a few people would be saved Jesus answer was "Yes" Most will end up in Hell

No - Jesus replied: "Do your best to enter by the narrow door, for many will try to enter but won't succeed."

Many, not "most."

In other words, Jesus was non-committal and we don't know the answer.

 

[Catholicus]

So should one be benevolent to the likes of Hitler and IS?

Yes - in the sense of praying that they will repent.

No - in the sense of giving them a free hand.

 

[Catholicus]

There is nothing just and merciful about the Biblical god.

Christian doctrine (all churches) states that God is both infinitely merciful and infinitely just.

The Bible always needs interpretation - and says of itself: "The written word brings Death; it is the Spirit [of God] that gives Life."

I.e. the Bible should only be read with God's healing and consoling presence nearby to help one understand its meaning correctly.

 

[Catholicus]

If God said this, it would be powerful evidence.
Humans claiming it, and backing up their claims with ancient implausible stories, is not powerful evidence.
Not even close.
Tom

The evidence for Jesus of Nazareth's existence is stronger than that for Julius Caesar's.

You take Roman historians on trust; so why not the Gospel-writers ?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Well, if you say this I have just discovered another Bible critisizer that never read the Bible.

Then you'd be 100% WRONG. I've read both the Roman Catholic version and the King James version. But I guess it's easier to claim that I haven't read it than to point out any actual verifiable evidence.

Anyone can make fantastical claims. So sad that you can't back yours up.

 

[JJ50]

A number of Christians who claim non believers haven't read the Bible, yet state god is loving and merciful, obviously haven't it themselves.

 

[viole]

Here is what I was trying to say in my posts. A person who tells others including atheists that people go to hell, shouldn't have a problem either:

1. Telling people directly to their face given they accept they have spiritual insight.

2. If they don't claim to have spiritual insight, they are most likely accepting the Bible by its word. In which case, they should talk about how their supreme use of the Bible to the extent they're telling everyone else what to do, isn't a form of idolism.

I usually like it when Christians remind me, during a debate, of my eternal destiny in hell. So, I do not find it offensive at all.

Ciao

- viole

 

[JJ50]

I usually like it when Christians remind me, during a debate, of my eternal destiny in hell. So, I do not find it offensive at all.

Ciao

- viole

No but you aren't a child or vulnerable are you?

 

[viole]

No but you aren't a child or vulnerable are you?

Neither. However, even though it is questionable to threaten people with such things, i find the invention of hell devilish brilliant. Pun intended.

Ciao

- viole

 

[JJ50]

Neither. However, even though it is questionable to threaten people with such things, i find the invention of hell devilish brilliant. Pun intended.

Ciao

- viole

I must put a suitcase of asbestos clothing ready for my sojourn in hell!

 

[Road Less Traveled]

I'm not a Christian, I'm highly skeptical of Jesus but not as much God. I think the world needs more sex and rock'n'roll. Am I going to hell?

And don't say "Only God knows." Because the fact Christians preach about people going to hell if they don't repent, suggests they have spiritual insight into the matter.

It's a controversial question. But I won't get upset if you say "yes".

Does sex and rock + roll create hell in your life?

 

[JJ50]

Does sex and rock + roll create hell in your life?

Rock and roll would be my idea of hell.

 

[Muffled]

I'm not a Christian, I'm highly skeptical of Jesus but not as much God. I think the world needs more sex and rock'n'roll. Am I going to hell?

And don't say "Only God knows." Because the fact Christians preach about people going to hell if they don't repent, suggests they have spiritual insight into the matter.

It's a controversial question. But I won't get upset if you say "yes".

I believe so but not right away.

I believe there is enough sex and what is needed is appropriate sex. I believe Rock and Roll can be good or evil, so I would n't mind having less of the latter.

I believe there are some important questions that need to be answered for you to be saved. Certainly repentance is one of them but having been there myself (repented and nothing else) I can say it did not save me.

 

[Muffled]

I can't say for sure no one can, but as there is no evidence there is any god or afterlife, I am hopeful that dead means one never comes to life again.

I believe it makes no sense to put ones hope in something that you think is not evident. So hoping that you will end when you die looks like a bad bet.

 

[Muffled]

John Lennon used to say : people are ashamed of saying they make love...but don't mind saying they killed somebody (in war)

I believe that makes a lot of sense. Some forms of sex are shameful but fighting in a meritorious war is commendable.