christians only: do you believe in the virgin birth?

[arcanum]

Being brought up a fundamentalist christian I believed in the virgin birth as a reality. Isaiah 7:14 behold a virgin...but i later learned it was mistranslated as a "young maid: shall bear a son. Once I understood this translation error could have led to a possible later accretion and of course dec 25th being the birth of the sun god was another pagan interpolation. These two examples are just the tip of the iceberg of pagan layers making up the Jesus cake that we now know. I've come to believe that once Christianity was embraced by Rome it became mixed and became something different, a whole different religion than from what it started as by the original followers of the way.

 

[Bob Dixon]

I do believe in it.

Does my belief in Jesus as the Christ hinge upon it, though? No.
Would everything I believe fall apart if I didn't believe this? Again, no.

 

[ChristineES]

I believe in it. We already know that Jesus wasn't born on December 25. But as Bob Dixon said before me, my whole faith won't fall apart if I decided it wasn't true.

 

[sunshineydays]

yes I believe in the virgin birth, w/o this, Jesus would not have been perfect for he was born perfect into this world and no one else could touch this.
If Jesus had been born w/o Mary being a virgin, then he would have been born the same as the jews exactly after Adam and Eve. That would say anyone else could be perfect as his Heavenly Father is perfect, yet no one has been or ever will be.
He is and the only one that was and is forever perfect. No one can do as he did, he never sinned, he was not born after Adam and Eve as the rest of us are. He never needed to be born again, we do or have come to this need
My two cents with my reasons reason why?
sunshineydays

 

[wordmagnifiedabovenames]

Yes.

Regardless of a potential mis-translation of Is 7, (besides which I still think Mary qualifies as a "young maid," and many "young maids" would have most likely been virgins anyway,) other parts of the Bible (eg Matt 1 and Luke 1,) make it obvious that Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus.

 

[Katzpur]

Being brought up a fundamentalist christian I believed in the virgin birth as a reality. Isaiah 7:14 behold a virgin...but i later learned it was mistranslated as a young maid shall bear a son essentially. Once I understood this as a later accretion i also learned that his birth on dec 25 was later pagan interpolation. These two examples are just the tip of the iceberg of pagan layers making up the Jesus cake that we now know.

Well, since the "young maid" specifically told the angel that she had not known a man, I think she was more than merely a "young maid." She was a "young maid" who had never had sexual relations (unless you also believe she was lying to the angel). I don't believe she gave birth to her firstborn Son on December 25, but I do believe she was a virgin at the time. I also don't believe she remained a virgin throughout her life.

If you don't believe she was a virgin, who do you believe Jesus' father was?

 

[Me Myself]

I believe.

 

[dawny0826]

I do.

 

[bigbird123456789]

This is simple for me, if Jesus was not born according to the Gosple, of the Virgin Mary, of the Holy Spirit then, the person born would of been of mans seed and therefore of the sinful nature. Now we know He had no sin, yet He became sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him, who loved us and gave Himself for us.

Without faith it is impossible to please God and for the sake of the works themselves we must believe.

 

[sunshineydays]

Being brought up a fundamentalist christian I believed in the virgin birth as a reality. Isaiah 7:14 behold a virgin...but i later learned it was mistranslated as a "young maid: shall bear a son. Once I understood this translation error could have led to a possible later accretion and of course dec 25th being the birth of the sun god was another pagan interpolation.

These two examples are just the tip of the iceberg of pagan layers making up the Jesus cake that we now know. I've come to believe that once Christianity was embraced by Rome it became mixed and became something different, a whole different religion than from what it started as by the original followers of the way.

I agree with you
I see it this way, when I fill a glass of water it is full and pure. All I have to do to taint the water is add a drop of ink and it is not pure.
This is what has taken place with dec 25th. no scripture even leads to this as his day of birth. It does lead to early spring or late fall.
And yes you are right these two examples are the tip of the iceberg. That is why I think it most important that each and everyone of us seek out the creator of all of this. And thus hear from the source
sunshineydays

 

[The Peacekeeper]

I do believe in it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well, since the "young maid" specifically told the angel that she had not known a man, I think she was more than merely a "young maid." She was a "young maid" who had never had sexual relations (unless you also believe she was lying to the angel). I don't believe she gave birth to her firstborn Son on December 25, but I do believe she was a virgin at the time. I also don't believe she remained a virgin throughout her life.

If you don't believe she was a virgin, who do you believe Jesus' father was?

I would go along with that.
the Idea of the "perpetual virgin" is stretching things too far for me,
And I don't think the Bible makes a case for that idea.

 

[arcanum]

I would go along with that.
the Idea of the "perpetual virgin" is stretching things too far for me,
And I don't think the Bible makes a case for that idea.

No the bible doesn't but the catholics do.

 

[The Peacekeeper]

haha! Aimed at me?

 

[arcanum]

haha! Aimed at me?

No, not aimed at you. Why do you believe that mary was a virgin to her dying day despite what the gospels say?

 

[Katzpur]

the Idea of the "perpetual virgin" is stretching things too far for me, And I don't think the Bible makes a case for that idea.

I agree. I don't think there is a single, solitary verse in the Bible that even suggests it. Furthermore, I don't get why Catholicism holds the concept of Mary's perpetual virginity in such high regard. I mean she was a married woman, for crying out loud. What possible purpose would there have been for her to have remained a virgin throughout her life?

I'm curious, though. I know that Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin forever. Is that also the Orthodox Church's position? What about the Anglican Church?

 

[arcanum]

I agree. I don't think there is a single, solitary verse in the Bible that even suggests it. Furthermore, I don't get why Catholicism holds the concept of Mary's perpetual virginity in such high regard. I mean she was a married woman, for crying out loud. What possible purpose would there have been for her to have remained a virgin throughout her life?

I'm curious, though. I know that Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin forever. Is that also the Orthodox Church's position? What about the Anglican Church?

I'm pretty sure it's the orthodox position as well as i recently attended an orthodox service and they referred to the undefiled mother of god more than once.

 

[The Peacekeeper]

Well, I might say that giving birth to Jesus would have been a pretty stunning happening as to modify ideas about life enough for her to remain a virgin up until the end of her days. I am sure that The Mother of Christ would really be beyond the usual people in the world. She had a different marriage and I suppose that she wasn't really trying to enjoy life or something as normal people? :|

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I agree. I don't think there is a single, solitary verse in the Bible that even suggests it. Furthermore, I don't get why Catholicism holds the concept of Mary's perpetual virginity in such high regard. I mean she was a married woman, for crying out loud. What possible purpose would there have been for her to have remained a virgin throughout her life?

I'm curious, though. I know that Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin forever. Is that also the Orthodox Church's position? What about the Anglican Church?

The Anglican Church does not have an official view on Marian Dogma.
However she is regarded as the first of the saints. Most Cathedrals and large churches have a "lady Chapel" as the largest most prominent side chapel.

The Altar I made for our church in memory of my wife is in our lady chapel.

The nature of Anglicanism is so broad that it embraces Anglo-Catholics (almost indistinguishable from Roman Catholics in their beliefs), to Evangelicals and low churches
Who demonstrate something of a horror of Marianology.
However the more recent liturgy mentions her by name in our services and prayers. All the traditional services relating to her, are continued in the liturgy.
The only Anglican Dogma relating to Mary is as the mother of Jesus .(Theotokos)

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There is more than one problem that comes to mind when considering the virgin birth.
They are primarily in relation to Joseph


Some time after the conception of Jesus, Joseph married Mary, and was to continue as her husband for many years.


Jesus was conceived of an unmarried woman.....This would be considered sinful by most Jews and Christians, even today.


The marriage to Joseph regularised the position in the public view.
However the conception would still have been thought sinful between any three other people, as it was outside marriage.


There is no mention, or inference, in the Bible that the marriage between Mary and Joseph was nominal or purely platonic. In fact it would be thought highly unusual for such a marriage to survive. There are several mentions of Jesus “Brothers” and there is no evidence that these are other than the sons of Mary, fathered by Joseph.


The Catholic Church takes a wholly unrealistic view, that Mary was and remained a Virgin.
I think it does so to avoid discussion on any of the above. And to remove any hint of a sex act by Mary. This conforms to their view that sex is sinful and is only mitigated by conception in marriage.


This is reinforced by the belief in the sinful and carnal nature of Eve, allied to belief in original sin.


To remove the status of Mary, as a perpetual virgin, seriously undermines the Catholic views about the sinful nature of sex.


It is difficult to explain why God placed Mary in the sinful position of becoming an unmarried mother. . . That she was betrothed to Joseph hardly improves the situation.