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Christians only; How literally do you take the Bible?

an anarchist

Your local loco.
So when Paul says "if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" that's not "100% literal"?
He is obviously not referencing the nazarite vow, rather, another topic entirely. It appears more to be in reference with established customs of etiquette of the Hebrew people, but I’m not sure. I think connecting these two separated verses to create a “contradiction” is silly, especially when it could be refuted. The author himself was a Nazarite
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
He is obviously not referencing the nazarite vow, rather, another topic entirely. It appears more to be in reference with established customs of etiquette of the Hebrew people, but I’m not sure. I think connecting these two separated verses to create a “contradiction” is silly, especially when it could be refuted. The author himself was a Nazarite
If you have to wrap it in a caveat like that, it's not "100% literal" is it? There's plenty of others. Want to try a different one?
 

InChrist

Free4ever
As (you'd probably agree) do most all other Christians (that believe). But the most needed change in reading for everyone is for us all to stop telling the text what it is about, and to begin truly listening. That way we can avoid getting hung up on trivialities that have no significance at all (not even a bit) like how big was the Flood, and instead get the real messages the words are meant to convey to us. In brief, people need to stop debating or pontificating while they read, and truly listen. The last thing that would matter to us then would be how big the Flood was, as we get blown away by the real messages in the text.
Yes, I believe it’s important to let the scriptures speak for and interpret themselves, rather than superimpose our own ideas or opinions upon them. Let God speak and believe what He says...that’s my perspective.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Very cute video and I agree way more close to the Bible's account that most other presentations I have seen.
I liked the way the ark itself was presented...not as some kind of ship, but as a floating box. That is what an ark is after all...a container to hold things that are precious....like the Ark of the Covenant. :)

Loved the kangaroos too :D
Yes. One thing I appreciate about the producers, is that one can see, a lot of research, goes into trying to be as accurate as possible.
Another thing I like is the artwork. The animators are good! Oh, and good lessons... and funny too.
t2007.gif

I probably watched all of them, and keep looking for more.
t2028.gif


Regarding the ark though, they really took the time to consider what some skeptics might not consider. They would be work to do on the ark - cleaning the pens, just as we do, with our animals. Disposing of waste would not require scientific knowledge ... overboard it went.

Also, something else we do, when we get animals, is we buy the young. No one buys an old sheep. God would obviously know that the young animals would be ideal, for all the right reasons. So we don't expect Noah had to feed huge mammoth elephants for a ye\ar.

...and early to rise... early to work. The ark was kept clean, as the video shows.
Come to think of it, it looks cleaner than some people's homes. :grin:
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Yes. One thing I appreciate about the producers, is that one can see, a lot of research, goes into trying to be as accurate as possible.
Another thing I like is the artwork. The animators are good! Oh, and good lessons... and funny too.
t2007.gif

I probably watched all of them, and keep looking for more.
t2028.gif


Regarding the ark though, they really took the time to consider what some skeptics might not consider. They would be work to do on the ark - cleaning the pens, just as we do, with our animals. Disposing of waste would not require scientific knowledge ... overboard it went.

Also, something else we do, when we get animals, is we buy the young. No one buys an old sheep. God would obviously know that the young animals would be ideal, for all the right reasons. So we don't expect Noah had to feed huge mammoth elephants for a ye\ar.

...and early to rise... early to work. The ark was kept clean, as the video shows.
Come to think of it, it looks cleaner than some people's homes. :grin:
heh, in terms of imagining the ark, the sensible idea in that recent big budget Noah movie (2014, with Russell Crowe, Jennifer Connelly, Ray Winstone, Anthony Hopkins -- pretty entertaining!) -- was that the animals all were put to sleep, basically a total hibernation. So, Russell Crowe didn't have to clean any pens ;) (while things like how much, how big etc. are trivial side distractions to the much deeper things actually in the text, one could pack in a lot of animals if they were all just sleeping like the dead the whole while)

Ah, I found a trailer for it: (while barely any of it expected to be just like events perhaps, it was fun to watch, almost as good as the trailer much of the time)
 
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Jack Reynolds

Thinking
So what is metaphor is decided through thematic interpretation, is what I’m gathering. I think this is valid, I know many of my beliefs on Bible philosophy is based on thematic interpretation.
I’ll have to reread the Bible again, but next time I do I’ll be looking specifically this, the themes and alluded metaphors.
Matthew: 24-29 is a prime example. The references of the falling stars, moon stops shining etc. are actually about Jewish proclivities. Nothing literal. Few are aware.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
heh, in terms of imagining the ark, the sensible idea in that recent big budget Noah movie (2014, with Russell Crowe, Jennifer Connelly, Ray Winstone, Anthony Hopkins -- pretty entertaining!) -- was that the animals all were put to sleep, basically a total hibernation. So, Russell Crowe didn't have to clean any pens ;) (while things like how much, how big etc. are trivial side distractions to the much deeper things actually in the text, one could pack in a lot of animals if they were all just sleeping like the dead the whole while)

Ah, I found a trailer for it: (while barely any of it expected to be just like events perhaps, it was fun to watch, almost as good as the trailer much of the time)
Some imagination.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
More than a little -- they imagined all sorts of stuff to fill in the blanks. I'd recommend it to anyone as fun to watch.
That's entertainment for you. I tend to watch things not merely to be entertained though. If they go too far, it turns me off, especially where the Bible is concerned.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
That's entertainment for you. I tend to watch things not merely to be entertained though. If they go too far, it turns me off, especially where the Bible is concerned.
Agree! Emphatically.

In this movie, I didn't see any truly serious problems to object to actually, and I often do in movies. It might be if a person has one esoteric detail of some kind about angels they prefer, they might decide the angels in the movie aren't enough like that. But I didn't see a truly serious problem in the movie.

But a far better movie would be Polycarp (available on Amazon) -- which is actually quite a Christian movie that is so encouraging and wonderful. Polycarp was one who learned directly from John, it is thought.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
More than a little -- they imagined all sorts of stuff to fill in the blanks. I'd recommend it to anyone as fun to watch.
Exactly! I actually love watching Biblical epics just to pick the ‘imaginative licence’ taken with them. There were way more in that one than in most. Talk about filling out the story with things never mentioned in the Bible! :rolleyes: Probably about 90% fiction......never let the truth get in the way of a good story though....right? :p
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Some Christians believe that Jesus died and was literally resurrected three days later. Yet they won’t believe the literal account of the flood, for example.
One belief is required and the other belief isn't. This follows from something I've been reading about the catholic church. Christians are required to believe certain things just as Jews are required to believe certain things. You simply believe these things. You don't use proofs or hypnosis. You just do it. You hold hands and say amen at the prayer. For some people this is easy, but others object. You don't have to go through mental arguments and figure out how to believe.

What metric is used in deciding what is to be literally believed and what is not? If you don’t believe one part of the Bible, why do you believe the other?
Doing what it wants is what is important. I literally do what the whole Bible wants, and passages in it tell me not to literally believe the whole Bible. Therefore by not believing the whole thing literally I do what it wants.
 

Stonetree

Abducted Member
Premium Member
Genesis with Adam and Eve established the reason for Original sin. Original sin and the closing of heaven was theorized to be the reason for the suffering of Christ. Christ was sent to open the gates of heaven. At the Baptism of infants the priest washes away Original sin. I,personally, do not believe an infant can be in the state of sin. Genesis is the story of mankind being disobedient to some theoretical order from God. Would God forbid man to use or want intelligence? I was taught the Bible is the 'Inspired Word" of God; as if the human author's hands were guided by God. More recent work of Bible scholars indicate so many problems with past interpolations and it seems there were many more scribes than originally taught by the Church. I am running on, best to stop.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Genesis with Adam and Eve established the reason for Original sin. Original sin and the closing of heaven was theorized to be the reason for the suffering of Christ. Christ was sent to open the gates of heaven. At the Baptism of infants the priest washes away Original sin. I,personally, do not believe an infant can be in the state of sin. Genesis is the story of mankind being disobedient to some theoretical order from God. Would God forbid man to use or want intelligence? I was taught the Bible is the 'Inspired Word" of God; as if the human author's hands were guided by God. More recent work of Bible scholars indicate so many problems with past interpolations and it seems there were many more scribes than originally taught by the Church. I am running on, best to stop.
Way back in the 60s, I was taught, by my fairly traditionalist parish priest, that Original Sin is the intrinsic disposition of mankind towards sinfulness. In other words a moral weakness. It has always seemed to me that the allegory of eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (not the tree of knowledge, please note) is a metaphor for Man's acquisition of moral awareness as he arose from the other apes. This awareness brings with it an obligation to act morally - which Man often fails to do. So I see it as a loss of innocence, as happens when a child grows up - which is a bittersweet thing, is it not?

There are many different schools of thought as to what the Atonement really signifies. I have always been appalled by the notion that God would demand a blood sacrifice for the sins of mankind. It seems to me this might have appealed in ancient times when blood sacrifices or burnt offerings were part of the religious tradition, but not something we have to accept today. The one that makes most sense to me is the "moral influence" theory, espoused by Abelard. But there are others, all perfectly respectable and orthodox.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
There are many different schools of thought as to what the Atonement really signifies. I have always been appalled by the notion that God would demand a blood sacrifice for the sins of mankind. It seems to me this might have appealed in ancient times when blood sacrifices or burnt offerings were part of the religious tradition, but not something we have to accept today. The one that makes most sense to me is the "moral influence" theory, espoused by Abelard. But there are others, all perfectly respectable and orthodox.

It seems to me that unless Jesus was offering His life, in love, as an atoning sacrifice, then there was no point to His coming to die and so no moral influence.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
It seems to me that unless Jesus was offering His life, in love, as an atoning sacrifice, then there was no point to His coming to die and so no moral influence.
To add to my previous post, one can elaborate an argument as follows:

God is supposed to be all-powerful. So, if He demanded an atoning sacrifice, it was because He decided to make a rule to that effect. Because there can be no metaphysical law that God is forced to abide by. By definition, it is He who makes the rules. Right?

But God is also ever-loving. Why, then, would He choose to make such a brutal and sadistic demand, when it was not necessary for Him to do so? Abelard would argue it was to show Mankind a perfect example of selfless love for Man: to give Man an example to follow.

Moral influence, in other words.
 
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