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Christians Only: Jesus, The good shepherd?

SCHIZO

Active Member
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd.

Matt 10:16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.

How could Jesus be the good shepherd if he sends his sheep to the wolves? This is what I find hypocrytical about Christ, He says he is the good shepherd yet he throws you to the wolves. Any thoughts on the matter?
 
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SCHIZO

Active Member
haha it's fun to do that. My favorite is:

"Judas hung himself"

"Go and do likewise"

To judge and compare is the way to measure and determine. If the Word of God is true all parts must be in agreement. You can't say something is one way, contradict yourself, then say it is the truth. Jesus says that he is the good shepherd. Then in contradiction of that statement, says he is handing you over to the wolves. Then say it is the truth.

A good shepherd does not hand over his sheep to the wolves. That would be the truth because there is no contradiction and both parts are in agreement.

Where Jesus says I am the good shepherd and I send you to the wolves. These two statements are not in agreement, therefore, they are not the truth. That is to judge and compare.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
To judge and compare is the way to measure and determine. If the Word of God is true all parts must be in agreement. You can't say something is one way, contradict yourself, then say it is the truth. Jesus says that he is the good shepherd. Then in contradiction of that statement, says he is handing you over to the wolves. Then say it is the truth.

A good shepherd does not hand over his sheep to the wolves. That would be the truth because there is no contradiction and both parts are in agreement.

Where Jesus says I am the good shepherd and I send you to the wolves. These two statements are not in agreement, therefore, they are not the truth. That is to judge and compare.

No, you're the one contradicting yourself. You shouldn't project that fallacy onto anyone else.

You're mixing metaphors.

You're taking from Matthew and meshing it with John, a book written much later and to a different audience.

So yes. If you combine thoughtless interpretative technique and abandon all common sense, you can pretend that there's a contradiction here.

But as it stands, the two sayings are completely unrelated and should be treated as such.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
However, I am entertained by this and I thank you.

If you're going to make something up, at least make it entertaining -- and you have accomplished that.

I'd never heard of such a gross misreading of these texts. :biglaugh:
 

gdemoss

servant
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
 

SCHIZO

Active Member
No, you're the one contradicting yourself. You shouldn't project that fallacy onto anyone else.

You're mixing metaphors.

You're taking from Matthew and meshing it with John, a book written much later and to a different audience.

So yes. If you combine thoughtless interpretative technique and abandon all common sense, you can pretend that there's a contradiction here.

But as it stands, the two sayings are completely unrelated and should be treated as such.

Isn't it common Christian belief that all of Scripture is divinely inspired and therefore congruent? If one part of scripture does not agree with another part of scripture a contradiction occurs. That's not thoughtless interpretation. That is logical proof within reason.

If you take a belief and say that the bible is divinely inspired and therefore the truth. But you have two or more things contained within that do not agree with eachother then how could it be the truth? Whether it is contained in one book of the bible or the next, all things contained within the bible are dependent upon eachother. If they do not all come into agreement then how could someone say that the bible is divinely inspired and therefore the truth?

I don't pretend there's a contradiction. Any good shepherd would know that in order to be a good shepherd you do not turn your flock over to the wolves. No contradiction there.

Jesus says, I am the good shepherd. Then he says, I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. There is the contradiction. How does the good shepherd send his sheep to the wolves? The two things contradict eachother. A good shepherd does not send his sheep to the wolves.

The two sayings are completely related. First of all he says he is the good shepherd then he talks about sending sheep into the midst of wolves.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Christ ain't the king of nothing.

Then why get bent out of shape about a stupid interpretation of those Scriptures in the OP?

Make up yer melon. Do you hate Jesus as a shepherd or despise him as a king?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Isn't it common Christian belief that all of Scripture is divinely inspired and therefore congruent? If one part of scripture does not agree with another part of scripture a contradiction occurs. That's not thoughtless interpretation. That is logical proof within reason.

If you take a belief and say that the bible is divinely inspired and therefore the truth. But you have two or more things contained within that do not agree with eachother then how could it be the truth? Whether it is contained in one book of the bible or the next, all things contained within the bible are dependent upon eachother. If they do not all come into agreement then how could someone say that the bible is divinely inspired and therefore the truth?

I don't pretend there's a contradiction. Any good shepherd would know that in order to be a good shepherd you do not turn your flock over to the wolves. No contradiction there.

Jesus says, I am the good shepherd. Then he says, I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. There is the contradiction. How does the good shepherd send his sheep to the wolves? The two things contradict eachother. A good shepherd does not send his sheep to the wolves.

The two sayings are completely related. First of all he says he is the good shepherd then he talks about sending sheep into the midst of wolves.

A good farmer doesn't eat roasted lemons.

So Jesus is a poor farmer.

Yankee Doodle Day
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
***Mod post***

This thread has been moved to the Same Faith Debates forum.​
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd.

Matt 10:16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.

How could Jesus be the good shepherd if he sends his sheep to the wolves? This is what I find hypocrytical about Christ, He says he is the good shepherd yet he throws you to the wolves. Any thoughts on the matter?
What I find is you taking verses out of context. When I see what you post I think, who said this, why they said this, what was going on, where were they, whats the meaning, etc.

It seems a bit..stupid.
 

not nom

Well-Known Member
I don't pretend there's a contradiction. Any good shepherd would know that in order to be a good shepherd you do not turn your flock over to the wolves. No contradiction there.

"sending into the midst of" =/= "turning over to"


but if you want contradiction, no need to look that far. god is all knowing, right? yet he was looking for adam and eve in the garden, who hid from god... uhm, what? o_O

yet whenever I bring that up, it gets ignored without fail. I have not received a single answer to it, much less a good one. not that I'm looking for one now, it's off-topic... but contradictions in the bible? sure... what's your point with that though? "hah, you have to throw the bible away"? well no, people usually pick and choose anyway.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd.

Matt 10:16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.

How could Jesus be the good shepherd if he sends his sheep to the wolves? This is what I find hypocrytical about Christ, He says he is the good shepherd yet he throws you to the wolves. Any thoughts on the matter?

Because he didn't leave us leaderless and defenseless against the wolves. He's given us instructions on how to deal with the fact that wolves are a big part of this world.


Matthew 10: 16I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.</SPAN>
17&#8220;Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues.</SPAN> 18On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles.</SPAN> 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say,</SPAN> 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.</SPAN>
 
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javajo

Well-Known Member
Here is how great a shepherd Jesus is:

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10

Read all of John 10 to see how wonderful a shepherd Jesus is, he loves his sheep and will not lose a one.
 

Shermana

Heretic
The implication is that the Sheep would be able to stand up against and defeat the wolves, now that's a good shepherd!
 
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd.

Matt 10:16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.

How could Jesus be the good shepherd if he sends his sheep to the wolves? This is what I find hypocrytical about Christ, He says he is the good shepherd yet he throws you to the wolves. Any thoughts on the matter?

If you care to have another perspective here, I would just say that the Matthew 10 passage is directed toward the 12 Apostles specifically and refers to the difficulties they would face in their ministries. However, the John passage is one of a long series of parables taught by Jesus to a larger group of people.
 
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