Christians Only: The Case Against Hell

[LoveNeverFails]

Slaughtering entire villages, stoning girls for premarital sex, sacrificing countless animals, I would say Israel was a part of the Barbaric cultures.

Yes, I would say that in general mankind was quite barbaric back then, wouldn't you?

 

[Vassal]

Matthew 25:41 clearly states that hell was created, and vs. 46 goes on to say that the wicked will be punished there forever. There is no need for pages of arguements, it is plainly stated in Matthew 25.

 

[MaddLlama]

Matthew 25:41 clearly states that hell was created, and vs. 46 goes on to say that the wicked will be punished there forever. There is no need for pages of arguements, it is plainly stated in Matthew 25.

So glad we got that cleared up

 

[blackout]

This youTube series, by a christian, explores the historical meanings of sheol hades and gehenna.

I found it to be a well done video series and very interesting.

What About Hell? part 1 of 4

 

[LoveNeverFails]

Matthew 25:41 clearly states that hell was created, and vs. 46 goes on to say that the wicked will be punished there forever. There is no need for pages of arguements, it is plainly stated in Matthew 25.

I have never seen the wisdom in taking 1 scripture and throwing out the rest of the Bible. The Bible says that man shall live by EVERY word that comes from God. If that is true, we must seek to harmonize scripture, or we must throw out all of the over 600 scriptures that state God saves EVERYONE.

 

[LoveNeverFails]

This youTube series, by a christian, explores the historical meanings of sheol hades and gehenna.

I found it to be a well done video series and very interesting.

What About Hell? part 1 of 4

I'm actually aware of this! A myspace friend of mine let me know about it...but my computer is so old it won't play the video.

 

[rocka21]

I believe that Hell will be emptied. I believe the Lake of Fire, according to the original Greek words used to describe it, is actually a Harbor or Haven of Divine Purification. The hell-fire is literally the power of God--the Refiner's Fire.

do you have the greek words for these? why do you believe this?

 

[Katzpur]

I have never seen the wisdom in taking 1 scripture and throwing out the rest of the Bible. The Bible says that man shall live by EVERY word that comes from God. If that is true, we must seek to harmonize scripture, or we must throw out all of the over 600 scriptures that state God saves EVERYONE.

Romans 14:11 states, "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." If every knee shall bow to Christ, that sounds pretty much like universal acknowledgement of Christ's divinity to me.

 

[Vassal]

I have never seen the wisdom in taking 1 scripture and throwing out the rest of the Bible. The Bible says that man shall live by EVERY word that comes from God. If that is true, we must seek to harmonize scripture, or we must throw out all of the over 600 scriptures that state God saves EVERYONE.

Well then it shouldn't be to hard to show me even one place in the Bible where a person was saved without faith, should it?

 

[Hope]

Romans 14:11 states, "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." If every knee shall bow to Christ, that sounds pretty much like universal acknowledgement of Christ's divinity to me.

But acknowledgement is not the same thing as salvation.

Even the demons bow the knee to and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord.

 

[LoveNeverFails]

do you have the greek words for these?

The Lake of Fire

FIRE is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really HEAT and LIGHT. In my study of the lake that burns with fire and brimstone I was very much helped and impressed by the understanding given by Charles Pridgeon and I would like to quote from his scholarly work on the subject of BRIMSTONE. He says: "The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it" -end quote.

why do you believe this?

Because I believe that Jesus did not fail when He died to save the world.

 

[Katzpur]

But acknowledgement is not the same thing as salvation.

Even the demons bow the knee to and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord.

You're right. Still, I lean towards a far more universal salvation than do most Christians, but with the LDS interpretation as my backup.

 

[rocka21]

The Lake of Fire

FIRE is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really HEAT and LIGHT. In my study of the lake that burns with fire and brimstone I was very much helped and impressed by the understanding given by Charles Pridgeon and I would like to quote from his scholarly work on the subject of BRIMSTONE. He says: "The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it" -end quote.



Because I believe that Jesus did not fail when He died to save the world.

so why is there weeping and nashing of teeth?

 

[Melissa G]

If you want proof of hell, just watch the movie, Event Horizon....

Melissa G

 

[LoveNeverFails]

so why is there weeping and nashing of teeth?

Again, the idea of judgement need not be excluded. I'm sure hell, whatever it really is, is not a pleasant experience.

 

[rocka21]

Again, the idea of judgement need not be excluded. I'm sure hell, whatever it really is, is not a pleasant experience.

they why worry about " what " it is? why not Just don't go there?

you believe Jesus on the cross saves " everyone"?

why did he and Paul talk about people not going to heaven?

 

[Vassal]

If you want proof of hell, just watch the movie, Event Horizon....

Melissa G

I remember that movie. I must have been like 12 when I first saw it, and I was watching it alone. Not a good idea...

 

[LoveNeverFails]

they why worry about " what " it is? why not Just don't go there?

Because the idea of an omnimax God allowing most of His creation to be eternally tortured for lack of understanding blasphemes the character of God.:no:

you believe Jesus on the cross saves " everyone"?

1 John 2:2 says "And He [that same Jesus Himself] is the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins, and not for ours alone but also for [the sins of] the whole world."

This is one of many verses in the Bible that firmly and contextually state that Jesus died to save the world and accomplished that!

I don't have the time to type this all out...long day and I am beat! I think the following explains it better than I could anyway. :yes:

From...

Trinitarian Universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reconciliation is through Christ Jesus
Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity and he is both fully God and fully Man. Because he created everything and everything inheres in him, all of creation was crucified and resurrected with him. (John 1:3-4), (Col. 1:15-20) Because divinity and humanity meets in him, mankind are now participants in the perichoresis or the divine dance of love within the Trinity. [9]

• Universal atonement of sins

Jesus Christ's death on the cross paid the price for the sins of the world (Rom. 5:15-19) and all men are reconciled to God (2 Cor. 5:19). No human being is alienated from God as He is their only source of life (John 1:3-4) and in Him they live and move and have their being. (Acts 17:28) [10] Because all sins have been paid for, all sins are forgiven. Divine forgiveness precedes human response and this forgiveness is both love and judgment because to say, "I forgive you" is to say "I love you" and "You have sinned against me". Man can respond by agreeing with the judgment (repentance) and receive both the love and forgiveness or he can deny the judgment and refuse God's love and forgiveness.

• Salvation is an objective reality and a subjective reality

A personal response of faith is required before the objective saving act of God is made subjectively real in the individual's life. The response is transformative and changes with knowledge and experience. What has been accomplished for all mankind must be accomplished in each person's life which requires the individual's cooperation with the Holy Spirit. God is love and man is loved but he must be in relationship with Him to know that love. It is the difference between being and knowing.

• Hell, as described in the bible, exists

It is partially here as the Kingdom of Darkness that all men are born into. It will be fully present for those who persist in rejecting God's gift of salvation. However, God's grace and gift of faith reaches everyone while they are dead in their sins (Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13) and there is no biblical text that says His mercy and gift of salvation will end when one dies physically.[12] Jesus Christ is proclaimed to be the Lord of the dead and the living (Rom. 14:9).

• Hell is not retribution but rehabilitation

The suffering in hell is the anguish of a soul persisting in rebellion against God, or the shame of a soul when it realizes how much it has sinned against a holy God as well as profound regret for what might have been. [13]

• The Good News is about the Kingdom of God

The mission is not just to save people from hell but to bring them out of the Kingdom of Darkness and into the Kingdom of Light. All moral law can be summed up by the two Great Commandments: Love God and Love Others (Rom. 13:8-10) and these two commands are not distinct and exclusive. To love God is to love others and to love others is to love God.

• Wrath and judgment is another face of Love

God's love is passionate and people can grieve Him (Eph. 4:30) by thwarting His love and His good intentions toward them. If man hurts himself or others, he will experience that divine love as wrath. Judgment accompanies wrath and judgment is salvific. It is a fire that purifies and refines, not one that destroys. If man is not judged and if he does not feel God's wrath, he will not be aware that he has sinned. Judgment and wrath encourages a man to stop what he is doing and repent (turn around). Then he will know forgiveness and feel God's love turn from wrath to warmth. [14]

• True justice is restoration and reconciliation

Justice is not fully met by punishing wrongdoers. True justice is

• restoration of what was stolen or destroyed
• repentance and reformation of the sinner
• reconciliation between the sinner and God and the person(s) sinned against

• The final word God speaks to Mankind is always reconciliation and redemption

Sodom is portrayed as a very wicked place that was judged by God and destroyed by burning sulfur (Gen. 19:1-29). Jude writes that they "suffered the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 1:7). But Jesus knew what circumstances would have brought the people of Sodom to repentance and aknowledgement of God (Matt. 11:23). The last word God speaks over Sodom is restoration in an eschatological prophecy by Ezekiel (Ezk. 16:53-55).
Biblical passages which support Universalism

• Romans 5:12-20
• 1 Corinthians 15:20-28
• 2 Corinthians 5:18-21
• Colossians 1:15-23
• Philippians 2:9-11
• 1 Timothy 2:3-6

why did he and Paul talk about people not going to heaven?

They both also talked of universal reconciliation, but church tradition has glossed over or misconstrued these verses for thousands of years. Did you know that the early church was majority universalist for the first 500 years of Christianity? Only when those who studied the Latin and not the original languages of the canon asserted their power did the doctrine of hell take hold...and a powerful hold it was, as history can attest.:areyoucra

 

[LoveNeverFails]

I remember that movie. I must have been like 12 when I first saw it, and I was watching it alone. Not a good idea...

Dude, this movie scared the crap outta me when I saw it! Of course, at the time I saw it I still believed in an eternal hellhole of literal torture for most of mankind...so that kinda added to it!:cover::sarcastic

 

[Katzpur]

Dude, this movie scared the crap outta me when I saw it! Of course, at the time I saw it I still believed in an eternal hellhole of literal torture for most of mankind...so that kinda added to it!:cover::sarcastic

Okay, now I've got to see it.