Christians only: What was God's purpose in creating you?

[love]

I know of nothing that I can do for God that He cannot do for Himself. The Lord would not ask me to harm another. If one comes to you and says it is God's will to harm another he is a liar. Unless God reveals Himself to you personally don't believe the lies of men.

 

[Katzpur]

God created all things for His own glory. That includes me, you, and unbelievers too.

Your statement probably seems pretty straightforward to you, but would you mind clarifying it for me. I wonder if I'm reading something into it that you didn't mean to say. (Welcome to RF, by the way. )

 

[bible truth]

Your statement probably seems pretty straightforward to you, but would you mind clarifying it for me. I wonder if I'm reading something into it that you didn't mean to say. (Welcome to RF, by the way. )

Hi Katzpur,

Thank you for the warm welcome and allowing me to clarify my statement. Yes, I make that statement within the context of "Historical Biblical Christianity" or revelation of "Scripture alone". I reject all extra-biblical revelation. Therefore, I proclaim Biblical truths such as God is light, in Him there is no darkness at all. God cannot lie; God cannot sin; God cannot do anything evil or immoral. I hope this helps.

In Christ,
BT

 

[Katzpur]

Hi Katzpur,

Thank you for the warm welcome and allowing me to clarify my statement. Yes, I make that statement within the context of "Historical Biblical Christianity" or revelation of "Scripture alone". I reject all extra-biblical revelation. Therefore, I proclaim Biblical truths such as God is light, in Him there is no darkness at all. God cannot lie; God cannot sin; God cannot do anything evil or immoral. I hope this helps.

In Christ,
BT

I'm still confused. (Sorry, I must be kind of dense today.) You said that God created all things for His own glory. Then you said that God does not need mankind's love to be glorified. I'm trying to reconcile these two statements. How did God creating all things bring Him glory?

Also, you said that unbelievers as well as believers were created for God's glory, but also that unbelievers are His enemies and that His wrath abides on them. If He doesn't need our love to be glorified, why would the lack of our love incur His wrath?

I just realized that I never answered my own questions (i.e. the ones I posed in my OP). So, here are those questions again, with my answers:

Why do you believe God created you? What was His purpose in giving you life?

I believe that God created us that we might have joy and that God's work and glory are to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life.

And what do you need to do in order that your existence was not a waste of His time? What does He expect of you in order that His purpose in putting you here on Earth be fulfilled? In other words, what can you do to make God happy?

I don't really believe that there is anything I could do to make my existence a waste of His time, but I do believe that He expects me to attain my full potential and to strive me be as much like His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, as possible. To the extent that I become what He has given me the means to become, I am magnifying His glory.

 

[PureX]

God is love. Yes, one of the amazing attributes of God is divine love. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us (believers). What do you think about God's attributes of Holiness, righteousness, justice, and wrath? How do you reconcile God's love with all these other attributes? God's wrath against all who are in rebellion against Him is also spoken of, as well as His attribute of love (for those who have been reconciled to Him). The Bible also teaches that God is independent from man. God does not need mankind's love to be glorified or satsified.

How can someone express God's love to each other if they have not been reconciled to God through Christ crucified. The Bible proclaims that all unbelievers are His enemies. God's wrath abides on all unbelievers and not the love that you are describing in your post. - BT

Those are all religious issues. Not unimportant, but not part of the primary purpose of existence, either. I'm not a religious person, and don't believe that any religion is required for us to fulfill our purpose as expressions and objects of God's love. Sin, justice, righteousness, superstition (fear of God's wrath); these are human concerns.

 

[bible truth]

I'm still confused. (Sorry, I must be kind of dense today.) You said that God created all things for His own glory. Then you said that God does not need mankind's love to be glorified. I'm trying to reconcile these two statements. How did God creating all things bring Him glory?

Also, you said that unbelievers as well as believers were created for God's glory, but also that unbelievers are His enemies and that His wrath abides on them. If He doesn't need our love to be glorified, why would the lack of our love incur His wrath?

I just realized that I never answered my own questions (i.e. the ones I posed in my OP). So, here are those questions again, with my answers:

I believe that God created us that we might have joy and that God's work and glory are to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life.

I don't really believe that there is anything I could do to make my existence a waste of His time, but I do believe that He expects me to attain my full potential and to strive me be as much like His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, as possible. To the extent that I become what He has given me the means to become, I am magnifying His glory.

Hi katzpur,

Being new to this forum, I'm trying to understand where everyone is coming from with their belief systems. This Thread is under "same faith debates" - "Christians only" is really puzzling to me. My Christian Faith is based on Sola Scriptura (Bible only) as compared to extra-biblical revelation, or restoration of an apparent apostate Historical Christian church. I don't think all who claim to be Christian are of the same faith. We believe in different Jesus’ that are mutually exclusive of each other. The LDS Church and the Roman Catholic Church have essential doctrines that I reject as truth. I believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, the eternal God. I reject the teaching that Jesus is the Spirit brother of Lucifer. I believe Angel Moroni was not from God. I believe Joseph Smith was a false prophet. I believe the work of Christ is completely sufficient for those who God predestined to be redeemed.

Since my faith is grounded by Scripture alone, I can post Scripture references to support what I declared: ‘God does everything for His own glory! I put no weight on personal opinions, including my own when understanding God and His purposes. Would you like me to post Scripture to help you understand my statements? - BT

 

[Katzpur]

Being new to this forum, I'm trying to understand where everyone is coming from with their belief systems. This Thread is under "same faith debates" - "Christians only" is really puzzling to me. My Christian Faith is based on Sola Scriptura (Bible only) as compared to extra-biblical revelation, or restoration of an apparent apostate Historical Christian church. I don't think all who claim to be Christian are of the same faith. We believe in different Jesus’ that are mutually exclusive of each other. The LDS Church and the Roman Catholic Church have essential doctrines that I reject as truth. I believe Jesus Christ is God incarnate, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, the eternal God. I reject the teaching that Jesus is the Spirit brother of Lucifer. I believe Angel Moroni was not from God. I believe Joseph Smith was a false prophet. I believe the work of Christ is completely sufficient for those who God predestined to be redeemed.

Hi BT,

Since RF is a multi-faith forum, you will probably not find the word "Christian" defined according to the same parameters as you would on a Christian forum. There are many Christians here who do not subscribe to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Roman Catholicism, of course, bases some of its doctrines on holy tradition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints bases some of its doctrines on revelation to a living prophet. For the most part, we recognize that while we do have differences of opinion, we are all Christians. We all worship Jesus Christ as the Son of God, we all look to Him as our Savior and Redeemer, and we all strive to emulate Him in our daily lives. If only the Bible were as clear on what a Christian should believe as it is on how a Christian should behave! Since it's not, we Christians interpret the Bible in a variety of ways. In the "Same Faith Debates" forum, we generally try to describe in the title of the topic being discussed exactly who we want to be able to participate. A "Same Faith Debate" could be limited to Latter-day Saints, to Christians in general, or to anyone within the Abrahamic tradition (i.e. Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Baha'is). I can accept the fact that you view some of my beliefs as false. I'm sure that I would probably view some of your beliefs as false. I believe, however, that a disciple of Jesus Christ can always be recognized by the love he feels and shows towards his fellow man.

Since my faith is grounded by Scripture alone, I can post Scripture references to support what I declared: ‘God does everything for His own glory! I put no weight on personal opinions, including my own when understanding God and His purposes. Would you like me to post Scripture to help you understand my statements?

Yes, I could like that very much. Would you also be so kind as to posting some scripture that says that Bible contains everything God wants us to know about His plan for us and that He will never speak to us again through living prophets? Thank you in advance for responding to my thread. Hopefully, over time, we will get to know one another better and you will gain a better appreciation of the beliefs of your fellow Christians.

Katzpur

 

[lunamoth]

Dawny and Purex both hit it on the nail: God created us to love and be loved.

 

[bible truth]

Hi BT,

Since RF is a multi-faith forum, you will probably not find the word "Christian" defined according to the same parameters as you would on a Christian forum. There are many Christians here who do not subscribe to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. Roman Catholicism, of course, bases some of its doctrines on holy tradition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints bases some of its doctrines on revelation to a living prophet. For the most part, we recognize that while we do have differences of opinion, we are all Christians. We all worship Jesus Christ as the Son of God, we all look to Him as our Savior and Redeemer, and we all strive to emulate Him in our daily lives. If only the Bible were as clear on what a Christian should believe as it is on how a Christian should behave! Since it's not, we Christians interpret the Bible in a variety of ways. In the "Same Faith Debates" forum, we generally try to describe in the title of the topic being discussed exactly who we want to be able to participate. A "Same Faith Debate" could be limited to Latter-day Saints, to Christians in general, or to anyone within the Abrahamic tradition (i.e. Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Baha'is). I can accept the fact that you view some of my beliefs as false. I'm sure that I would probably view some of your beliefs as false. I believe, however, that a disciple of Jesus Christ can always be recognized by the love he feels and shows towards his fellow man.


Yes, I could like that very much. Would you also be so kind as to posting some scripture that says that Bible contains everything God wants us to know about His plan for us and that He will never speak to us again through living prophets? Thank you in advance for responding to my thread. Hopefully, over time, we will get to know one another better and you will gain a better appreciation of the beliefs of your fellow Christians.

Katzpur

Hi Katzpur,

Thank you for your kind and respectful way of sharing your understanding of Christianity. I will have to depart from this Thread since our differences does not allow me to consider you a sister in Christ. I consider you the mission field due to your profession of the LDS Faith. We are divided by the person and work of Christ Himself. We believe in a different Christ. We believe in mutually exclusive gospels. It is very interesting how the LDS church has changed to appear more mainstreamed within evangelical Christianity.

Do you accept essential doctrines of Biblical Christianity such as the Trinity, justification by faith alone, righteousness of Christ alone, the finished work of Christ, predestination of the elect of God, sufficiency of Christ, sufficiency of Scripture alone, etc?

I have spoken to many Mormon missionaries in my lifetime. I know many Mormons that are co-workers and friends. I understand the claims of apostasy and the restoration of the historical Christian church. Ecumenicalism without truth is evil. Relativism is also the work of the devil. The LDS church uses the same words as the Roman Catholic Church with the term of "fullness of the gospel". There is only one gospel of God. Either God has revealed the gospel to you or not. There is no such thing as a partial understanding of the gospel.

All LDS members are the mission field. I hope and pray you come to know the historical Jesus revealed in the Bible alone. Your understanding of Jesus defined by the Church of the Latter Day Saints is of the spirit of the anti-Christ (discerned in the light of Scripture alone). I write this way so you can sober up and know that these are essential differences with eternal consequences. I will try to find another Thread where I can honestly participate in. Thanks for your warm welcome anyways. I hope to discuss these things in more appropriate Threads.

Sincerely,
BT

Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

 

[Katzpur]

Thank you for your kind and respectful way of sharing your understanding of Christianity. I will have to depart from this Thread since our differences does not allow me to consider you a sister in Christ.

Perhaps that's best. When I read your post I couldn't help but think of something Mother Teresa once said: "For you see, in the end, it is between you and God. It never was between you and them anyway." In other words, I'm sure that my Savior, Jesus Christ, knows that I am His. How wonderful it is for me to know that His opinion is really all that matters.

We are divided by the person and work of Christ Himself. We believe in a different Christ. We believe in mutually exclusive gospels.

The Christ I believe in is the Only Begotten Son of God, born to a Virgin in Bethlehem. He is the Christ who gave His life to redeem both of us of our sins and to reconcile us to God. He is the Christ who rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion and who reigns in Heaven today. I'm sorry if you believe in a different Christ than that. I didn't know until now that there was more than one.

It is very interesting how the LDS church has changed to appear more mainstreamed within evangelical Christianity.

What an odd observation. We have certainly never wished to appear "more mainstream." If this is something you've noticed, I'd say it's probably just a coincidence. Trust me, losing our identify to fit in to someone else's understanding of the truth is not something we have any intention of doing.

Do you accept essential doctrines of Biblical Christianity such as the Trinity, justification by faith alone, righteousness of Christ alone, the finished work of Christ, predestination of the elect of God, sufficiency of Christ, sufficiency of Scripture alone, etc?

The Trinity is not a Biblical doctrine, nor is the doctrine of Sola Fide, the doctrine of Predestination, or the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. If you are, however, interested in debating any of these topics with me one-on-one, just say the word.


I do believe, by the way, that Jesus Christ is my Redeemer and that He alone has the power to save me. That is a doctrine clearly taught in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. It is a doctrine I would give my life to defend.

Ecumenicalism without truth is evil. Relativism is also the work of the devil.

Although I'm not quite sure what it is you're accusing me of, my gut feeling is that this was not a compliment.

The LDS church uses the same words as the Roman Catholic Church with the term of "fullness of the gospel".

Yes we do.

There is only one gospel of God. Either God has revealed the gospel to you or not.

Yes there is, and He most definitely has.

There is no such thing as a partial understanding of the gospel.

I beg to differ. There are many clearly many levels of understanding, as evidenced by your comments.

I hope and pray you come to know the historical Jesus revealed in the Bible alone.

Please do, and I shall do the same for you.

Your understanding of Jesus defined by the Church of the Latter Day Saints is of the spirit of the anti-Christ (discerned in the light of Scripture alone). I write this way so you can sober up and know that these are essential differences with eternal consequences.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I assure you I am not only quite sober, but quite confident that when I stand before by Savior to be judged, He will welcome me with open arms. The anti-Christ has no part in my life.

I will try to find another Thread where I can honestly participate in. Thanks for your warm welcome anyways.

You're very welcome. I must say that it has been awhile since I have been told in such a pleasant way that I am going to Hell.

I hope to discuss these things in more appropriate Threads.

Rest assured that I will be contributing to most of the same Christian threads as you do. If you are unable to "honestly participate" in any discussion on topics of interest to all Christians just because Mormons are also participating, I'm afraid you're going to find yourself in a bit of a dilemma since there are quite a numbers of Latter-day Saints on this forum.

By the way, I like your signature. Ghandi was right on the money. I can certainly understand why he would say that Christians are so unlike Christ. And it's strange, too, that he had such good insight, being a non-Christian and therefore on the road to Hell himself.

 

[bible truth]

Perhaps that's best. When I read your post I couldn't help but think of something Mother Teresa once said: "For you see, in the end, it is between you and God. It never was between you and them anyway." In other words, I'm sure that my Savior, Jesus Christ, knows that I am His. How wonderful it is for me to know that His opinion is really all that matters.

The Christ I believe in is the Only Begotten Son of God, born to a Virgin in Bethlehem. He is the Christ who gave His life to redeem both of us of our sins and to reconcile us to God. He is the Christ who rose from the dead three days after His crucifixion and who reigns in Heaven today. I'm sorry if you believe in a different Christ than that. I didn't know until now that there was more than one.

What an odd observation. We have certainly never wished to appear "more mainstream." If this is something you've noticed, I'd say it's probably just a coincidence. Trust me, losing our identify to fit in to someone else's understanding of the truth is not something we have any intention of doing.

The Trinity is not a Biblical doctrine, nor is the doctrine of Sola Fide, the doctrine of Predestination, or the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. If you are, however, interested in debating any of these topics with me one-on-one, just say the word.


I do believe, by the way, that Jesus Christ is my Redeemer and that He alone has the power to save me. That is a doctrine clearly taught in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. It is a doctrine I would give my life to defend.

Although I'm not quite sure what it is you're accusing me of, my gut feeling is that this was not a compliment.

Yes we do.

Yes there is, and He most definitely has.

I beg to differ. There are many clearly many levels of understanding, as evidenced by your comments.

Please do, and I shall do the same for you.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I assure you I am not only quite sober, but quite confident that when I stand before by Savior to be judged, He will welcome me with open arms. The anti-Christ has no part in my life.

You're very welcome. I must say that it has been awhile since I have been told in such a pleasant way that I am going to Hell.

Rest assured that I will be contributing to most of the same Christian threads as you do. If you are unable to "honestly participate" in any discussion on topics of interest to all Christians just because Mormons are also participating, I'm afraid you're going to find yourself in a bit of a dilemma since there are quite a numbers of Latter-day Saints on this forum.

By the way, I like your signature. Ghandi was right on the money. I can certainly understand why he would say that Christians are so unlike Christ. And it's strange, too, that he had such good insight, being a non-Christian and therefore on the road to Hell himself.

Hi Katzpur,

Below is how the Apostle Paul received the gospel, according to the Holy Bible. Paul teaches that those who deviate from Paul's proclamation of the gospel is eternally condemned. We can discuss the Biblical gospel in another Thread. The LDS understanding of the gospel cannot be supported by Scripture. The LDS perversion of the gospel is in complete oppostion of Paul's gospel that he received from the Savior Himself! Therefore, extra-biblical revelation is needed to develop an entirely new gospel according to the Angel Moroni and Joseph Smith. BTW…the other sheep according to the Savior are the gentiles (not the LDS church). Since I am new to this forum, would you please start a new Thread called “Are Mormons Christians?”. I was able to participate on the similar Thread with the same questions about Roman Catholics. Both of these faiths have amazing similarities that are essentials to defining the true gospel. The LDS Church and Roman Catholic Church rely on extra-biblical revelation, and institutional authority (Magestrium, apostolic succession, modern day prophets, etc). Both the LDS Church and Roman Catholic Church reject the heart of the biblical gospel of justification by faith alone. Why is it difficult to admit that we worship and know different Saviors? We both can be wrong about knowing the living and true Christ. However, we both cannot be right. The Savior taught that if you do not believe who He claimed to be, you will die in your sins. I proclaim that Jesus Christ is God incarnate, the second person in the Godhead. God reveals Himself as the Triune almighty God. Jesus is not the Spirit brother of Lucifer as proclaimed by the LDS church. I will be looking for your Thread if you decide to create it. - BT

Galatians 1
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— and all the brothers with me,

To the churches in Galatia:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

No Other Gospel
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Paul Called by God
I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.

Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days. I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie. Later I went to Syria and Cilicia. I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. They only heard the report: "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy." And they praised God because of me.

 

[Katzpur]

BT, I would be happy to start such a thread. I am assuming that you want this to be a debate thread. What I would like to know is whether you would prefer that we engage in a one-on-one debate (no one else would be allowed to participate), or a debate in which only "Christians" could participate (that would include anyone who considers himself to be a Christian), or a debate in which anyone on the forum could participate. Please let me know, and I will start the thread.

 

[bible truth]

BT, I would be happy to start such a thread. I am assuming that you want this to be a debate thread. What I would like to know is whether you would prefer that we engage in a one-on-one debate (no one else would be allowed to participate), or a debate in which only "Christians" could participate (that would include anyone who considers himself to be a Christian), or a debate in which anyone on the forum could participate. Please let me know, and I will start the thread.

Hi my Mormon friend,

I believe God saves sinners. Therefore, let's open it to all who have been granted spiritual ears to hear.

Your friend,
BT

 

[Bishka]

By the way, I like your signature. Ghandi was right on the money. I can certainly understand why he would say that Christians are so unlike Christ. And it's strange, too, that he had such good insight, being a non-Christian and therefore on the road to Hell himself.

Please tell me this is a joke. So Ghandi wasn't going to hell, but Mormons are?

 

[Carol wis]

Why did God make us? I believe God made us to know Him, to Love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in Heaven. Faith is a man's response to God, who reveals Himself and gives Himself to man, and at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Blessings Carol wis

 

[Carol wis]

Hi everybody, I believe God made us to know Him, to Love Him and to serve Him in this world and to be happy with Him forever in Heaven. Faith is a man's response to God, who reveals Himself and gives Himself to man, and at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as a man searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Blessing Carol wis

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Why do you believe God created you?

The greatest gift to woman.

 

[Katzpur]

Hi everybody, I believe God made us to know Him, to Love Him and to serve Him in this world and to be happy with Him forever in Heaven. Faith is a man's response to God, who reveals Himself and gives Himself to man, and at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as a man searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Blessing Carol wis

Thanks for your comments, Carol. Could I ask you what you believe "being happen with Him forever in Heaven" means to you as a Catholic?

 

[Carol wis]

Hi Katzpur, I have to start first by saying I love your little kittycat, what a cutie pie. And you, your so lucky to live in beautiful Salt Lake city, those mountains, wow. "being happy forever in Heaven" My Church tells me that God promises this to us. Heaven is the state of everlasting life in which we see God face to face, are made like unto Him in glory, and enjoy eternal happiness. In our Creed, we say at one part "seen and unseen". I bet you could agree on the unseen part, I don't know of anyone who as ever been to Heaven and came back. God as never failed me yet, I like you, know He never goes back on His Word. I use my imagination at times, like in my loving God, loving other people, in everything God made on this earth, everything good from God and in Heaven God magnifying all of this to such a level... unknown to us here, to even comprehend with our little human brains. Peace Carl wis

 

[lowrider]

Bingo! We have a winner.

"I believe the scriptural position is that He created us for His own good pleasure."
sandy whitelinger