Christians: please help me out with this

[Chadley]

God knows everything. It created everything. It knows no time since it always was and always will be. There isn't a decision you could ever make that god didn't know you were going to make. God knew before it ever created you, whether or not you were destined for heaven. So my question is, How is life a test?

 

[Sheila]

We are all immortal beings temporarily housed within a body as a test of Love, trust, obedience and faith towards God. Life is a test, the Bible is the instruction book, with judgment as the final exam. With Adam and Eve we chose the path of knowledge of good and evil.
If we love God and His ways, we will chose to obey Him, If we believe that He is true and Holy--we will have the trust and faith to do so. God knows everything--we don't. Nobody is predestined for Hell nor predestined for heaven. It's our choice to be obedient or willfully disobedient. It's not a free choice, we'll pay for the wrong choice.
God is the head, brain and life of His body of believers and his name is Jesus Christ.
Y'shua Bless You

 

[Me Myself]

We are all immortal beings temporarily housed within a body as a test of Love, trust, obedience and faith towards God. Life is a test, the Bible is the instruction book, with judgment as the final exam. With Adam and Eve we chose the path of knowledge of good and evil.
If we love God and His ways, we will chose to obey Him, If we believe that He is true and Holy--we will have the trust and faith to do so. God knows everything--we don't. Nobody is predestined for Hell nor predestined for heaven. It's our choice to be obedient or willfully disobedient. It's not a free choice, we'll pay for the wrong choice.
God is the head, brain and life of His body of believers and his name is Jesus Christ.
Y'shua Bless You

If life was only a test it would be meaningless, given the very correct assertions of the OP.


Personally, I don´t believe in hell. As you very rightly put, God knows every choice, even before creating us, so why would he create somebody that he KNOWS will choose eternal suffering? Creating such a person cannot be al oving action, and I believe in a loving God, so no, Hell cannott exist given this assertions.

 

[lunamoth]

God knows everything. It created everything. It knows no time since it always was and always will be. There isn't a decision you could ever make that god didn't know you were going to make. God knew before it ever created you, whether or not you were destined for heaven. So my question is, How is life a test?

Who says life is a test?

 

[9Westy9]

We are all immortal beings temporarily housed within a body as a test of Love, trust, obedience and faith towards God. Life is a test, the Bible is the instruction book, with judgment as the final exam. With Adam and Eve we chose the path of knowledge of good and evil.
If we love God and His ways, we will chose to obey Him, If we believe that He is true and Holy--we will have the trust and faith to do so. God knows everything--we don't. Nobody is predestined for Hell nor predestined for heaven. It's our choice to be obedient or willfully disobedient. It's not a free choice, we'll pay for the wrong choice.
God is the head, brain and life of His body of believers and his name is Jesus Christ.
Y'shua Bless You

If God knows everything then there is no choice as everything is predetermined by him. All that remains is the illusion of choice

 

[Bob Dixon]

The answer:
It isn't.

 

[Chadley]

Who says life is a test?

The existence of the Christian god says life is a test. At the root of it all it's a reward and punishment system. If you follow the word of god you get heaven. If you don't you get hell. I'm trying to understand why Christians ignore the fact that if god knew what would happen to earth before he made it, there was no point in it at all. look at it this way, I'm an atheist, so If I were to die as I'm typing this, I would go straight to hell. God already knew that. He knew it before the earth was made. So God made me, knowing that I would not love him, never change my path, and go to hell. according to God I never had a choice. That was always what was going to happen. It has to be the same for everyone else. All Christians agree god is all knowing, but they seem to forget what that type of power entails. Its a paradox. There cannot be a test if the person giving the test knew all along who would pass and who would fail.

 

[DandyAndy]

Who says life is a test?

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Chadley]

We are all immortal beings temporarily housed within a body as a test of Love, trust, obedience and faith towards God. Life is a test, the Bible is the instruction book, with judgment as the final exam. With Adam and Eve we chose the path of knowledge of good and evil.
If we love God and His ways, we will chose to obey Him, If we believe that He is true and Holy--we will have the trust and faith to do so. God knows everything--we don't. Nobody is predestined for Hell nor predestined for heaven. It's our choice to be obedient or willfully disobedient. It's not a free choice, we'll pay for the wrong choice.
God is the head, brain and life of His body of believers and his name is Jesus Christ.
Y'shua Bless You

That can't be true. If God already knows everything, life cannot be a test. Its a paradox. Ok, I'm an atheist, If I die right now, I go to Hell. But the thing is, God would have already known I would do that. God would have created me, knowing I wouldn't love him, not change my path, then go to hell. He is all knowing, he knows everything. he knows everything you are ever going to say or do. God knew if you were going to Heaven or not before he made you. my point is, If god is all knowing (which I'm sure you agree with) The testing of our love for him makes no sense because he already knew before he made us.

 

[DandyAndy]

The existence of the Christian god says life is a test. At the root of it all it's a reward and punishment system. If you follow the word of god you get heaven. If you don't you get hell. I'm trying to understand why Christians ignore the fact that if god knew what would happen to earth before he made it, there was no point in it at all. look at it this way, I'm an atheist, so If I were to die as I'm typing this, I would go straight to hell. God already knew that. He knew it before the earth was made. So God made me, knowing that I would not love him, never change my path, and go to hell. according to God I never had a choice. That was always what was going to happen. It has to be the same for everyone else. All Christians agree god is all knowing, but they seem to forget what that type of power entails. Its a paradox. There cannot be a test if the person giving the test knew all along who would pass and who would fail.

I have bolded and underlined the two parts I want to talk about further.

Why do you think the first bolded part is true?

Referring the underlined part, why does knowledge entail force? GOD knows every possible outcome of every possible action of every possible person ever, I agree, but knowing the outcome does not mean that He determined the outcome by force. Do you see the difference between knowing and forcing?

 

[Chadley]

The answer:
It isn't.

According to Christians, life is a test to prove our love for God. It absolutely has to be. Otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever. If it wasn't a test why would he care if we love him? why wouldn't he show himself all the time and hangout with us? Then why is there a heaven and a hell? Why would the temporary time on earth be necessary? Why is faith so important? to show god you can resist temptation, love him and EARN a place in heaven. That's a test

 

[Chadley]

I have bolded and underlined the two parts I want to talk about further.

Why do you think the first bolded part is true?

Referring the underlined part, why does knowledge entail force? GOD knows every possible outcome of every possible action of every possible person ever, I agree, but knowing the outcome does not mean that He determined the outcome by force. Do you see the difference between knowing and forcing?

I didn't mean God forces anything. If I typed it wrong I apologize. I meant to say that according to god there was no other way for my life to go. not by force ,that's just what I did, and knew it from the beginning.

 

[Bob Dixon]

According to Christians, life is a test to prove our love for God. It absolutely has to be. Otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever. If it wasn't a test why would he care if we love him? why wouldn't he show himself all the time and hangout with us? Then why is there a heaven and a hell? Why would the temporary time on earth be necessary? Why is faith so important? to show god you can resist temptation, love him and EARN a place in heaven. That's a test

Listen to me.

Us loving Him is for our benefit, not His.

He totally shows Himself and "hangs out" with us. He is omnipresent and panentheism (and other non-dualism) totally makes sense.

"Heaven" and "Hell" are terms from, mostly, parables. Do not let them bring you down, do not let them make you get the wrong idea about God. He is not evil.

Temporary time on Earth isn't necessary, but when the cosmic coins are flipped, look what happens.

Why is faith so important? Every person will give you a different answer.

Is it a "test"? No. "Test" implies a preparation, a tester, students, etc. Not so. Rather, life simply is, well... life! To God, it's all the same how we live; He is almighty! The highest! He doesn't actually feel human emotions and stuff. Maimonides will tell you. All these "rules" are purely for our benefit. It's like someone saying "don't cross the road when the light doesn't permit it". Are they testing you? No, just offering a useful, helpful tip.

 

[Chadley]

I have bolded and underlined the two parts I want to talk about further.

Why do you think the first bolded part is true?

Referring the underlined part, why does knowledge entail force? GOD knows every possible outcome of every possible action of every possible person ever, I agree, but knowing the outcome does not mean that He determined the outcome by force. Do you see the difference between knowing and forcing?

When you look at Christianity at its very base model, its a reward and punishment system.

 

[Chadley]

Listen to me.

Us loving Him is for our benefit, not His.

He totally shows Himself and "hangs out" with us. He is omnipresent and panentheism (and other non-dualism) totally makes sense.

"Heaven" and "Hell" are terms from, mostly, parables. Do not let them bring you down, do not let them make you get the wrong idea about God. He is not evil.

Temporary time on Earth isn't necessary, but when the cosmic coins are flipped, look what happens.

Why is faith so important? Every person will give you a different answer.

Is it a "test"? No. "Test" implies a preparation, a tester, students, etc. Not so. Rather, life simply is, well... life! To God, it's all the same how we live; He is almighty! The highest! He doesn't actually feel human emotions and stuff. Maimonides will tell you. All these "rules" are purely for our benefit. It's like someone saying "don't cross the road when the light doesn't permit it". Are they testing you? No, just offering a useful, helpful tip.

I understand what you're saying. I truly do enjoy these conversations and I hope you don't think I'm being malicious. But Christ was a teacher right? he came to PREPARE us and teach us how to enter the kingdom of heaven. Regardless who's benefits we are to take what Christ taught us, and apply it to our daily lives, in order to be rewarded with Heaven. No matter how you cut that, it's testing us to see if we are worthy of gods paradise. And "heaven" and "Hell" are just words used to describe reward/punishment. By hanging out, I meant not by use of faith. I meant god shows up at my house with cheese dip and turns my kool-aid into bud light.

 

[DandyAndy]

I didn't mean God forces anything. If I typed it wrong I apologize. I meant to say that according to god there was no other way for my life to go. not by force ,that's just what I did, and knew it from the beginning.

According to GOD your life can go ANY way, since He knows all the outcomes. I'm saying He didn't program the outcomes - He knows every possible outcome, and as a result He knows the exact outcome that will occur.

I know it seems kind of cruel to know that someone will choose Hell and yet still create that someone, but if love is your main goal (which GODs is) then you will give them the opportunity to make a choice and not force their hand. If GOD didn't love us, He would force us all to worship and obey Him and we would have no choice at all.

 

[Chadley]

According to GOD your life can go ANY way, since He knows all the outcomes. I'm saying He didn't program the outcomes - He knows every possible outcome, and as a result He knows the exact outcome that will occur.

I know it seems kind of cruel to know that someone will choose Hell and yet still create that someone, but if love is your main goal (which GODs is) then you will give them the opportunity to make a choice and not force their hand. If GOD didn't love us, He would force us all to worship and obey Him and we would have no choice at all.

EXACTLY! God never programmed any outcome of anything. God just knows the end of everything. So what does it matter what we choose? he already knows. so when you just said "give them the opportunity to make a choice and not force their hand" doesn't make sense. God cant give opportunity to change. You can't surprise him. he doesn't create you then wait to see if you love him. Then give you small faith based incidences to nudge you back on track. that would imply that he doesn't know what you are going to choose.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God knows everything. It created everything. It knows no time since it always was and always will be. There isn't a decision you could ever make that god didn't know you were going to make. God knew before it ever created you, whether or not you were destined for heaven. So my question is, How is life a test?

Destined for heaven, what about destined for earth?
Everyone who lived after Adam, between Genesis and Malachi, and died before Jesus died did not go to heaven. [John 3v13; Acts 2v34; Matt 11v11]
They will have an earthly resurrection during Jesus 1000-year reign over earth. -Hebrews 11 vs13,39

Angels and humans are all created as: free moral agents.

We are given the gift of free will so we are Not programmed robots.

God, by giving us that free-will gift, is choosing not to interfere,
or choosing not to know how we will use our God-given gift.

There would be No reason for us to be able to choose if we could not choose.
Rather, we are told of tragic consequences of choosing disobedience.

-Deut. 30v19;32v5; 28v45; James 1 vs13-15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

When you look at Christianity at its very base model, its a reward and punishment system.

Everlasting Life or permanent death as in meaning everlasting destruction.

Reward: everlasting life either in heaven, or on earth starting during Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth as his earthly subjects. -Psalm 72v8.

Punishment: everlasting death. -1st Thess 1v9
Everlasting death or destroyed forever. -Psalm 92v7
Satan is cast into 'second death'.- Rev 21v8
Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2v14 B.
So 'second death' is a fitting symbol for: destruction.

 

[james2ko]

God knows everything. It created everything. It knows no time since it always was and always will be. There isn't a decision you could ever make that god didn't know you were going to make. God knew before it ever created you, whether or not you were destined for heaven. So my question is, How is life a test?

What if God didn't know everything, would a Christian life then be considered a test?