Christians, War, and the Teachings of Christ

[angellous_evangellous]

I am by no means a pacifist, and I know that many Christians aren't either. I am actually toying with the idea of joining the military to help pay back student loans.:yes:

However, some teachings of Christ and Paul have been on my mind. It seems to me that we can't love our enemies by killing them, but by passively sacrificing ourselves.

Matthew 5:43-48 43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Romans 12:19-21 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." 20 To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[4Pillars]

I am by no means a pacifist, and I know that many Christians aren't either. I am actually toying with the idea of joining the military to help pay back student loans.:yes:

However, some teachings of Christ and Paul have been on my mind. It seems to me that we can't love our enemies by killing them, but by passively sacrificing ourselves.

If you can NOT comprehend the context of your own cited text (see above) and not sure of your outlook of the future, then, I strongly recomend that you do not join the military. Because you will only cause other US soldier' life because of your CONFUSION and lack of conviction. Have mercy on other's military families. JMHO

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If you can NOT comprehend the context of your own cited text (see above) and not sure of your outlook of the future, then, I strongly recomend that you do not join the military. Because you will only cause other US soldier' life because of your CONFUSION and lack of conviction. Have mercy on other's military families. JMHO

In what context can a soldier love his enemies? The command for the Christian is to love their enemies and provide for them - when does that end?

 

[ChristineES]

I was in the Navy for nearly 7 years and I never even carried a gun. We were required to shoot guns at targets (I did lousy). I never took a life and was never required to.
I am pretty much a pacifist.

 

[4Pillars]

In what context can a soldier love his enemies? The command for the Christian is to love their enemies and provide for them - when does that end?

First of all, they are not to be taken as your "personal enemies" but the enemies of your State. Therefore, you have to render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Do not combine apples and oranges so that you don't get confuse.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

First of all, they are not to be taken as your "personal enemies" but the enemies of your State. Therefore, you have to render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Do not combine apples and oranges so that you don't get confuse.

Would not following the commands of Christ be rendering unto God what is God's?

Is not someone who is willing to kill you a personal enemy, whether they are a soldier or not? Personal enemy = personal harm, and vice-versa.

Besides, in a democracy, is it possible to distinguish between personal and state enemies?

 

[4Pillars]

Would not following the commands of Christ be rendering unto God what is God's?

Is not someone who is willing to kill you a personal enemy, whether they are a soldier or not? Personal enemy = personal harm, and vice-versa.

Besides, in a democracy, is it possible to distinguish between personal and state enemies?

Again, first of all, you have to distinguish the difference between your "personal enemies" vs. your "state enemies". As a solider, you are just following the oders of your commanders which represent the State of War of your country.

However, if you treat them as your "personal enemies", then, you are violating the Commandment of Christ. It is the intent of the heart (murdering your enemies) that will be accountable for.

Again, do NOT combined apples and oranges that might result into a sour grape juice.

Ephesians 6: 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. v13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Again, first of all, you have to distinguish the difference between your "personal enemies" vs. your "state enemies". As a solider, you are just following the oders of your commanders which represent the State of War of your country.

However, if you treat them as your "personal enemies", then, you are violating the Commandment of Christ. It is the intent of the heart (murdering your enemies) that will be accountable for.

If you kill them, are you not treating them as your personal enemy? In a democracy, are we not personally responsible for the activities of the state, who carries out our bidding?

What could be more personal than killing someone else, rather than loving them and providing food and shelter for them (as Christ says), rather than killing (as the state says)?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Again, do NOT combined apples and oranges that might result into a sour grape juice.

I don't think that I'm the one doing that here.

Jesus taught that Christians should love our enemies, but he did not teach anything with respect to:

1) The distinction of personal and state enemies
2) The participation of Christians in state armies

He only taught that Christians should love and provide for their enemies. If a Christian has an enemy because they are enemies of his state, Jesus did not say that we should hate them (eg., kill them) but the command to love is still there.

 

[4Pillars]

If you kill them, are you not treating them as your personal enemy? In a democracy, are we not personally responsible for the activities of the state, who carries out our bidding?

What could be more personal than killing someone else, rather than loving them and providing food and shelter for them (as Christ says), rather than killing (as the state says)?

Nope! You are just doing your job to your country.

Example: As a policeman, killing a terrorist holding hostages with the intent to blows them all up, actually saves innocent lives. The same can be said during the state of war. It saves other innocent civilian lives -- most of the time.

Again, use your common sense. It's free.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Nope! You are just doing your job to your country. As a policeman, killing a terrorist holding hostages with the intent to blows them all up, actually saves innocent lives. The same can be said during the state of war. It saves innocent civilian lives -- most of the time.

A policeman is not killing an enemy - who calls a common criminal an enemy? Both in Jesus' time and ours, "enemy" is used for people who want to personally or politically destroy us. Besides, other teachings of Jesus apply to how Christians are to react to criminals: we are to give to whoever asks, and not demand retribution from one who steals.

The same logic still stands:

I don't think that I'm the one doing that here.

Jesus taught that Christians should love our enemies, but he did not teach anything with respect to:

1) The distinction of personal and state enemies [or common criminals]
2) The participation of Christians in state armies [or police forces]

He only taught that Christians should love and provide for their enemies. If a Christian has an enemy because they are enemies of his state [or are common criminals], Jesus did not say that we should hate them (eg., kill them) but the command to love is still there.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There is no excuse here for the police officer or soldier "just doing their job." Indeed, in the Christian democratic system, the police and justice system ensure that Christians don't have to turn the other cheek, give to anyone who asks, and etc. What a pathetic excuse to serve two masters, loving the state who tells you its ok to kill and hating the other, who tells you to provide for them.

Which one is worried about what they will eat, drink, and wear? Are not all wars about killing people and taking their stuff?

Matt 5

38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Love Your Enemies

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[4Pillars]

A policeman is not killing an enemy - who calls a common criminal an enemy? Both in Jesus' time and ours, "enemy" is used for people who want to personally or politically destroy us. Besides, other teachings of Jesus apply to how Christians are to react to criminals: we are to give to whoever asks, and not demand retribution from one who steals.

The same logic still stands:

Do you really think that ALL of our military soldiers, in times of war, hate their state enemies "personally" that is why they try kill them (malicious intent of the heart) or are they just trying to save their own lives during this time of imminent danger to defend themselves -- and to avoid collateral damage of other civilian lives?

Answer it directly and don't go around it this time.

 

[kai]

killing is killing is killing, don't beat around the bush here because personal enemies ,state enemies are all the same ,they are all human beings and if you kill one it cant be undone, most killing in the military is from a distance with no personal contact cold clinical execution ,think about it some more because most people who join the military don't think about it enough, believe me

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

However, some teachings of Christ and Paul have been on my mind. It seems to me that we can't love our enemies by killing them, but by passively sacrificing ourselves.

It seems like that most ideas of "just war", including Christian ones, come from the idea expressed in the Japanese saying "the sword that kills is the sword that gives life."

You can love your enemy, but still be forced to kill him if you love your enemy's victims as well. I think looking at war as an expression of love requires looking at it not so much as killing, but as defending in spite of loss of life.

Now... this still ignores what I see as other Christian teachings that can be construed to say that it's not humanity's place to engage in war, even in the case of just war. If we're not supposed to worry about where our material needs are going to come from (in keeping with Mark 6:25-34), shouldn't we not worry about where justice will come from either?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Do you really think that ALL of our military soldiers, in times of war, hate their state enemies "personally" that is why they try kill them (malicious intent of the heart) or are they just trying to save their own lives during this time of imminent danger to defend themselves -- and to avoid collateral damage of other civilian lives?

Answer it directly and don't go around it this time.

I think that all soldiers who kill definately have to dehumanize themselves to where it is possible for them tokill without hating other people - but the malicious intent is nevertheless expressed by their actions - contempt for life. Whether they hate their enemy with their hearts is not the issue - if they kill them, they are not loving them like Jesus taught. That is, Jesus did more than teach us not to hate our enemies, he taught us to love them, and loving them is providing for them.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It seems like that most ideas of "just war", including Christian ones, come from the idea expressed in the Japanese saying "the sword that kills is the sword that gives life."

You can love your enemy, but still be forced to kill him if you love your enemy's victims as well. I think looking at war as an expression of love requires looking at it not so much as killing, but as defending in spite of loss of life.

Now... this still ignores what I see as other Christian teachings that can be construed to say that it's not humanity's place to engage in war, even in the case of just war. If we're not supposed to worry about where our material needs are going to come from (in keeping with Mark 6:25-34), shouldn't we not worry about where justice will come from either?

Right on. Justice, like everything else, comes from God according to Christ. That may well be why Jesus was not interested in the state.

 

[kai]

soldiers learn to kill without feelings, no hate, no nothing, just doing their job , they walk by charred remains that were once human without even looking, like i said think long and hard because you will have plenty of time after to think about it. hopefully

 

[angellous_evangellous]

soldiers learn to kill without feelings, no hate, no nothing, just doing their job , they walk by charred remains that were once human without even looking, like i said think long and hard because you will have plenty of time after to think about it. hopefully

I'm considering being a chaplain, so I won't be killing anyone.

 

[kai]

I'm considering being a chaplain, so I won't be killing anyone.

got you, my mistake i should have known that, but what about being a cog in the killing machine? taking your pay from the same machine