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angellous_evangellous
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got you, my mistake i should have known that, but what about being a cog in the killing machine? taking your pay from the same machine
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got you, my mistake i should have known that, but what about being a cog in the killing machine? taking your pay from the same machine
I'm considering being a chaplain, so I won't be killing anyone.
Which clarifies that in both Hebrew and English there is a more than subtle difference between "killing" and "murder".
Regards,
Scott
That distinction is not made in the teachings of Christ... we are neither to kill or murder our enemies, but provide for them...
After reading a lot of good reflections I would say just don't go against your own heart and conscience because you are already weighing in the important factors and asking the right questions.I am by no means a pacifist, and I know that many Christians aren't either. I am actually toying with the idea of joining the military to help pay back student loans.:yes:
However, some teachings of Christ and Paul have been on my mind. It seems to me that we can't love our enemies by killing them, but by passively sacrificing ourselves.
The King James is "tradition" but translations from the Hebrew say "Thous shalt not murder."
I believe that Christ taught forgiveness for sure, and forgiveness is a personal responsibility. A government does not deal in forgiveness so much, and Jesus did say "render unto Caesar what is Caeswar's."
Regards,
Scott
The other half of that is "render unto God that which is God's", though. And how is even an enemy nation not a collection of individuals?Christians arer called upon to love their enemies individually. The state is required to maintain order for the benefit of its citizens or subjects. We are called upon to obey the law, and Jesus acknowledges that in saying "render unto Caesar . . ."
Do you have a God-given right to live? Personally, I would defend my own life vehemently, but I'm unclear on where this idea would come from in a Christian context.If I may add my two cents....
The command to love our enemies seems to make the most sense on a personal level and not on the national scale. For instance, would we be wrong as Christians to defend our land in the case of an invasion from a hostile country? I certainly don't believe so. Love those that persecute you in your daily lives. When an opposing faction decides to wipe an entire group of people off the face of the earth, it's time to defend your God given right to live.
Regarding rendering to Caesar, that has a specific context that is being ignored, and in any case I don't think Jesus would have considered human life the property of Caesar.
I am by no means a pacifist, and I know that many Christians aren't either. I am actually toying with the idea of joining the military to help pay back student loans.:yes:
However, some teachings of Christ and Paul have been on my mind. It seems to me that we can't love our enemies by killing them, but by passively sacrificing ourselves.
If we're to believe Revelation, it's more Jesus' style to lead the armies as a general rather than crawl through trenches like an infantryman.Here is something to contemplate; can you see Jesus in a foxhole or trench, crawling around shooting at his disciples, just because a fanatic leader of a country told him to. Remember there are people of all churches in every country. If they go to war they would be killing the very ones that Jesus died for.
If we're to believe Revelation, it's more Jesus' style to lead the armies as a general rather than crawl through trenches like an infantryman.
That's a different Jesus from the Gospels. Completely.
However, it does fit with the notion that vengeance belongs to God. The whole motivation behind Christian pacifism is that God will work out perfect justice, and in Revelation and 2 Thess, Jesus is bringing about that vengeance.
This apocalyptic Christ has a parallel in 2 Thess 2.
ESV 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.