-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christians, what do you think about Islam?
- Thread starter Luminous
- Start date
I think the creators of Islam have written Mecca into the faith history of Judaeo-Christianity but I do not believe there is any connection between anyone in all of Bible history and Mecca. Such claims were unknown until after the time of Muhammed. I believe "Adam" is a character in the two biblical creation myths of Genesis but did not build the Kaaba in Mecca. I do not believe that Abraham or Ishmael built or rebuilt the Ka'aba or ever went to Mecca (read the original Genesis account and see where Beersheba is). I do not believe that Moses or King David or anyone else in the Biblical record had any connection with Mecca.
I do not believe Mecca existed at the time of Abraham or Moses or David and I doubt that Mecca existed at the time of Jesus of Nazareth.
I believe that Islamic "history" began after the time of Muhammed. I do not believe Muhammed was a descendant of Ishmael or that he was any kind of prophet except of the high god of Arab astral religion - Allah.
I do not believe Mecca existed at the time of Abraham or Moses or David and I doubt that Mecca existed at the time of Jesus of Nazareth.
I believe that Islamic "history" began after the time of Muhammed. I do not believe Muhammed was a descendant of Ishmael or that he was any kind of prophet except of the high god of Arab astral religion - Allah.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I serve Jesus not a denomination. However I come from an American Baptist background before they started to become apostate.
I generally refer to Mohammedanism when men have twisted the Qu'ran into falsehood. As Muslims do I refer to the authentic faith that the Qu'ran represents as Islam. And by pure definition (subservience to God) I am Islamic.
The Qu'ran appears to me to be the Word of God but the Ha'dith is not. How much truth there is in the Ha'dith is debatable.
Islam is not Satanistic but that doesn't keep adherents from being influenced by the devil.
Islam isn't going anywhere. It is a dead religion like Judaism. Only Christianity is a living religion.
Jordan St. Francis
Well-Known Member
As a Catholic Christian, I regard Muslims as participating in the "Abrahamic religion", worshiping the same God as Christians and Jews, sharing in a certain common heritage and convictions, and being worthy of a level of respect that we reserve for those who imitate our common ancestor in faith.
Nostra Aetate (Our Period of Time) a document of the Second Vatican Council (also known as "The Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions") states:
Frankly, and in my opinion, Islam is an imitator of Christianity, something of its shadow, yet at the same time vying for victory over top it. Islam too seeks to liberate the heritage of Israel and make it available to the whole world, but it lacks the organic continuity with its parent religion that Christianity enjoys. Islam was not founded by Jews, and thereby misses the heart of that faith. It does not so much "open up" Israel as it tries to replace it with its own Arabian version that has been wielded to the universalist aspirations of Christianity.
Nothing is more symbolic in this than the Qu'ran as a replacement Scripture. Islam not only seeks to 'open Judaism up' but it also, in the process, repudiates it. It makes significant elements of salvation history a 'misunderstanding', it moves the gaze of the believer from Jerusalem to Mecca, whereas Christianity moves the gaze of the believer from Jerusalem to the sky and we worship ad orientem; the sun being equally and rightfully the common property of every people, culture, nation- the source of life for all. The horizontal shift of Islam, rather than the multi-dimensional shift of Christianity is noteworthy. Christianity transcends Judaism but simultaneously validates it (keeping in regard Israel's Scriptures) and maintains the narrative of Salvation History. Islam interrupts it and imposes itself as an anachronism. It lacks the theological creativity of Christianity, rather than a profound expanded interpretation of Israel's life it offers us a revisionist religion, taking no qualms with re-writing things long after the fact (ie. Ishmael and Abraham, Crucifixion of Christ ect.)
It is attempting to accomplish something similar as Christianity, but I don't really believe it has the tools to do it. Even though it is the 'fastest growing religion', I am not really concerned that it will become the final one because it fails to surpass the great surprise of Christian Revelation. This is, of course, from the perspective of an already converted Christian.
That being said, please read my comments in light of Nostra Aetate. I don't advocate disrespect for Muslims or a falicious demonizing of the Muslim faith.
Nostra Aetate (Our Period of Time) a document of the Second Vatican Council (also known as "The Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions") states:
Now, apart from this, I think Christians will naturally (and rightfully) see in Islam certain competing elements. It can not be, theologically, set up aside Judaism and be considered legitimate in the sense that we consider Judaism to have been (and in a sense continues to be).
Frankly, and in my opinion, Islam is an imitator of Christianity, something of its shadow, yet at the same time vying for victory over top it. Islam too seeks to liberate the heritage of Israel and make it available to the whole world, but it lacks the organic continuity with its parent religion that Christianity enjoys. Islam was not founded by Jews, and thereby misses the heart of that faith. It does not so much "open up" Israel as it tries to replace it with its own Arabian version that has been wielded to the universalist aspirations of Christianity.
Nothing is more symbolic in this than the Qu'ran as a replacement Scripture. Islam not only seeks to 'open Judaism up' but it also, in the process, repudiates it. It makes significant elements of salvation history a 'misunderstanding', it moves the gaze of the believer from Jerusalem to Mecca, whereas Christianity moves the gaze of the believer from Jerusalem to the sky and we worship ad orientem; the sun being equally and rightfully the common property of every people, culture, nation- the source of life for all. The horizontal shift of Islam, rather than the multi-dimensional shift of Christianity is noteworthy. Christianity transcends Judaism but simultaneously validates it (keeping in regard Israel's Scriptures) and maintains the narrative of Salvation History. Islam interrupts it and imposes itself as an anachronism. It lacks the theological creativity of Christianity, rather than a profound expanded interpretation of Israel's life it offers us a revisionist religion, taking no qualms with re-writing things long after the fact (ie. Ishmael and Abraham, Crucifixion of Christ ect.)
It is attempting to accomplish something similar as Christianity, but I don't really believe it has the tools to do it. Even though it is the 'fastest growing religion', I am not really concerned that it will become the final one because it fails to surpass the great surprise of Christian Revelation. This is, of course, from the perspective of an already converted Christian.
That being said, please read my comments in light of Nostra Aetate. I don't advocate disrespect for Muslims or a falicious demonizing of the Muslim faith.
Last edited:
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
I think Islam is a beautiful religion. I respect it's adherents and admire the qualities such as good manners, peace and tolerance to which they aspire.
It is a religion about which I have much to learn but with time I hope to become less ignorant.
It is a religion about which I have much to learn but with time I hope to become less ignorant.
ayani
member
hey.
i am a non-denominational Christian, who has formerly been a practicing Muslim.
stephen is right, in that many aspects of Islam are aesthetically beautiful. the calligraphy, the prayers, the mosques, the language. and many aspects of Islamic religious devotion / culture are admirable, and neat.
yet the religious core of Islam, i have found, is pretty empty. Allah is a god to be approached through worshipful acts, which express one's dedication to Islam and love for Allah. but i found that no matter how much i did, how many times a day i prayed, how much i learned about Islam, no matter how modestly i dressed, or how often i read the Quran, that i was still thirsty for God... still trying so hard to understand Him, "get" Him, be close to Him. and it just wasn't happening.
the origin of Islam lies with the revelations given to Mohammad, which make up the text of the Quran. while i would not deny that it is possible something was indeed communicating invisibly with Mohammad, i do not believe this being was of God, nor sent by Him. the commands of the Quran directly contradict, in many places, the commands given by the Son of God in the Gospels. forgiveness can not equal retaliation. Sonship can not hold the stage with the Quran's portrait of Isa al-Masih (the Quranic name for the figure associated in Islam with Jesus). spiritually, religiously, socially, ethically, the differences are vast.
and i've found that, since becomming a Christian, that spiritual emptiness and searching is gone. Jesus, the Messiah, is the real thing. Mohammad may have been sincere, intelligent, a good leader and inspired in his mission, but he can not ultimately lead a thirsty soul to its Creator. the Quran may be a beautiful text, and an impressive one for billions of people, but it is not the Word of God.
and i have to say, have to say... that while Allah may have many beautiful attributes....he is not the same Being as the One Jesus calls Abba, Father. he did not create us, nor does he sustain this world, nor does he have any hand in the Abrahamic promise...
i am a non-denominational Christian, who has formerly been a practicing Muslim.
stephen is right, in that many aspects of Islam are aesthetically beautiful. the calligraphy, the prayers, the mosques, the language. and many aspects of Islamic religious devotion / culture are admirable, and neat.
yet the religious core of Islam, i have found, is pretty empty. Allah is a god to be approached through worshipful acts, which express one's dedication to Islam and love for Allah. but i found that no matter how much i did, how many times a day i prayed, how much i learned about Islam, no matter how modestly i dressed, or how often i read the Quran, that i was still thirsty for God... still trying so hard to understand Him, "get" Him, be close to Him. and it just wasn't happening.
the origin of Islam lies with the revelations given to Mohammad, which make up the text of the Quran. while i would not deny that it is possible something was indeed communicating invisibly with Mohammad, i do not believe this being was of God, nor sent by Him. the commands of the Quran directly contradict, in many places, the commands given by the Son of God in the Gospels. forgiveness can not equal retaliation. Sonship can not hold the stage with the Quran's portrait of Isa al-Masih (the Quranic name for the figure associated in Islam with Jesus). spiritually, religiously, socially, ethically, the differences are vast.
and i've found that, since becomming a Christian, that spiritual emptiness and searching is gone. Jesus, the Messiah, is the real thing. Mohammad may have been sincere, intelligent, a good leader and inspired in his mission, but he can not ultimately lead a thirsty soul to its Creator. the Quran may be a beautiful text, and an impressive one for billions of people, but it is not the Word of God.
and i have to say, have to say... that while Allah may have many beautiful attributes....he is not the same Being as the One Jesus calls Abba, Father. he did not create us, nor does he sustain this world, nor does he have any hand in the Abrahamic promise...
Last edited:
ukMethodist
Member
God's ways are many, and His alone to know.
I do not like to think about religions in terms of Hell and Heaven, things in the afterlife, I think about now. And Jesus is for now, not later.
They deny the crucifixion, which brings them back to a system of laws and rules (scales), but the result is okay. They have a different relationship with God, If it works for them that's great. I have known Muslims and had good relationships with them, some I know have embraced Jesus as LORD during my time in University with the CU. It comes down to choice really. How would you like to life your life with the Yah?
I will never stop to testify of Jesus Christ, because it's just awesome. Of course I will only do so to Muslims and others when asked, I do not wish to offend them.
I do not like to think about religions in terms of Hell and Heaven, things in the afterlife, I think about now. And Jesus is for now, not later.
They deny the crucifixion, which brings them back to a system of laws and rules (scales), but the result is okay. They have a different relationship with God, If it works for them that's great. I have known Muslims and had good relationships with them, some I know have embraced Jesus as LORD during my time in University with the CU. It comes down to choice really. How would you like to life your life with the Yah?
I will never stop to testify of Jesus Christ, because it's just awesome. Of course I will only do so to Muslims and others when asked, I do not wish to offend them.
ukMethodist
Member
Ayani, thank you for sharing this with us.
God bless you!
God bless you!
CaptainBritain
Active Member
Branches of the same tree all serving the same God and against the same evil, all else is window dressing.
And imho the saved will be from many faiths and from all over,
And imho the saved will be from many faiths and from all over,
SpiritualBeing
Active Member
Haha, can I say that this post is very interesting.
I believe that every single religion in this world can and will be tolerated. Muhamaddism is no different. If a Muslim man were to come to my door and ask for help, I would give him all the help I could regardless of his religion. And this comment that Judaism is a 'dead' religion, what utter rubbish my friend.
From what bag do you draw that conclusion from? In saying that other religions are 'dead' then you are saying the same of Christianity. Was Jesus himself not a Jew? Did he not state that he himself was King of the Jews? remember, Christianity was not srated up by Jesus, it was his disciples after his death and resurrection that formed the basis of Christianity.
As a matter of fact, from the Bible, some people may draw the conclusion that Judaism is the'living' religion, and not Christianity, as hesus spoke of the Jews often.
You need to think about your answers carefully, or people will take offense.
:candle:
I believe that every single religion in this world can and will be tolerated. Muhamaddism is no different. If a Muslim man were to come to my door and ask for help, I would give him all the help I could regardless of his religion. And this comment that Judaism is a 'dead' religion, what utter rubbish my friend.
From what bag do you draw that conclusion from? In saying that other religions are 'dead' then you are saying the same of Christianity. Was Jesus himself not a Jew? Did he not state that he himself was King of the Jews? remember, Christianity was not srated up by Jesus, it was his disciples after his death and resurrection that formed the basis of Christianity.
As a matter of fact, from the Bible, some people may draw the conclusion that Judaism is the'living' religion, and not Christianity, as hesus spoke of the Jews often.
You need to think about your answers carefully, or people will take offense.
:candle:
I'm a Christian (bordering Catholic/Orthodox/High Anglican/Uniting).
I don't believe that I've read enough about Islam to have too much of an opinion. I do believe that the Islamic world is a very different world to mine (Eastern European family in Australia), I don't imagine that I would be able to communicate very clearly with a Moslem. Though, I can't think of any reason why their cultural expressions and religious traditions are any less or more valid than my own. I wouldn't trade them, no, but I can't imagine trading my entire life up to this point.
I have yet to read the Quran or very many Middle Eastern Judeo-Christian texts, or history books from the 5th-8th centuries, so I don't know much about the content or background to Islam. This is something that I would very much like to discover over the next Christmas, perhaps. I've got quite a lot of study to get done before that though.
Allan
I don't believe that I've read enough about Islam to have too much of an opinion. I do believe that the Islamic world is a very different world to mine (Eastern European family in Australia), I don't imagine that I would be able to communicate very clearly with a Moslem. Though, I can't think of any reason why their cultural expressions and religious traditions are any less or more valid than my own. I wouldn't trade them, no, but I can't imagine trading my entire life up to this point.
I have yet to read the Quran or very many Middle Eastern Judeo-Christian texts, or history books from the 5th-8th centuries, so I don't know much about the content or background to Islam. This is something that I would very much like to discover over the next Christmas, perhaps. I've got quite a lot of study to get done before that though.
Allan
Back about the end of "04, I read an interesting book. The title was "Islam and Terrorism" by Mark Gabriel. In the book, the author said he was a professor at an islamic university in Egypt. He said he left Islam, and eventually became a christian. He said some people tried to kill him after his conversion. Later, He left Egypt. He paints a very unpleasant picture of Islam.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I am LDS and what I thing about "Muhammadism" is that there is no such thing.
I kind of feel the same about JosephSmithism.
Last edited:
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Most people who leave one faith for another have some pretty negative biases of the religion they left. I don't pay a great deal of attention to them.
uu_sage
Active Member
Islam is our sister tradition in the larger Abrahamic family. I have worshiped and prayed in Mosques, taken an entire undergraduate course in Islam and have several Muslim friends. At home I have a couple of copies of the Qur'an and am beginning to read it. The prayers, the worship, and the art are incredibly beautiful and moving. My approach to being Christian affirms the strict unity of God and Jesus as a prophet. I believe it is one of many paths to God.
ayani
member
at the same time, sometimes these narratives from former believers can be useful, and report realities, or reflect truths within that community.
GabrielWithoutWings
Well-Known Member
If one really wanted to get nit-picky, it could be argued that Islam is light neo-Arianism... which, of course, is a Christian heresy.