and is that not the interesting question you have brought up .. which is what is it that God Commands us to do ? .. and the Commands of Which God do we follow ? For example .. do we follow the commands of the God of Abraham -- El Oliun .. the Commands of Lord YHWH .. The Commands of Lord Jealous .. or the commants of the God of Jesus .. El Oliun ?
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Christians: What does Jesus mean by worshipping God "in spirit and in truth"?
- Thread starter Niatero
- Start date
and is that not the interesting question you have brought up .. which is what is it that God Commands us to do ? .. and the Commands of Which God do we follow ? For example .. do we follow the commands of the God of Abraham -- El Oliun .. the Commands of Lord YHWH .. The Commands of Lord Jealous .. or the commants of the God of Jesus .. El Oliun ?
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Truth in Christianity is Jesus personally because he is the only mediator between God and humanity.
CorrectiveLens
Member
The Samaritan woman asked Jesus whether one should worship at Jacob's well or the temple in Jerusalem. Jesus replied that the hour cometh when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth.
In the Old Testament, only the high priest was allowed to enter the Holy of Holies where he communicated with God to receive and then relay God's message to the people. When Christ died on the cross, the Bible says that the veil (which was at the entrance to the Holy of Holies) was rent (torn). What this means is that we can now communicate with the Father directly through the Holy Spirit which acts as a portal through which both the Father and Son can communicate truth, receive worship, and empower those that they indwell to fulfill their will.
Tinkerpeach
Active Member
God doesn’t contradict Himself so all of them.
If you think you notice a contradiction it just means you are interpreting something wrong.
That is a completely ridiculous statement .. but it matters not .. as there is no contradiction if there is more than one God speaking.
For example --- the question is to you .. what is it that God commands us to do, in the case of Sinful Parents ?
Do we 1) Kill the children for the sins of the parents
or 2 ) Do not kill the children for the sisns of the parents .. each is to be punished according to his own sin.
Answer please .. which is the Command of your God .. and give the name of that God who's command you are following.
Charles Philips
Banned
Jesus was announcing that a new covenant was about to take the place of the old covenant. The Bible has the old and new testament, these two also represent the old and new covenants.
To put it in simple terms, thew old covenant refers to the time before Jesus came into the world, and the new covenant refers to the time after He came into the world.
Before Jesus came, (old covenant) people sacrificed animals by burning them at the altar of Temple of God. This was to atone for the sins of those who offered up the animals as a sacrifice. This system continued for thousands of years, until the Lord Jesus Christ came into the world and sacrificed Himself as a once and for all sacrifice to atone for the sins of all those who believe in Him.
So under the old covenant people worshiped God in the Temple where they offered up the animals to be burnt, but Jesus came and put an end to that system of worship and sacrifice. He proclaimed that He was now the Temple of God and those who believe in Him are to worship Him in Spirit rather than a man made building (Temple).
So when Jesus proclaimed that the hour is coming when the old way of connecting with God, through animal scarifies and worship in the Temple are at an end and the new way to connect directly with God through Him had arrived for those who believe in Him. All people from every part of the world can now worship God directly through Him, so there is no longer a need to burn animals or worship God in the Temple.
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PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
According to Christianity: follow Jesus.
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
which is what is it that God Commands us to do ? .. and the Commands of Which God do we follow ? For example .. do we follow the commands of the God of Abraham -- El Oliun .. the Commands of Lord YHWH .. The Commands of Lord Jealous .. or the commants of the God of Jesus .. El Oliun ?
One would think that Christianity would follow the commands of the God of Jesus and follow Jesus - but this is often not the case -- They will follow the Command's of the God YHWH .. the Commands of Lord Jealous .. or Ha Satan - the hands of men.. such as "The word" of Paul via Lord Martin .. or or Emperor Constantine...
The Jewish Bible says there were some who saw God .. says explicitly that Moses saw God face to face. Jacob is also said to have seen God face to face.. “Because I have seen God face to face…yet my life has been spared” (Genesis 32:31).
One would think that Christianity would follow the commands of the God of Jesus and follow Jesus - but this is often not the case -- They will follow the Command's of the God YHWH .. the Commands of Lord Jealous .. or Ha Satan - the hands of men.. such as "The word" of Paul via Lord Martin .. or or Emperor Constantine...
The Jewish Bible says there were some who saw God .. says explicitly that Moses saw God face to face. Jacob is also said to have seen God face to face.. “Because I have seen God face to face…yet my life has been spared” (Genesis 32:31).
Anthony H Miller
Member
Truth belongs to God; Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ, John 1:17. It is applied to individuals, situations and circumstances. There can be any number of false gods, but there can be only one true God. There can be any number of lies, but there can be only one truth.
All men are liars, Psalm 116:11, Romans 3:4.
1st John 2:3-4; And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, "I know him," and keep not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1st John 2:22; Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ. He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
The Holy spirit that dwells in a Christian is that spirit of truth; John 14:17. We receive that spirit at baptism; Acts 2:38. Anyone who makes a lie will not enter into that Holy City; Revelation 21:27.
The premise of this question regarding the worship of spirit and truth derives from scripture and concerns spiritual things. It is a serious question and deserves a serious response. I have endeavored to stay on point with scripture, and not drift off with some idea or belief that originates from a confused mind.
I hope this helps.
All men are liars, Psalm 116:11, Romans 3:4.
1st John 2:3-4; And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, "I know him," and keep not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1st John 2:22; Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ. He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
The Holy spirit that dwells in a Christian is that spirit of truth; John 14:17. We receive that spirit at baptism; Acts 2:38. Anyone who makes a lie will not enter into that Holy City; Revelation 21:27.
The premise of this question regarding the worship of spirit and truth derives from scripture and concerns spiritual things. It is a serious question and deserves a serious response. I have endeavored to stay on point with scripture, and not drift off with some idea or belief that originates from a confused mind.
I hope this helps.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Some "Christians" haven't really followed it some have. This is Christianity, though.
1 John 3:18
... let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
In the Jewish Bible some are said to saw God's manifestations in the world (see "theophany"). The unique ("monogenes") Son of God or "Logos" is the only one who is said to be with God before the creation of the world and the only one sent directly from God into the world. He knows God (the Father) differently (more intimately) ...
John 3
31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.
32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.
33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true.
34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.
35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.
John 7
28...He who sent me is true, and him you do not know.
29 I know him, for I come from him, and he sent me.
John 17
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
6 "I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you.
8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.
24 ... you loved me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me.
26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.
In spirit, spirit to spirit and not a geographical location. In truth, completely honesty, in word and in deed.
"This melding of spirit and truth in worship is summed up well by Jonathan Edwards, the 18th-century American pastor and theologian. He said, “I should think myself in the way of my duty to raise the affections [emotions] of my hearers as high as possibly I can, provided that they are affected with nothing but truth.” Edwards recognized that truth and only truth can properly influence the emotions in a way that brings honor to God. The truth of God, being of infinite value, is worthy of infinite passion.” quote
IMV
It would be difficult to disagree more strongly .. than what you put forth as being a follower of Christ .. IMEO - While there could be worse representation than John .. of the message . "The word" - namely anything Pauline .. of which John is a Pauline Hellenistic Fusion work .. a much later revision to the original story.
If I was to put forth a small amount of scripture .. I would put the most famous sermon ... one of the main theme's being how to squeeze through the pearly gates Matt 5-7 .. if you wanted the really short version "while standing on one foot summary of the Torah" popularized by Greatest of Rabbi's on whose knee Jesus learned Rabbi Hillel --- in answer to question say " Don't do to others what you hate - the rest is all commentary - now go and learn" see Matt 7:12 for Rabbi Jesus spin on the Hill.
thats it .. understand that one passage .. in context .. and in depth .. not the Holy Grail .. Not some deep dark secret .. one simple verse .. the man the myth the Legend say is all you need .. now follow .. Yes You .. .. Go .. how you gonna follow dat ?
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
The question of the OP was:
What does Jesus mean by worshipping God "in spirit and in truth"?
The answer was that this kind of worship means living by God's commandments. And it means following him in heart not just appearance.
Then you asked:
which is what is it that God Commands us to do ? .. and the Commands of Which God do we follow ?
I said that according to Christianity follow Jesus. His command is "love one another."
Expanding on Jesus relation to God was just explanation/commentary why follow Jesus as the definite representative of God (according to Johannine theology). I agree it's not the same theology as in synoptic gospels.
All that Christology aside, in all NT Bible the main life motto is love one another. Agree?
"first Bold" upon which I said .. most Christians don't follow Jesus .. down that tangeant .. then you ended up with a summary based on John.
I missed picking that out and giving partial credit in any case .. The Golden Rule is expressed in both positive and negative forms .. Pos - things to do, Neg - things not to do. While love one another is a specific example of the Rule .. it does not quite cover as much ground as "Do unto others" and the statement in Matt 7:12 "This sums up the law and the prophets" is required for further clarification .. instructing the reader to think about the rule broadly .. "Spare the Rod Spoil the Child" is a form of Love is it not .... such that the exclamation "Love one Another" can be relegated to a platitude of sorts .. a non specific generalization
But YES .. main life motto -- Do unto others -- love one another. In the Sermon on the Mount is given more examples .. Judge not - lest you be judged .. the famous "Let ye without sin cast the first rock" .. not in the SOM but an another example of the Golden Rule.
What is also important about the general rule "Do unto others" .. is that this credo .. was not invented by Christ .. so while the God spoke through the Logos .. he also spoke through Hamurrabi .. and an Earlier Sumerian Law Code .. The OT has this rule .. Buddha, Zoroaster have this rule as does Confucius. God speaking through the ages .. hell even Islam has this rule "no compulsion in Islam" .. and of course - like the Christians .. they don't follow this rule either ... nor worship this rule as is required ..
and we must understand that it is the Rule that we are worshiping .. not God directly .. you worship God by Worshiping the Golden Rule .. in all its applications.