sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Post #209 was all the answer the question warranted.
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Christians: What in this Book do you Disagree With?
- Thread starter DeepShadow
- Start date
nutshell
Well-Known Member
No. It warranted more.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
I agree with you to a point. It is important to have the desire to be good. But if we aren't doing anything to BE good our desire is irrelevent. But true a desire will lead a person to do good things. But what good things must we do? Christ told us the good things we need to do (aka. the commandments). If actions aren't important then why would Christ waste all of his ministry teaching us the things we need to do to follow him?
It sounds like the opposing argument is saying we don't need to follow the commandment but mearly need to believe in Christ. This doesn't make sense, which is why I asked my question. It doesn't make sense that a person who doesn't follow the commandment but believes should be given the same reward as a person who believe AND follows the commandments. The opposing argument is saying that I'm wasting my life by obeying the commandments. I could have many more experiences in life than I am currently having if I wasn't obeying the commandments. I should I obey the commandments if I end up wiuth the same reward as somebody who doesn't?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You're obsessing.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Human desire and will is an extremely powerful thing. I submit that, if one truly desires to do something, one will find a way to do it. If one truly desires to love God and love neighbor (which encapsulates the whole Law), one will find a way to do it.
tomspug
Absorbant
I think you misunderstood my question. Obviously, I disagree with that aspect of Mormon doctrine. I am referring specifically to divine revelation that is applicable to NOW. One of the reasons I love the Bible so much is because it is literally 'alive', that I can open the book and find truths in it that are immediately applicable to my life.
So, my question is, aside from regurgitation of truths in Scripture, what doctrines in the Book of Mormon or other books has had this sort of impact on your life?
nutshell
Well-Known Member
I was thinking the same about you.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
This isn't about the Book of Mormon but about modern prophets. Where in the bible does it tell us what to do about pornography, homosexuality, the internet, broken families, bad music, bad movies, meth, marjuana, etc. I could list manyother problems that are specific to our times. If anything the bible offers only vague debatable answers. With modern revelation we can know exactly what God wants us to do about these problems. We don't have to debate what the bible means.
nutshell
Well-Known Member
Of course. Many LDS members read the Mormon texts every day and find the answers to personal struggles. The first advice a person will receive if they tell someone they are struggling with something is to pray and read the scriptures.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I'd say my very three favorites are:
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Matthew 25:35-40 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mosiah 4:16-22 And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish. Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just -- But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God. For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind? And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy. And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another. And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.
tomspug
Absorbant
Ecclesiastes is my favorite book of the Bible! I'm glad you like it too.
As far as the Mosiah quote, I like it a lot. I think there's a lot of truth in that passage, but I'm pretty sure I've heard it before in the Bible. I was kind of hoping for something that wasn't already in the Bible.
As far as the Mosiah quote, I like it a lot. I think there's a lot of truth in that passage, but I'm pretty sure I've heard it before in the Bible. I was kind of hoping for something that wasn't already in the Bible.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
So are you looking for entirely new doctrines that are taught in the Book of Mormon? I'm pretty sure you won't find anything in the Bible that matches or nearly matches what I posted from Mosiah, but love and service of our fellow men definitely isn't a doctrine that's unique to the Book of Mormon. I guess I'm unclear as to what kinds of scriptures you had in mind.
tomspug
Absorbant
Hmm... Yeah, I guess what I'm looking for is something profound, something unique to the Book of Mormon that, as a Christian with only the Bible, would be worth remembering. I think that such passages would greatly increase the value of the Book of Mormon to other Christians.
My general perception of what I have read thus far has been a mix of Biblical truths (as in, established in the Bible already) and doctrine that I feel is contrary to my faith. I would be much more encouraged to read the Book of Mormon further if there was more to it than that.
My general perception of what I have read thus far has been a mix of Biblical truths (as in, established in the Bible already) and doctrine that I feel is contrary to my faith. I would be much more encouraged to read the Book of Mormon further if there was more to it than that.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Perhaps we're at an impasse here. You want something "profound" and "unique" but if it's not already spelled out in the Bible, it's "contrary to [your] faith." That doesn't leave us with many options. Do you see what I'm saying?
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Yes everytime I read the Book of Mormon something else will stand out that I hadn't noticed before. This goes the same for the Bible and other scriptures.
tomspug
Absorbant
No, I don't understand at all. Perhaps you simply don't understand what I love about the Bible so much. The Bible isn't just 'alive' because it's filled with truth. It's 'alive' because it speaks directly to the soul. For example, I went to church this Sunday and the pastor was talking about the birth of Samuel, a story I've known since I was a kid. Now after all these years, the passage has suddenly come alive into something new and relevant to me, twenty years in the future.
Before, the birth of Samuel was simply a testimony of God's faithfulness to those who pray to him. It's also an excellent example of temperance in the face of great strife. Not only that, the story itself provides an incredibly profound metaphor for the conflict between grace and pride, and the righteous conclusion of throwing oneself with reckless abandon in worship in order to overcome it.
This is what amazes me, that what was once simply one chapter in 1 Samuel will have this new meaning for the rest of my life and will no doubt transform the entire book into something that it wasn't before. And I'm only one person, I'm certain the more people I encounter, the more this simple passage will become more and more an encouragement to my faith.
When it comes to the Bible, I never feel like I've emptied any passage of its truth, that I've gotten all I can from it, not because I don't THINK I should but because I am constantly surprised by it. I'm sorry to say this, but I cannot say this about the Book of Mormon (thus far), which is why I prompted this question.
To me, the Book of Mormon is one-dimensional, gives the impression of being man-made, and is just plain boring. Obviously, I'm biased, but I have gotten the same impression for a lot of non-LDS people. If you feel that I am wrong, then please share your personal experiences studying the Book of Mormon. That was all I was asking for, and I think it's an easily answered question.
Before, the birth of Samuel was simply a testimony of God's faithfulness to those who pray to him. It's also an excellent example of temperance in the face of great strife. Not only that, the story itself provides an incredibly profound metaphor for the conflict between grace and pride, and the righteous conclusion of throwing oneself with reckless abandon in worship in order to overcome it.
This is what amazes me, that what was once simply one chapter in 1 Samuel will have this new meaning for the rest of my life and will no doubt transform the entire book into something that it wasn't before. And I'm only one person, I'm certain the more people I encounter, the more this simple passage will become more and more an encouragement to my faith.
When it comes to the Bible, I never feel like I've emptied any passage of its truth, that I've gotten all I can from it, not because I don't THINK I should but because I am constantly surprised by it. I'm sorry to say this, but I cannot say this about the Book of Mormon (thus far), which is why I prompted this question.
To me, the Book of Mormon is one-dimensional, gives the impression of being man-made, and is just plain boring. Obviously, I'm biased, but I have gotten the same impression for a lot of non-LDS people. If you feel that I am wrong, then please share your personal experiences studying the Book of Mormon. That was all I was asking for, and I think it's an easily answered question.