Christians: Why is belief more important than morality?

[groovydancer88]

I'm a Christian - but I have a new question about my faith every day. This is one I have had for quite a while. Some people have asked, if you don't believe in God, what is your motivation for living a moral life? Well, even if you DO, what's your motivation? Christianity is based on the idea that God forgives all as long as you accept Jesus as your savior, right? Surely God frowns upon sin, but he doesn't eternally condemn you for it - but he will eternally condemn you if you don't believe in him or his son. Why is this so? Why should belief be more important than morality? I don't get how my atheist dad who is one of the kindest people I know will be sent to hell, but murderers who believe in Jesus won't. What am I missing here?

 

[Master Vigil]

This is easy, because without the guilt trip, christianity has no validity for being followed. If morality was more important that believing in god, christianity would probably get kicked off the list of "major world religions."

 

[linwood]

Editted due to stupidty.

 

[robtex]

GD88 now your thinking. Plot it out on paper....with your keyboard or something.....I am staying outta this one cause it's under same faith debates but good job.....build a paradign look at it consistancy and assess its validity. Great start..frubars for you.....

 

[Mr Spinkles]

*MOD POST*

Remember folks, this is in the Same Faith Debates Forum. Only Christians should be debating the ideas presented in the OP.

 

[Scuba Pete]

This is easy, because without the guilt trip, christianity has no validity for being followed.

This is amazingly myopic and condescending. I have grown to expect better from you.

GD88, the world would have you believe that Grace is cheap. That murderers are headed to heaven and pious non-believers are headed to hell. It's their way of twisting reality to confuse the real issues. Look at this scripture and see if you can't start making some heads and tails of it all.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

I'm a Christian - but I have a new question about my faith every day. This is one I have had for quite a while. Some people have asked, if you don't believe in God, what is your motivation for living a moral life? Well, even if you DO, what's your motivation? Christianity is based on the idea that God forgives all as long as you accept Jesus as your savior, right? Surely God frowns upon sin, but he doesn't eternally condemn you for it - but he will eternally condemn you if you don't believe in him or his son. Why is this so? Why should belief be more important than morality? I don't get how my atheist dad who is one of the kindest people I know will be sent to hell, but murderers who believe in Jesus won't. What am I missing here?

Good question. First off, I am not one for comparing one person's sinfulness to another person's sinfulness. If somebody commits a murder, you might be inclined to say that it is a greater sin than if I berate someone. However, we do not have the insight to see what temptations each of us had and what resources we each had to deal with those temptations. That other person could have been under extremely intense levels of stress and possess a huge measure of regret, and I could simply be a spoiled, egotistical brat berating someone for my own pleasure.

We can certainly judge which is the worse of two sins when considering a single individual, and we can make judgements against people and prosecute them according to our laws, but we get into trouble when we start making judgements about whether one person is better than another in God's eyes.

Having faith is something else entirely. That is an opportunity for salvation that we are all given. A rough analogy might be that all dogs are bad dogs once a while, but a person will not keep a dog that does not accept him as its owner. However, a dog that accepts the owner into its heart will still be kept, regardless of that dog's misbehavior.

 

[chris9178]

I'm a Christian - but I have a new question about my faith every day. This is one I have had for quite a while. Some people have asked, if you don't believe in God, what is your motivation for living a moral life? Well, even if you DO, what's your motivation? Christianity is based on the idea that God forgives all as long as you accept Jesus as your savior, right? Surely God frowns upon sin, but he doesn't eternally condemn you for it - but he will eternally condemn you if you don't believe in him or his son. Why is this so? Why should belief be more important than morality? I don't get how my atheist dad who is one of the kindest people I know will be sent to hell, but murderers who believe in Jesus won't. What am I missing here?

My best suggestion is to read C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, especially concentrating on books 3 and 4. This will give you a much better understanding. Basically, our Christianity isn't about what we do, it's about who we are because of our relationship with Christ.
It's easy to have questions like that, but it's much more responsible to go and search for the answers by reading the Bible, and the works of good theologians to help you understand better than it is to simply say:

This is easy, because without the guilt trip, christianity has no validity for being followed. If morality was more important that believing in god, christianity would probably get kicked off the list of "major world religions."

How much thought does a response like that take? Not much. And that way of thinking isn't going to elp you find answers either.

Seriously. Mere Christianity is an excellent place to start. It's probably at your local library.

 

[keevelish]

belief is technically more important than morality because of the utter depravity of mankind in God's eyes. No one can EVER get to heaven his own way, and by his own righteousness, because they are all "filthy rags" in God's eyes. You can never be "good enough" to go to heaven. Therefore, we MUST rely soley on God's mercy to get us there. He is forever merciful and "long suffering" he wishes that ALL will trust on Jesus as his personal saviour. Jesus died on the cross and ended that endless circle of being good enough. Even the old testament saints could not be righteous enough to go to heaven. Their works merely covered their iniquity and they could only go to paradise (Abraham's Bosom) when they died. When Jesus died on the cross, he made it possible to become righteous through trusting in Him and God's mercy.

 

[michel]

I'm a Christian - but I have a new question about my faith every ..... I don't get how my atheist dad who is one of the kindest people I know will be sent to hell, but murderers who believe in Jesus won't. What am I missing here?

Groovydancer,
I am so upset that anyone could be made to believe that his religion tells him that his dad will be sent to hell just because he is an atheist. I have come accross what I considered to be 'unyieldingly harsh' rules in certain Religions(And I am talking about 30-40 years ago), but I find it hard to believe that a Church would show an all forgiving God to be so harsh. I know that there are people on this forum (SOGFPP immediately comes to mind)who can help you understand what you have misinterpreted; I urge you to tackle this question since it must hurt. perhaps you could send him a P.M - I am sure he would be pleased and willing to help you.

 

[keevelish]

Michel, why don't you look at it in God's perspective? He is almighty, so what HE says GOES. It has nothing to do with whether we like it or not! God set a standard- we don't live up to it, he is infinite AND JUST and perfect. Less than perfection cannot have fellowship with perfection unless we can accept his mercy. God obviously sees it as just, because the atheist REJECTED God's gift. Simple. It may seem harsh, but it is just. Why can't people just accept Jesus instead of making pitiful excuses and then blaming God for their rejection?

 

[keevelish]

God is ONLY all-forgiving when a person accepts his free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ. Why should he forgive a person who rejects him? And it is exactly the fact that it DOES hurt that some people go to hell- but we DON'T blame God for it- we have compassion for other's souls and seek to show them how they too can trust Jesus as their saviour. That is why Jesus commanded us to go and tell people the gospel (Acts 1:8).

 

[chris9178]

I am so upset that anyone could be made to believe that his religion tells him that his dad will be sent to hell just because he is an atheist.

If you hold this standpoint then all you're doing is meausring God, aren't you? You try and decide which is good, which is bad, and which is even worst. What should we be judged for and what shouldn't we?

Well, for one thing, it's quite arrogant to say that God "should, or shouldn't". But that's based on opinion (afterall you may not even believe in God!).

More importantly, if you're trying to measure God, what do you use? Your feelings? Perceptions?
God has given us Scripture that gives us a small grasp of what God wants and does not want us to do. That scripture tells us, more or less, that atheists are going to be judged. If you have other scripture that tells us something different, then by all means, bring it forward.

Of course, if one is an atheist, then this has little meaning to him. But in this case, angellous is not.

 

[Master Vigil]

I feel bad that people are trying to say what god thinks. Please, you are infinite, your understanding can't even come close. None of us can. And a book written by finite imperfect men, even if inspired, can't come close.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

*MOD POST*

Once again, a friendly reminder that this is the Same Faith Debates forum. Please everyone remember that only Christians should be posting in this thread.

Thanks.

 

[true blood]

[QUOTE=groovydancer88]I'm a Christian - but I have a new question about my faith every day. This is one I have had for quite a while. Some people have asked, if you don't believe in God, what is your motivation for living a moral life? Well, even if you DO, what's your motivation? Christianity is based on the idea that God forgives all as long as you accept Jesus as your savior, right? Surely God frowns upon sin, but he doesn't eternally condemn you for it - but he will eternally condemn you if you don't believe in him or his son. Why is this so? Why should belief be more important than morality? I don't get how my atheist dad who is one of the kindest people I know will be sent to hell, but murderers who believe in Jesus won't. What am I missing here?[/QUOTE]

If you are a believer your Dad isn't going to hell. You know, there are passages that state those in Christ will be the ones to do the judging come Judgement Day. I think alot of people have sin-consciousness. Spiritual antaganism comes when a person does not realize what has been given to him by Jesus Christ. When a person becomes a Christian he is legally made righteous in Christ. What then is righteousness? It is God-given justification where a person can stand in the presence of God without any consciousness of sin, guild or shortfalls. It is something God imparts. Sounds to me like you lack teaching and still think you are unworthy to recieve all that is good from God like faith that your dad is going to be ok whatever religion, practices, acts, etc... he has done.

 

[Joannicius]

I'm a Christian - but I have a new question about my faith every day. This is one I have had for quite a while. Some people have asked, if you don't believe in God, what is your motivation for living a moral life? Well, even if you DO, what's your motivation? Christianity is based on the idea that God forgives all as long as you accept Jesus as your savior, right? Surely God frowns upon sin, but he doesn't eternally condemn you for it - but he will eternally condemn you if you don't believe in him or his son. Why is this so? Why should belief be more important than morality? I don't get how my atheist dad who is one of the kindest people I know will be sent to hell, but murderers who believe in Jesus won't. What am I missing here?

The Orthodox Christian 88 would never say your dad is going to hell for two reasons.

1. There is no hell (as defined by the Western Christianity) it is a condition, not a place. There is only the love of God that all will spend eternity in and with and the ones that love God will be in bliss and the ones who don't will be in a hell inside themselves tormented by their lack of love.

2. Only God will judge the final state of a person, we are forbidden to pass that judgement toward anyone.

MT 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.

LK 6:37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven

 

[Joannicius]

Like Chris said 88, C.S. Lewis "Mere Christianity" is a great place to start and if you can't get your hand on one, PM me and I will send it to you in MP3 format....free, it's great listening to.

 

[Joannicius]

Michel, why don't you look at it in God's perspective? He is almighty, so what HE says GOES. It has nothing to do with whether we like it or not! God set a standard- we don't live up to it, he is infinite AND JUST and perfect. Less than perfection cannot have fellowship with perfection unless we can accept his mercy. God obviously sees it as just, because the atheist REJECTED God's gift. Simple. It may seem harsh, but it is just. Why can't people just accept Jesus instead of making pitiful excuses and then blaming God for their rejection?

The Holy Spirit that Jesus gave us to love with, is being rejected by those Pharisaical spirits that say "look at me, I'm going to heaven and you are going to hell", bring to mind the ones Jesus castigated the most....the ones who said they had arrived and am in need of nothing........have you arrived keevelish?

We don't know we made it until our Creator says we have.
​

Will it be "thou good and faithful servant" or
"Depart from me, I never knew you"?
But Lord didn't I prophesy and do miriacles in your name???
​

 

[groovydancer88]

Thanks everyone for your insightful words - this is helping me understand. And I'm going to the library right now to get Mere Christianity, I'm sure that will help a lot too (I love books!!), thanks for the tip. Keep posting!