Are you serious they did not pastor a church. they were women who helped by serving in pauls ministry. For a good start how about giving me some scripture not names. If you haven't noticed your word is not infallible nor inerrant only God's Word. Again give me specific scripture that leads you to believe that they pastored a church. The problem is you can't but Ill be here for your next post.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christians: women speaking in church meetings
- Thread starter mywa
- Start date
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Oh? How do you know? It's pretty clear from the text that Phoebe was a deacon, which is a pastoral office.
I never claimed that my word is infallible. I never claimed that God's word isn't infallible. However, I do claim that the Bible isn't "God's word."
idea
Question Everything
(Topical Guide | PProphetess:Entry)
Prophetess
Ex. 15:20 Miriam the prophetess.
Judg. 4:4 Deborah, a prophetess.
2 Kgs. 22:14 (2 Chr. 34:22) Huldah the prophetess.
Isa. 8:3 I went unto the p., and she conceived, and bare a son
Luke 2:36 Anna, a prophetess.
(New Testament | Acts21:9)
9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did aprophesy.
Rebekah did not go to Isaac to get answers, she went straight to the Lord Himself, and He answered her, just as he answered her husband..
(Old Testament | Genesis25:22 - 23)
22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.
23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
women can be a prophet, can talk to God, just as men can.
(New Testament | Matthew 23:10 - 11)
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But the greatest among you shall be your servant.
it's not about who leads the church - men do NOT lead the church, neither do women - Jesus leads the church.
the greatest is those who serve, not those who pretend to lead.
Prophetess
Ex. 15:20 Miriam the prophetess.
Judg. 4:4 Deborah, a prophetess.
2 Kgs. 22:14 (2 Chr. 34:22) Huldah the prophetess.
Isa. 8:3 I went unto the p., and she conceived, and bare a son
Luke 2:36 Anna, a prophetess.
(New Testament | Acts21:9)
9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did aprophesy.
Rebekah did not go to Isaac to get answers, she went straight to the Lord Himself, and He answered her, just as he answered her husband..
(Old Testament | Genesis25:22 - 23)
22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.
23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
women can be a prophet, can talk to God, just as men can.
(New Testament | Matthew 23:10 - 11)
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But the greatest among you shall be your servant.
it's not about who leads the church - men do NOT lead the church, neither do women - Jesus leads the church.
the greatest is those who serve, not those who pretend to lead.
Last edited:
Are you people serious. This is so sad. So tell me exactly what God means when he writes in 1 timothy that a woman ought not teach a man. what does that mean. And a deacon is not a pastor. I thought I could come on this sight to read some sound doctrine but all I see is a bunch of new age thinking, I don't want to offend anybody post. Soon some of you will c that the next time when Christ returns He won't be the innocent lamb but we will behold the Lion of Judah who will judge the hearts of men.
idea
Question Everything
I don't believe that women hold the priesthood, or that they lead the church. the reason for this is not because women are inferior to men though - the reason is that there is a better position to be held.... it's better to be "with" others than "in front of" them - don't you agree? If you had the choice, would you rather be - in front of - or with? I prefer "with" which works well, because I am female.
Matthew19:30
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first....
the point is not to be first or last... the point is to be side by side, with...
Moses7:18
18 And the Lord called his people ZION, because they were of one heart and one mind,
all that stuff about women's place in the Bible? it's just one way of encouraging everyone to choose "with" rather than "in front of".
You can't take one verse and make a whole teaching of it. Besides that, Jesus never said women couldn't speak. In fact, Jesus told a woman to go and "tell them of me"(meaning other Samaritans in the area). Jesus taught a lot of women-Mary M., Mary, Simone, Martha, and more.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God didn't write a letter to Timothy. Paul did.
A deacon is a pastor. It is one of the Biblical pastoral offices of the Church. In fact, there is precedence in the early church that deacons were later consecrated as bishops. I know several deacons who pastor churches. Read your Bible, for heavens sake!
I wondered when the "God's gonna smite you" argument would be trotted out here. God loves us, and God approves of God's Church, and her deacons, whom God has called to be pastors (whose job it is to "proclaim the gospel").
Strength & Honor
Member
The Greek word diakonos, from which we derive the word deacon, also means servant, which can apply to any Christian. We cant necessary to conclude that she was a deacon based on this text alone.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
[Paul didn't write the pastorals]
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Since when do we base anything off of one text alone??
Diakonos is used in a specific circumstance, though, and it's clear that it is a distinct office within the general baptismal ministry of the laity.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That's right! My bad! [slaps hand with ruler]
But neither did God...
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
No problem.
[I say the following for the benefit of others]
But Paul not writing the pastorals has a significant impact on how we interpret them - namely, that the church was organized a bit differently in the location of the original audiences than it was during Paul's time.
There were conflicting traditions from the beginning of the church due to location and historical circumstance. In some areas, the churches were supported by wealthy women who were sympathetic to the activities of women in the church and the writers of Scripture, other early Christian writers, and the church fathers either approved or disapproved of these activities.
The church was always patriarchal, but the male-centeredness varied in severity. Some traditions honored the place of women (all the Gospels, Gospel of Thomas, Paul and Thecla) and some did not (the pastorals and most of the apostolic fathers).
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
I'm not so sure. Deacons are at the bottom of the totem pole in church leadership.
The apostolic fathers say over and over again: submit yourselves to the teachings of the deacons, presbyters, and episkopos. It is from "presbyter" that we get the term "preist" which is in Protestant tradition "pastor."
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
But it's still one of the historic pastoral offices. Even the episkopoi are considered to be pastors. That's why they carry the crozier. In fact, I'm not sure one could even argue that there is a "bottom of the totem pole" within the clergy. There are specific offices set aside within the whole baptismal ministry of the church for specific duties within that ministry. some are episkopoi, some fall within the presbyterate, and some are diakonoi. In fact, in Anglican tradition, the deacon is not subordinate to his presbyter, but works alongside him/her, at the discretion of the bishop.
kingsherald
Member
No, not true. Women are not permitted to teach or have authority over a man in the church. Therefore there should be no women in church office, such as elder or deacon, where they would have authority over men. Women are not permitted to teach or preach in the general assembly when men are present. This is the teaching of the Apostle Paul. His letter to Timothy is inspired of God, God breathed, and so it is binding on the church. To let women preach and teach and become pastors and elders and deacons is wanton disobedience to God and His Christ, and is shameful and grievous error.
This pertains to gatherings of the church, and not other institutions of men.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Actually, it pertains to the specific church to whom Paul was writing. "God-breathed" is a little misleading here, and grossly overemphasized. It is not at all indicated that this writing should be binding upon the Church at large.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
If women are not allowed to teach or have authority, why does Paul regulate them?
Paul and pseudo-Paul both regulate the leadership roles in worship of men and women, not just men.
1 corinthians 4:17 Strongly suggest paul taught the same thing in every church.
IMO< I think there are several reasons paul regulated the women, first woman was not made in the image of God she was made in the image of man from the rib of man, second, she fell into sin by way of the devil, man fell into sin from the woman,making her easer to be decieved by satan. Yes both men and women have rules.