Christ's sacrifice in vain?

[K.Venugopal]

It is the central tenet of Christianity that God sent his only begotten son amongst mankind as a ransom for man’s sins. This should have meant that sin in mankind, which entered mankind through the original sin of Adam in disobeying God (and eating the forbidden fruit), the wages for which was death, would have been cleansed by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. This should have resulted in everlasting life for mankind since then. However, it appears to me that the ransom of Christ was hijacked by the Church which said that mankind would be assured of everlasting life only if it believes in Jesus Christ. Has Christ’s sacrifice been in vain?

 

[Mister Emu]

However, it appears to me that the ransom of Christ was hijacked by the Church which said that mankind would be assured of everlasting life only if it believes in Jesus Christ.

The Bible says this as well...

 

[mingmty]

We were all doomed before Christ came to the world; he gave us the chance to be saved if we live according to his father and himself.

Note that I am not Christian, but know their beliefs; basically he gave us a chance to be forgiven. (By the way, it sounds like nonsense to me).

 

[K.Venugopal]

The Bible says this as well...

You mean a price was set on Christ's sacrifice?

 

[rocketman]

You mean a price was set on Christ's sacrifice?

It's a case of believing and accepting. God does not want to force anybody to be saved against their wishes. But you can't accept it if you don't first believe it. The price is free.

 

[K.Venugopal]

It's a case of believing and accepting. God does not want to force anybody to be saved against their wishes. But you can't accept it if you don't first believe it. The price is free.

I think I've not got across what I've meant. I mean, Christ was sent by God as a sacrifice and he would have sacrificed himself unconditionally. Then who set the condition of believing in order that man may enjoy life everlasting?

 

[rocketman]

I think I've not got across what I've meant. I mean, Christ was sent by God as a sacrifice and he would have sacrificed himself unconditionally. Then who set the condition of believing in order that man may enjoy life everlasting?

If I hold out 100 dollars for you to take as a free gift, are you going to bother if you don't believe it's real?

 

[K.Venugopal]

If I hold out 100 dollars for you to take as a free gift, are you going to bother if you don't believe it's real?

My question is, was Christ's sacrifice conditional? And if conditional, would a sacrifice be a sacrifice at all?

 

[rocketman]

My question is, was Christ's sacrifice conditional? And if conditional, would a sacrifice be a sacrifice at all?

Good question. Jesus himself said that belief in him was necessary in John 3:16,

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

But he also said that he came to die in our place in Mark 10:45 "...and to give his life as a ransom for many"

The question is, why is belief required, and is it a condition? Firstly it's required for the reasons I mentioned earlier, that is, you can't accept something if you don't believe it's real and what it is claimed to be. Secondly, it's very important to understand the system of contracts (covenants) between God and man. Jesus death realeased us from the Old covenant and allowed us to come under the New Covenant (Matt 26:28). Now then, to be released from the old agreement you have to leave it behind and accept the new, but you can't do that if you still believe you are under the old (the "Law" as it was called). The good news is hard to believe because it is so generous, and naturally we feel that we don't deserve it. But the new agreement (eternal salvation) does not apply if you don't accept it. Belief/acceptance are pretty much the same thing here.

To sum up, there are no conditions, but there is an OPTION. The option is that we take the unconditional sacrifice as our own (in our place), or leave it. Salvation depends on God, not us, but God depends on us to agree to it.

If he allows us to be saved without accepting it willingly we cannot recieve the Holy Spirit and be transformed from within (to be completed in the next life). We would live forever but in a state subject to suffereing. Jesus said that we must be born again of the Spirit. We must become a new creation.

There are no conditions, but it is a personal choice.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Venu,
The price was 30 gold coins for which Jesus was betrayed.
However, nothing goes in vain. There are a few who have achived salvation by following the path, Jesus showed. More are achieving to certain degrees by following small bits and pieces of his teachings and slowly and surely after many lives they will reach HOME.
The path is not important.
Reaching HOME IS.
Love & rgds

 

[astarath]

Friend Venu,
The price was 30 gold coins for which Jesus was betrayed.
However, nothing goes in vain. There are a few who have achived salvation by following the path, Jesus showed. More are achieving to certain degrees by following small bits and pieces of his teachings and slowly and surely after many lives they will reach HOME.
The path is not important.
Reaching HOME IS.
Love & rgds

Interesting a christian with a reincarnation twist!

 

[emiliano]

You mean a price was set on Christ's sacrifice?

No, but a price was clearly set on sin, the price of sin is death.
Let the dead bury the dead - Jesus
Those that the disciple wanted to attend the burial of were spiritually dead and they could attend to the burial of the physically dead, this disciple should follow the master and give life eternal to others by preaching the good news.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Jesus himself said that belief in him was necessary in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

1 John 3:8, "He that doeth sin, is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. In this thing the Son of God appeared, that he undo the works of the devil."

The son of God, it appears, did not undo the works of the devil. He left it to us, the sinners, to do so by believing in him, Christ. Has any believer of Christ survived beyond the span allotted to sinners? It appears the only person who somewhat believed in Christ was Christ himself, because he shrugged off death and lived, not eternally, but for 40 days.

 

[maremf]

If Jesus is talking about life after death here, then yes it is only possible through Him. I think that the works that Christ undid was eternal death.
If there is a terminal disease and I find a cure in the form of a pill, then I would give the medicine away free (hopefully) but you would still have to take the medicine.
The devil is still here so there is still sin in the world.

 

[emiliano]

I think that what believing in Jesus determines is where the eternal life will take place. In God’s kingdom, our felicity or in the lake of fire.
and shall come forth, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil to the resurrection of condemnation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If I hold out 100 dollars for you to take as a free gift, are you going to bother if you don't believe it's real?

No, but if you cram it into my pocket, I'll still have it.

If Jesus is talking about life after death here, then yes it is only possible through Him. I think that the works that Christ undid was eternal death.
If there is a terminal disease and I find a cure in the form of a pill, then I would give the medicine away free (hopefully) but you would still have to take the medicine.

You can force-feed people medication (though it might be easier to stick a needle in them with the medicine).

As an alternate analogy to all this, what would you think of me if I went into a burning house, found a family in the living room, some of whom had passed out from the smoke (but were still alive), the rest of whom had become confused and disoriented from the fumes, and then just left them there to die rather than drag them out... because none of them asked me to help them?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It is the central tenet of Christianity that God sent his only begotten son amongst mankind as a ransom for man’s sins. This should have meant that sin in mankind, which entered mankind through the original sin of Adam in disobeying God (and eating the forbidden fruit), the wages for which was death, would have been cleansed by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. This should have resulted in everlasting life for mankind since then. However, it appears to me that the ransom of Christ was hijacked by the Church which said that mankind would be assured of everlasting life only if it believes in Jesus Christ. Has Christ’s sacrifice been in vain?

Presenting only a portion of Scripture to make a point is disingenuous.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Presenting only a portion of Scripture to make a point is disingenuous.

I quoted to make my point. You can accuse me of being ill-motivated only if I misquote the Bible.

 

[K.Venugopal]

If Jesus is talking about life after death here, then yes it is only possible through Him. I think that the works that Christ undid was eternal death.

Eternal life would be for those who go to heaven. And those who go to hell would suffer eternally. Is the latter position eternal death? Between the two all humans would be accounted for. Is the good news that Jesus has done away with hell?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I quoted to make my point. You can accuse me of being ill-motivated only if I misquote the Bible.

I can accuse you, and I am, of being ill-motivated when you take only one part of Scripture and exclude pertinent information from other verses to make a perverted point.