• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Chronologically and geographically isolated revelation = god is unjust and unfair.

Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Meow Mix said:
*would secretly enjoy this*
Click to expand...

The discussion itself would probably be interesting, but imagine the process of reading it in the text of Two Towers itself. ;)

Trust me, if you like these kinds of things, then you'd probably like both Indian Epics. I, personally, prefer the story of the Ramayana over the Mahabharata.
 
jmvizanko

jmvizanko

Uber Tool
Riverwolf said:
After all, especially if a Scripture claims to be the One Truth for all mankind, it had better be clear and concise; otherwise, calling it "too cryptic" is a legitimate criticism.
Click to expand...

All the more reason to think the predominant scriptures are nothing but hogwash, as they are anything but clear and concise. Why would god be such a terrible communicator, let alone ridiculously repetitive and boring?
 
croak

croak

Trickster
jmvizanko said:
All the more reason to think the predominant scriptures are nothing but hogwash, as they are anything but clear and concise. Why would god be such a terrible communicator, let alone ridiculously repetitive and boring?
Click to expand...
Well, it depends. You're looking at it from a literary perspective. From an oral perspective, repetition makes sense.

Qur’ān Recitation: A Tradition of Oral Performance and Transmission said:
Whether or not one accepts the Muslim claim that the Qur’ān was revealed to Muḥammad by supernatural means, and not consciously composed by him, both believer and outside investigator will agree that the Qur’ānic text exhibits many distinctively oral and oral-formulaic traits, such as redundancy, frequent repetition of standard patterns and refrains in a variety of content contexts, oaths, rhyme, assonance, parables, exhortations, and other elements.
Click to expand...

Qur’ān Recitation: A Tradition of Oral Performance and Transmission [PDF]
 
Y

yodh

Member
Why not God presented his miracles to us? Simple, it s just because we already believing his existence. Though, we didn't see it personally but God allowed matters be declared earthwide, wasn't it? This is the evidence of his love toward us. Do you also possess a Bible, Jehovah God wrote that for all who love him and you are one of them. If we truly believe and love God, this is an open opportunity to show it. Cheer up! God is loving us.
 
ninerbuff

ninerbuff

godless wonder
yodh said:
Why not God presented his miracles to us? Simple, it s just because we already believing his existence. Though, we didn't see it personally but God allowed matters be declared earthwide, wasn't it? This is the evidence of his love toward us. Do you also possess a Bible, Jehovah God wrote that for all who love him and you are one of them. If we truly believe and love God, this is an open opportunity to show it. Cheer up! God is loving us.
Click to expand...
How about the miracle of getting starving children some food where they need it? Can't be that difficult for such a powerful being. :facepalm:
 
Riverwolf

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
jmvizanko said:
All the more reason to think the predominant scriptures are nothing but hogwash, as they are anything but clear and concise. Why would god be such a terrible communicator, let alone ridiculously repetitive and boring?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go that far. I rather like many of them. There's some wonderful wisdom contained in predominant Scriptures that I rather enjoy reading.

But I'd never claim that they're perfect.

I certainly don't call something hogwash simply because it's not clear. But I would expect a literal word of God to be such.
 
B

bowingtoGod

Member
ninerbuff said:
How about the miracle of getting starving children some food where they need it? Can't be that difficult for such a powerful being. :facepalm:
Click to expand...

I remember reading once a fictional conversation between someone and God.
It went something like this.
Man- God, why don't you help the hungry?
God- I was about to ask you the same question.
 
ninerbuff

ninerbuff

godless wonder
bowingtoGod said:
I remember reading once a fictional conversation between someone and God.
It went something like this.
Man- God, why don't you help the hungry?
God- I was about to ask you the same question.
Click to expand...
So god waits on sinful people to feed innocent sufferers (sufferers who may believe in god and pray for help) and let them starve to death rather than take the merciful route and provide them with food?
Yeah that makes total sense.
 
B

bowingtoGod

Member
ninerbuff said:
So god waits on sinful people to feed innocent sufferers (sufferers who may believe in god and pray for help) and let them starve to death rather than take the merciful route and provide them with food?
Yeah that makes total sense.
Click to expand...

It does if the people who suffer get eternal paradise.
 
B

bowingtoGod

Member
and God (according to the religions I know of) does care about them. He wants us (those with money and means to help) to help them. If we do not then we will have to face justice.
 
B

bowingtoGod

Member
JustWondering said:
true



Watching people suffer and die when you have the power to stop their suffering or death isn't necessarily evil. More like indifference.



Can you explain this one?
Click to expand...

Hello and salaam :)
I guess it depends on what your definition of "evil" is and what you believe about good or evil existing at all.

Everything that is bad, good can come out of it. Like... lets take for example Aids. Aids is awful and we would be better off without it, or would we? I am not so sure. It has put gays in the spotlight and at first it resulted in discrimination, but because of this (gays being in the spotlight) it has led to a revolution where gays are getting equality and peace in many parts of the world. The person who suffered with Aids can grow more compassionate and loving because of it. He knows suffering, and can relate to people.
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
bowingtoGod said:
Hello and salaam :)
I guess it depends on what your definition of "evil" is and what you believe about good or evil existing at all.

Everything that is bad, good can come out of it. Like... lets take for example Aids. Aids is awful and we would be better off without it, or would we? I am not so sure. It has put gays in the spotlight and at first it resulted in discrimination, but because of this (gays being in the spotlight) it has led to a revolution where gays are getting equality and peace in many parts of the world. The person who suffered with Aids can grow more compassionate and loving because of it. He knows suffering, and can relate to people.
Click to expand...

I understand what your saying. My point was that if there is a God and it is all-powerful or close to by our perspective allowing suffering to occur is not necessarily evil. It probably just doesn't really care about us one way or another.
 
M

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
bowingtoGod said:
Hello and salaam :)
I guess it depends on what your definition of "evil" is and what you believe about good or evil existing at all.

Everything that is bad, good can come out of it. Like... lets take for example Aids. Aids is awful and we would be better off without it, or would we? I am not so sure. It has put gays in the spotlight and at first it resulted in discrimination, but because of this (gays being in the spotlight) it has led to a revolution where gays are getting equality and peace in many parts of the world. The person who suffered with Aids can grow more compassionate and loving because of it. He knows suffering, and can relate to people.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. Any good that can arise from suffering can arise without the suffering altogether. Causing or allowing suffering is malevolent, and "the ends don't justify the means."

If I murder bank tellers in order to feed the homeless am I a good or an evil person?

Two claims I will make and defend:
1) Many of the "good" things that come from suffering would actually be meaningless in the absence of suffering. There is no "heroism" if there are no fires or monsters to save people from -- but would people really miss "heroes" if they weren't burning/being raped in the first place? I wouldn't think so.

2) Other "good" things that come from suffering could be done without the suffering, and as I said, the ends don't justify the means. Any God that causes or allows suffering even if they're trying to do some good is malevolent, especially if the good could come about without the suffering in the first place.
 
Madhuri

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Riverwolf said:
The discussion itself would probably be interesting, but imagine the process of reading it in the text of Two Towers itself. ;)

Trust me, if you like these kinds of things, then you'd probably like both Indian Epics. I, personally, prefer the story of the Ramayana over the Mahabharata.
Click to expand...

The Ramayana is awesome, but the version of Mahabharata I've read was written a lot better than the Ramayana version I've read. So much more seems to go on in the Mahabharata, so much more epic. While the Ramayana is the story of Rama and Sita, the Mahabharata is the story of a Dynasty. Starts before the birth of Bhishma and ends after the war, after the Pandavas are dead.

Man, I need to re-read it. Was so good.

Hey, have you seen the Ramayana animation (Legend of Prince Rama)? It's a film I loved while growing up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top