Church=Saved?

[may]

Well, I would certainly not say that you have to go to church to be saved (in fact, I don't believe that you ever can be 'saved' until you're dead as it's an ongoing race from which you can fall away at any time), but I would say that it helps in all kinds of ways. The church should give you support when you falter or doubt and, to use our medical metaphor, it is the hospital in which you find the medicine for curing your spiritual afflictions. The path, then, is obviously going to be harder outside the church but salvation rests with God alone, whether you go to church frequently or rarely.

James

i dont think we have to die to be saved ,the bible speaks about a (conclusion of a system of things) for our day
The Bible teaches that destruction will be selective, with only the ungodly destroyed

Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever 1 john 2;17

​

(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it

For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be........... matthew 24; 37-42

Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming

As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it . proverbs 2;22

 

[James the Persian]

i dont think we have to die to be saved ,the bible speaks about a (conclusion of a system of things) for our day
The Bible teaches that destruction will be selective, with only the ungodly destroyed

Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever 1 john 2;17



(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it

For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be........... matthew 24; 37-42

Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming

As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it . proverbs 2;22

What I meant was that nobody can know that they are saved in this life. If it is possible for anyone to fall away from the faith at any stage in their life (and the Scriptures seem very clear on this - we are called to persevere to the end), then even the most saintly person might fall in future. We can hope, therefore, that we will be saved, and we can certainly strive towards that goal, but until we are finally face to face with our Lord we will never truly know if we are saved or not.

James

 

[michel]

The church should give you support when you falter or doubt and, to use our medical metaphor, it is the hospital in which you find the medicine for curing your spiritual afflictions. The path, then, is obviously going to be harder outside the church but salvation rests with God alone, whether you go to church frequently or rarely.

James

No, I do not believe that you have to go to church to be saved. My salvation is through Jesus Christ. My belief is that Church is for edification and fellowship, not for salvation.

James and Todd; I have grouped you both, because I see both of you as seeing the purpose of the Church as the same. A question for you both then; does the internet, and forums the like of this one replace the need for a church (in the sense of the church being James - 'a spiritual hospital' and Todd 'for edification and fellowship'. ?

You see, I would argue that this forum is so wonderfully multi-faceted, that we get far greater 'vision' of God; we have permanent access to each other's thoughts, arguments, and yes, support and fellowship. I believe that 70% of members here genuinely care for the others; when one of us is 'down' there is an immediate rush by some members in particular (but quite a few of them) to help, even if only with words, and prayers.

What I meant was that nobody can know that they are saved in this life. If it is possible for anyone to fall away from the faith at any stage in their life (and the Scriptures seem very clear on this - we are called to persevere to the end), then even the most saintly person might fall in future. We can hope, therefore, that we will be saved, and we can certainly strive towards that goal, but until we are finally face to face with our Lord we will never truly know if we are saved or not.

James

I agree; no time for complacency. That horned twit is always trying to find a chink in your armour.........

 

[James the Persian]

You see, I would argue that this forum is so wonderfully multi-faceted, that we get far greater 'vision' of God; we have permanent access to each other's thoughts, arguments, and yes, support and fellowship. I believe that 70% of members here genuinely care for the others; when one of us is 'down' there is an immediate rush by some members in particular (but quite a few of them) to help, even if only with words, and prayers.

I think that this forum (and others like it) can certainly be helpful, but they cannot replace the Church. My ecclesiology doesn't allow for that. You see, part of the medicine provided by the Church is the sacraments. Clearly you can't get them here. In fact, sacraments like baptism, confession and, especially, the Eucharist are the strongest medicines we have. Were I to rely on myself and this forum alone it would be rather like going to the pharmacy for pain killers when I'd just lost my arm. In those circumstances you'd be better off going to A&E.

I'd say that a forum like this might be able to provide information and support (rather like Todd suggested the Church provides) but the Church provides more than this. His view makes Church sound more like a college than a hospital to me. Both have their value, undoubtedly, but I know where I'd rather go if I were seriously ill (and I am in the spiritual sense, as are we all).

James

 

[michel]

O.K; good point.

 

[may]

What I meant was that nobody can know that they are saved in this life. If it is possible for anyone to fall away from the faith at any stage in their life (and the Scriptures seem very clear on this - we are called to persevere to the end), then even the most saintly person might fall in future. We can hope, therefore, that we will be saved, and we can certainly strive towards that goal, but until we are finally face to face with our Lord we will never truly know if we are saved or not.

James

oh right ,little misunderstanding by me , i thought you meant that we had to die first, but the scriptures say otherwise for those who will survive the great tribulation in the conclusion of the system of things ,yes as you mentioned ,at the end of this system it will be a case of Jehovah God and Jesus christ doing the judging as to weather we are a sheep or a goat
Of course, in the final analysis, Jesus is the one who is appointed to render judgment. It is not for us to determine who are sheep and who are goats.—Mark 2:8; Luke 5:22; John 2:24, 25; Romans 14:10-12; 1 Corinthians 4:5

 

[jonny]

Well, I would certainly not say that you have to go to church to be saved (in fact, I don't believe that you ever can be 'saved' until you're dead as it's an ongoing race from which you can fall away at any time), but I would say that it helps in all kinds of ways. The church should give you support when you falter or doubt and, to use our medical metaphor, it is the hospital in which you find the medicine for curing your spiritual afflictions. The path, then, is obviously going to be harder outside the church but salvation rests with God alone, whether you go to church frequently or rarely.

James

I agree with James in that you don't have to go to church to be saved, but I believe that you do have to make certain covenants with God to be saved and those covenants are only found in his church. I believe that when you are baptized you covenant to be an active member in the Lord's kingdom. At church I have the ability to renew my baptisimal covenant through the sacrament.

I don't know that it is required, but I believe that church and temple attendance is a very important part of the process of qualifying for salvation.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't think going to church is necessary to being "saved" as you call it. But it helps.

It is where all our group activities (worship)take place.
It's in church where all the sacraments are performed.
It is where we give praise and thanks.
It is where we gain strenght as a community of Christians.
It is where we learn and teach.
It is where we combine our strength to help others.

It is where we share the Eucharist
This is where the two or three gathered together comes from.
And the admonition "to do this in remembrance of me"

Regular Church going is a privilege, more than an obligation.
and is an expression of the love for each other and Christ.

Terry____________________
Blessed are those who suffer in the cause of right, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.

 

[mormonman]

We believe that there are 3 distinct kingdoms of Heaven and outer darkness(hell). It depends on how you conduct yourself during your life, and the ordnances that are completed. We believe that people that have died w/o the gospel have a chance to accept it after death, and be exalted in the highest degree of Heaven. This is why we practice ordnances, in proxy, for the dead. Baptism is a necessity for exaltation (highest degree of Heaven).

 

[Buttons*]

Church is a good thing, but not a necissary thing, in my opinion. It's nice to be together to talk about religion (like we do here at RF) but i dont feel that people should be like herd animals (as they sometimes are in a church) and tend to believe everything and anything the "leader" says. (ie, David Karesh)

 

[CrystalSnow]

Personally, I don't believe you have to go to church or anything to be saved. Since I'm Christian, I believe that, as long as you believe that Christ Jesus actually came to the earth and died for your sins to be forgiven, then you are saved. That is, if you accept the fact that you can't do everything on your own and such.

I believe that church is just a way to come back to God once a week (or more) just so you don't fall.

 

[glasgowchick]

Does it not also say in Matthew that where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name? So, if lets say you and a friend or 2 got together and worshiped, would that not constitute a church? Note: From what I understand, the word church was never written in the Bible, it's and English translation for assembly.

Hi jgallandt, I believe that all baptized believers are the church, so I would agree that when 2 or 3 are gathered together in His name for worship would be classed as a church.

 

[michel]

going to an institution 's building will not save/convert anyone.

to be converted/saved is not: joining a church, obeying a pope, confessing ones sins to a man, doing penances, eating the host and then expelling it out into the draft, praying to dead saints ,praying to mary, expecting to be saved by any human including mary, water baptism, these are all works and we are saved by God's grace, upon our repenting of our unbelief of the Father in heaven and His Son whom he sent to save us.
John 8:24 "if you repent not that "I AM" you will die in your sins lost."

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