Churches full of hypocrites? sinners?

[PhileoTruth]

If you are unswervingly convinced that churches are full of hypocrites, then why are you not among them? God as your witness: are you not also liar, a pretender in some respects?

If churches are so full of sinners, then why are you not among them? Are they not sinners who, LIKE YOU, need the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ Jesus for the atonement of sin?

Should your faith be in the (im)perfection of the church or in eternal perfection of the Christ?

 

[fenrisx]

or gnosis

 

[Skwim]

If you are unswervingly convinced that churches are full of hypocrites, then why are you not among them? God as your witness: are you not also liar, a pretender in some respects?

If churches are so full of sinners, then why are you not among them? Are they not sinners who, LIKE YOU, need the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ Jesus for the atonement of sin?

Should your faith be in the (im)perfection of the church or in eternal perfection of the Christ?

As Grouch Marx once said, "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."

 

[Man of Faith]

As a believer I strive to be like Christ and please God in all that I do. Of course I fail because I still have this ole flesh to contend with. However that isn't going to stop me from gathering together with others of like mind in one accord to worship the creator of everything we see. If you want to call missing a mark a hyprocrite then that is fine, call everybody that strives to do something and fails a hyprocrite. I remember many bosses of mine giving me a work plan that they know I couldn't meet just so they could see how far I could get. They never called me a hyprocrite because I didn't meet the plan.

There are hyprocrites in the church, don't get me wrong, and there are many hyprocrites that aren't religious or go to church. But for the most part it is full of people that are trying and wanting to live the kind of life that God would approve of.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

If you are unswervingly convinced that churches are full of hypocrites, then why are you not among them? God as your witness: are you not also liar, a pretender in some respects?

If churches are so full of sinners, then why are you not among them? Are they not sinners who, LIKE YOU, need the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ Jesus for the atonement of sin?

Should your faith be in the (im)perfection of the church or in eternal perfection of the Christ?

From this statement your saying that all Christians still sin and do it daily and the same for non-christians too. So your asking why were not at church because it's simple.
I'm sinner and I'm telling you I'm a sinner.
Your a christian and a sinner, but you say your not sinner. Thats lying there my friend. While I do lie I don't want to be known as Thesavorofpan the hyprocrite. Understand?

 

[dallas1125]

From this statement your saying that all Christians still sin and do it daily and the same for non-christians too. So your asking why were not at church because it's simple.
I'm sinner and I'm telling you I'm a sinner.
Your a christian and a sinner, but you say your not sinner. Thats lying there my friend. While I do lie I don't want to be known as Thesavorofpan the hyprocrite. Understand?

I dont know of many christians who claim to not be sinners, but rather trying to not be sinners. Theres a difference

Anyone who claims to not be sinner would be a hypocrite but being christian doesn't make you any better than anyone else and this seems to be where people get the idea that christians think they are perfect.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

I dont know of many christians who claim to not be sinners, but rather trying to not be sinners. Theres a difference

Anyone who claims to not be sinner would be a hypocrite but being christian doesn't make you any better than anyone else and this seems to be where people get the idea that christians think they are perfect.

No people seem to think this because some Christians act like their perfect.

 

[LuisDantas]

If you are unswervingly convinced that churches are full of hypocrites, then why are you not among them? God as your witness: are you not also liar, a pretender in some respects?

If churches are so full of sinners, then why are you not among them? Are they not sinners who, LIKE YOU, need the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ Jesus for the atonement of sin?

Should your faith be in the (im)perfection of the church or in eternal perfection of the Christ?

Is this question directed specifically towards Christians? I ask because most non-Christians will probably choose a third option, as is only natural. Not too many people outside of Christianity make a point of believing that they need Jesus' sacrifice to atone for their sins, you know.

 

[dallas1125]

No people seem to think this because some Christians act like their perfect.

Yep, they aren't though. Some christians may be hypocrites because of the way they act but what does that prove? That they are hypocrites.

One problem though is that a lot of christians dont realize that they are being brats. Its a very common thing, and is a product of human attitudes.

Funny actually, ive had some issues with brats lately...

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Yep, they aren't though. Some christians may be hypocrites because of the way they act but what does that prove? That they are hypocrites.

One problem though is that a lot of christians dont realize that they are being brats. Its a very common thing, and is a product of human attitudes.

Funny actually, ive had some issues with brats lately...

Exactly that their not what they say they are.

A lot of Christians do that because they belong to a 'group' and because of that they think themselves better then others. Thus making them hyprocrites. But there's hyprocrites among every religion or lack of there, but whats the whole point of this arguement? To say that I'm a sinner and I'm proud of it. I'm no longer force to conform to stuff that I don't feel is right.

 

[dallas1125]

Exactly that their not what they say they are.

How are they not what they say they are?

 

[Thesavorofpan]

How are they not what they say they are?

They say that they will not sin, yet they do sin. Understand?

 

[dallas1125]

They say that they will not sin, yet they do sin. Understand?

No, they say they will try not to sin but still sin.

The attitude that they are better than all of us is annoying but thats probably a separate issue.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

No, they say they will try not to sin but still sin.

The attitude that they are better than all of us is annoying but thats probably a separate issue.

I don't think its a seperate issue. If you think that your better than people or higher up then people you think you can get away with stuff and thus thats why you have scandels with church pastors and preachers.

 

[dallas1125]

I don't think its a seperate issue. If you think that your better than people or higher up then people you think you can get away with stuff and thus thats why you have scandels with church pastors and preachers.

Its sad, but a lot christians as I said earlier dont realize how "bratty" they are being. It is a terrible thing, but they need to realize they are no better than anyone else. A sense of entitlement (as I like to call it) is a terrible thing and is never appropriate. This sense of entitlement is not part of christian theology.

 

[Maury83]

For centuries, many believed that God requires obedience. They went to church to gain God's favour, either through rites conducted by a priest or through guidance provided by a priest. Of course many were aware of the hypocrisy in religion. The role of religion in war was well known, as was the abusive conduct of some clergymen. Most people however felt that religion itself was good. Others liked the mystique, the tradition and the music, some even saw value in the threat of eternal damnation in hell (which is a teaching not found in the Bible). Many preachers just taught their own thoughts without basing any of their teachings on the Bible, all they wanted is popularity, teaching that God would accept you no matter how you lead your life.

 

[Erebus]

If you are unswervingly convinced that churches are full of hypocrites, then why are you not among them? God as your witness: are you not also liar, a pretender in some respects?

If churches are so full of sinners, then why are you not among them? Are they not sinners who, LIKE YOU, need the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ Jesus for the atonement of sin?

Should your faith be in the (im)perfection of the church or in eternal perfection of the Christ?

Yeah I'm actually pretty happy with being a sinner. You shed a lot of baggage accepting what you are you know?
If people want to go to Church and genuinely believe that Jesus is their ticket to eternal paradise, then good for them. Just don't come complaining when you find yourself on a one way route into the Underworld

 

[ChristineES]

Follower of Jesus or not, I am not perfect and I have never claimed to be. Christians believe that they are not perfect but forgiven. Sure, there may be some that are "big-headed" or "conceited" but those are the minority and not the majority.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Christianity DIR - Religious Education Forum


?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Should your faith be in the (im)perfection of the church or in eternal perfection of the Christ?

But here's the issue with this: IMO, there's no good reason to assume from the outset in the "eternal perfection of the Christ". The only lens we have to view this through is that imperfect church. How do you tell the difference between an aberration in the lens and a flaw in the thing you're viewing?

Is this question directed specifically towards Christians? I ask because most non-Christians will probably choose a third option, as is only natural. Not too many people outside of Christianity make a point of believing that they need Jesus' sacrifice to atone for their sins, you know.

I agree.

I get the sense that PhileoTruth is trying to sell us the solution, but many of us haven't even bought the problem yet.