Churches in the Middle East attacked over Pope's comments.

[Ody]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_churches_5

No injuries were reported in the attacks, which left church doors charred and walls pockmarked with bullet holes and scorched by firebombs. Churches of various denominations were targeted.

Proof that the need to give off violence is a cause in itself, they didn't differentiate between Catholic and others. Hamas has been quick to denounce the attacks. My thoughts on that are irrelevant

It should be noted, that this is a freak occurence in today's middle east, however the mind of the Middle Easterner tends to be touchy after the cartoon incident.

 

[barometer]

Violence in the name of religion just confuses me. It simply degrades which ever religion your trying to defend. Unless yours is a religion of hate and destruction.

 

[Buttercup]

Of course those attacks are very unfortunate but, I am happy to read this:

"Ayman Daraghmeh, a legislator from the ruling Islamic militant Hamas group, denounced the attacks."

"In Nablus, merchant Khaled Ramadan, who was dressed in traditional Islamic garb, said the pope's comments were unforgivable, but that Palestinians must not fight among themselves.

"We are one people and violent reactions like these should not happen here," he said."

 

[Smoke]

It's not yet known whether the murder of an Italian nun in Mogadishu was in reaction to Benedict's remarks. 63-year-old Sister Lionela was at the hospital where she worked when she was shot in the back by unnamed gunmen. "A senior source among Somalia’s Islamists" told Gulfnews, "There is a very high possibility the people who killed her were angered by the Catholic Pope's recent comments against Islam."

During Friday prayers, Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin, a prominent Mogadishu cleric, declared that "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim." (Aljazeera)

Stories:
Aljazeera: [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Italian nun shot dead in Somaliahttp://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8A36ACA6-0CD8-4E92-9DF8-CD716EE03310.htm[/FONT]
Gulfnews:Nun shot dead in Mogadishu
SomaliNet News: Somalia: Italian aid worker shot dead in Mogadishu
Shabelle.net: Gunmen fatally shoots an Italian aid worker in Mogadishu

 

[Buttercup]

It's not yet known whether the murder of an Italian nun in Mogadishu was in reaction to Benedict's remarks. 63-year-old Sister Lionela was at the hospital where she worked when she was shot in the back by unnamed gunmen. "senior source among Somalia’s Islamists" told Gulfnews, "There is a very high possibility the people who killed her were angered by the Catholic Pope's recent comments against Islam."

During Friday prayers, Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin, a prominent Mogadishu cleric, declared that "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim." (Aljazeera)

Stories:
Aljazeera: [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Italian nun shot dead in Somaliahttp://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8A36ACA6-0CD8-4E92-9DF8-CD716EE03310.htm[/FONT]
Gulfnews:Nun shot dead in Mogadishu
SomaliNet News: Somalia: Italian aid worker shot dead in Mogadishu
Shabelle.net: Gunmen fatally shoots an Italian aid worker in Mogadishu

Oh my god! That is horrible.

 

[Buttercup]

Sooooooo, this type of action is proving the statement made by the pope to be true.....idiots! Don't they see what they are doing?

 

[Ezzedean]

Haven't mosques been attacked also? Either way it's horrible to see that these are happening... but it's not like muslims are causing all the mischief alone. These acts need to stop immediately.. and if they don't stop right now after his speech today... then it's safe to cal them idiots. As for the nun who was shot in the back...to blame that on a muslim without having any idea of who it was in unfair. As to the person who said that if anyone insults the prophet they should be killed... that's a little crazy. That was the most non-muslim comment he could have made. The prophet Muhammed himself used to get insulted during his lifetime by his enemies on a daily basis. They would lie about him and slander his name all the time and he would always stay calm... I've told this many times to people on this forum... but his companions would ask him why he stayed so calm and why he never got upset... and he would always tell them that when they attacked with lies and insults.. it was because we were winning and the enemy was getting weaker.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Buttercup]

But, Ezzedean, what about this comment from MidnightBlue's post.

"During Friday prayers, Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin, a prominent Mogadishu cleric, declared that "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim." (Aljazeera)

 

[Halcyon]

During Friday prayers, Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin, a prominent Mogadishu cleric, declared that "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim." (Aljazeera)

How does that translate into killing an innocent nun?

I can't understand people who take out their vengence on the innocent, the nun didn't make the remarks - just boggles the mind.

Violence in the name of religion just confuses me. It simply degrades which ever religion your trying to defend. Unless yours is a religion of hate and destruction.

Exactly. I found something on another message board which sums up my feelings about this sort of violence quite nicely;

I think the rioting, screaming, fire bombing mobs do more to insult Muhammad than the cartoonist, even though I believe the cartoons were both needlessly and intentionally offensive, and I would not have published them.

The wild-eyed folks who are essentially chanting, "Death to everyone who disagrees with us!" end up drawing their own caricature of the Prophet. They are claiming that he would bless their fulminations and tantrums. If Muslims are called to represent Allah and the Prophet in the world, then the mobs are presenting a picture which is not very different from that presented in those cartoons.

 

[Ezzedean]

But, Ezzedean, what about this comment from MidnightBlue's post.

"During Friday prayers, Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin, a prominent Mogadishu cleric, declared that "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim." (Aljazeera)

I wrote about this comment in my post... for some reason it sent my post while I was still typing and I hadn't finished everything I had to say. I deleted the unfinished post and kept the finished one. If the Sheikh believes we should react this way to insults made towards Muhammed.. he must then believe we should react this way to insults made towards Jesus, Moses, Noah, and Abraham all of which are major prophets in Islam. If Muhammed didn't react in such a manner to people insulting him, then neither should we.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Smoke]

An Iraqi Muslim group has sworn to attack the Vatican:

The Iraqi group Jaish al-Mujahidin (Mujahidin's Army) said: "We swear that we will destroy their cross in the heart of Rome . . . and that their Vatican will be hit and wept over by the Pope."
​

Source: Sheik says, 'kill the Pope'

 

[Djamila]

"I think the rioting, screaming, fire bombing mobs do more to insult Muhammad than the cartoonist, even though I believe the cartoons were both needlessly and intentionally offensive, and I would not have published them.

The wild-eyed folks who are essentially chanting, "Death to everyone who disagrees with us!" end up drawing their own caricature of the Prophet. They are claiming that he would bless their fulminations and tantrums."

Now that is the truth, in my opinion, also. The last sentence, which I removed from the quote, I don't agree with. Those who would judge Jesus or Mohammed by the worst, or even the best, of their followers need to get to life. You wouldn't even do that with the same generation - judge my parents by my actions - much less people who lived centuries upon centuries ago.

Frubals to you, though!

 

[Smoke]

Those who would judge Jesus or Mohammed by the worst, or even the best, of their followers need to get to life.

The actions of Christians and Muslims are no reflection on Jesus and Muhammad, I agree. But I'm not at all convinced that Christians are generally followers of Jesus, or that Muslims are generally followers of Muhammad. I'd have a great deal more respect for both religions if they showed a serious inclination to follow the teachings of their putative founders.

Of course, there are Christians who try to follow the teachings of Jesus, and Muslims who try to follow the teachings of the Qur'an. But they seem to be a tiny and marginalized minority in both cases.

 

[Djamila]

I think they are more numerous than you believe, simply by circumstance, Midnight. Most Christians and most Muslims are never presented with an opportunity to act differently than either Jesus or Muhammed thought. A suburban housewife in Dallas only has so many opportunities to truly contradict the teachings of Jesus in any significant way, and the same is true of a suburban housewife in Bosnia.

But I believe those who make a conscious decision to follow the example set by their prophets, and truly succeed in this task, are rare.

 

[Smoke]

I think they are more numerous than you believe, simply by circumstance, Midnight. Most Christians and most Muslims are never presented with an opportunity to act differently than either Jesus or Muhammed thought. A suburban housewife in Dallas only has so many opportunities to truly contradict the teachings of Jesus in any significant way, and the same is true of a suburban housewife in Bosnia.

I disagree. The teachings of Jesus apply to people in humble circumstances as well as to the powerful: Do your praying and fasting in secret, clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, give to him who asks you, visit those in prison, treat others as you'd like to be treated, etc. The housewife has as many opportunities to follow the teachings of Jesus, or ignore them, as the priest or preacher has.

 

[Djamila]

True, but most people do follow the rules you've given as examples? At least in Bosnia they do?

 

[Smoke]

True, but most people do follow the rules you've given as examples? At least in Bosnia they do?

Do most Serbian Orthodox treat Bosniaks as they'd like to be treated? Do most Croatian Catholics treat Serbs as they'd like to be treated?

 

[Djamila]

In Sarajevo, yes.

 

[doppelganger]

Exactly. I found something on another message board which sums up my feelings about this sort of violence quite nicely;

I think the rioting, screaming, fire bombing mobs do more to insult Muhammad than the cartoonist, even though I believe the cartoons were both needlessly and intentionally offensive, and I would not have published them.

The generalization quoted by the Pope in his speech was untrue, unwarranted and imprudent. However, people who commit such acts in response to someone's words (or a drawing) do far, far more to slander their faith than the original offense (whether Christian, Islam, Hindu or any other creed).

 

[Smoke]

In Sarajevo, yes.

Then you're very fortunate. As a gay man, I can't say I've been much impressed with Christian behavior, but then we may have a lot more fundamentalists here than you have there.