Churches in the Middle East attacked over Pope's comments.

[Djamila]

Then you're very fortunate. As a gay man, I can't say I've been much impressed with Christian behavior, but then we may have a lot more fundamentalists here than you have there.

Now, you didn't say anything about gay men. It was only 15 years ago that raping suspected lesbians was considered a public service in socialist Yugoslavia.

 

[c0da]

It's not yet known whether the murder of an Italian nun in Mogadishu was in reaction to Benedict's remarks. 63-year-old Sister Lionela was at the hospital where she worked when she was shot in the back by unnamed gunmen. "A senior source among Somalia’s Islamists" told Gulfnews, "There is a very high possibility the people who killed her were angered by the Catholic Pope's recent comments against Islam."

During Friday prayers, Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin, a prominent Mogadishu cleric, declared that "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim." (Aljazeera)

Stories:
Aljazeera: Italian nun shot dead in Somalia
Gulfnews:Nun shot dead in Mogadishu
SomaliNet News: Somalia: Italian aid worker shot dead in Mogadishu
Shabelle.net: Gunmen fatally shoots an Italian aid worker in Mogadishu

Ugh. I guess I was a being a bit naive when I thought to myself that at least the reaction from Muslims hadn't been as bad as that during the Mohammad cartoon crap.

 

[ayani]

Now, you didn't say anything about gay men. It was only 15 years ago that raping suspected lesbians was considered a public service in socialist Yugoslavia.

is the winking emoticon really necessary here? i'm a little startled by the friendly-casual tone it implies as it preceeds a pretty horrible bit of information.

as to the OP- i've read about the murdered nun. this is grotesque.

when will people learn that if you don't want others to regard your religion as backwards and bloody, you shouldn't use that same religion to excuse/permit rage and murder?

 

[Ezzedean]

How do we even know a muslim committed the murder? Has it been confirmed by the press? If so can someone please post the confirmation. I haven't seen anything which states that a muslim did it, only that people assume a muslim did it. Am I wrong here?

 

[Buttercup]

You're right Ezzedean....it is speculation at this point who the assailant is.

But, when you have a Somalian cleric say this......it's a good bet it was a Muslim:

"During Friday prayers, Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin, a prominent Mogadishu cleric, declared that "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim." (Aljazeera)"

 

[Djamila]

It's a good bet the murderer was Muslim not only because of the timing and circumstances, as well as the identity of the victim, but simply because of the population structure in Somalia. What are the odds the murderer is from, what is it? The 0.02% of Somalis who aren't Muslim?

 

[Buttercup]

It's a good bet the murderer was Muslim not only because of the timing and circumstances, as well as the identity of the victim, but simply because of the population structure in Somalia. What are the odds the murderer is from, what is it? The 0.02% of Somalis who aren't Muslim?

I guess the murderer didn't take into consideration that it wasn't the pope he was killing. Not that it would have been justified. He just picked the nearest Catholic.

 

[Djamila]

It's gross, Buttercup. It seems to happen all the time. Take the Sikh man run over in the street in America after 9/11, simply because the driver thought he was Muslim. He wasn't even Muslim, so twisted.

And a Nun? For the love of God...

It should be a death sentence crime just to disrespect one, much less murder one.

 

[Buttercup]

And a Nun? For the love of God...

It should be a death sentence crime just to disrespect one, much less murder one.

You're sounding a bit too radical Muslim here, Mila. Though I do get your thoughts.

 

[Djamila]

Hehehe. Did you just call me a radical Muslim for defending a Nun?

Tsk tsk tsk...

Well, that's it. I give up. I'm crossing over to the dark side. LOL

 

[robtex]

What bothers me about this whole spectale of violence after a comment is made by a religious leader is that the "non-extremists" and muslims who don't didn't firebomb churches, or attack christians DO NOT hold the extremists as responsible for their actions. By letting the violent muslims, wheather it be over danish cartoons or the Pope's comments, commit violence without denouncing the violence in their mosques, or attempting to bring the muslim crimminals to justice are not contesting this type of behavior and by being silent are being compliant and thus condoning the behavior.

It is the same as a chrisitian church that knows a member in its state assassinated an abortion doctor but doesn't offer up any information or speak out against that violence. In the religious world acts of violence you don't admonish you condone if they are done by members of your faith.

footnotes:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060918/ap_on_re_mi_ea/muslims_pope_3
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Papacy_and_the_Vatican

 

[ayani]

What bothers me about this whole spectale of violence after a comment is made by a religious leader is that the "non-extremists" and muslims who don't didn't firebomb churches, or attack christians DO NOT hold the extremists as responsible for their actions.

i agree. this brings back a point another person made here about "not all muslims are terrorists".

i think he said "i understand that not all muslims are terrorists. but i'd be more sympathetic if i saw muslims actively protesting "not in my name" in response to the horrible things done by other muslims in the name of islam, instead of sitting quiet in silent defence of these actions."

an absence of protest and outrage says alot, too.

 

[Djamila]

The thing I don't understand about this point of view is the literally obscene level to which one who holds it would have to be ignoring world events. In the past few days, I've seen calls for calm and condemnations of the actions from Muslim groups in just about every country in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia?

And you people behave as though nothing has been said? I just don't understand it. Call your media networks and lecture them, not us.

 

[ayani]

The thing I don't understand about this point of view is the literally obscene level to which one who holds it would have to be ignoring world events. In the past few days, I've seen calls for calm and condemnations of the actions from Muslim groups in just about every country in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia?

And you people behave as though nothing has been said? I just don't understand it. Call your media networks and lecture them, not us.

i don't mean to lecture you, Djamila.

 

[Djamila]

No, I know you weren't, gracie. Sorry. You can tell by now I... express strongly? LOL

 

[robtex]

And you people behave as though nothing has been said? I just don't understand it. Call your media networks and lecture them, not us.

Djamila, you already voiced your dissent of the actions. I certainly wouldn't think of you as apathetic to the violence. I am just saying the mosques and muslims who are apathetic or pretend it didn't happen or pretend it doesn't matter are, by their silence, sliently condoning such actions. As a matter fact I was going to frubal you on this thread here in a second for your non-approval of the violence over the Pope's speech.

 

[Eynah]

While I do think the Pope's comments weren't in good taste, surely there are better ways to show that than going about killing Nuns. If anything, this is giving his comments more merit. I just hope no one really tries to kill the pope, that will make things even worse.

The thing I don't understand about this point of view is the literally obscene level to which one who holds it would have to be ignoring world events. In the past few days, I've seen calls for calm and condemnations of the actions from Muslim groups in just about every country in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia?

And you people behave as though nothing has been said? I just don't understand it. Call your media networks and lecture them, not us.

:sorry1:
The problem is that most people tend to focus on the negative. I have to say, I'm somewhat like that as well. I think it's great that people are taking the chance to say this. I just hope that it's listened to.

 

[GloriaPatri]

Why are Muslims so sensitive to criticism of their religion?

 

[ayani]

Why are Muslims so sensitive to criticism of their religion?

many people, GP, are sensitive to cristicism of their beliefs.

and as Djamila pointed out, most muslims :: do not :: go about torching buildings or hurting people to protest another's criticism. though i do wonder why more muslims than any other religious body seem to respond this way to criticism.

do muslims simply feel more victimized and attacked by the west? what is the rational (Quranic or otherwise) for using anger destructively if one wants their faith portrayed and understood positively?

 

[kai]

many people, GP, are sensitive to cristicism of their beliefs.

and as Djamila pointed out, most muslims :: do not :: go about torching buildings or hurting people to protest another's criticism. though i do wonder why more muslims than any other religious body seem to respond this way to criticism.

do muslims simply feel more victimized and attacked by the west? what is the rational (Quranic or otherwise) for using anger destructively if one wants their faith portrayed and understood positively?

yes its a puzzle why someone would call for the death of the pope because he percieved the pope said his religion was violent!