Climate change denial

[Saint Frankenstein]

It was a way to say that in the eighties we were 4 billion. Now we are 8 billion. The double.
Earth cannot sustain this growth at exponential rate...you know... 2 4 16....

Why do people still believe this nonsense of non-stop population growth, and so think we need to stop reproducing to "save the planet"? It's total nonsense. It's outdated crap from the '60s and '70s.

We know the population is slated to reach about 10 billion then it's going to decline - the decline will start before the end of the century, even! - as the majority of countries are below replacement level in their birthrates. Some countries are catastrophically below replacement levels, like Italy! You're on a similar level with Japan, and Japan's population is slated to be halved by the end of the century. Yours, too, unless you import a bunch of foreigners to replace your plummeting numbers.

This is causing a huge bulge in the number of elderly people in the population of developed nations, with post-industrial service oriented economies being hardest hit. (China is also facing a severe population crash due to its policies.) That means there's going to be less young, working age people and more and more old people for the foreseeable future. This is not sustainable, economically or otherwise. This is also a major reason why globalists like to push immigration in developed countries, to literally replace the declining population.

So what we need to do is encourage young people to have children. This isn't a future issue. It's already a problem now. It's also a reason why our political leaders tend to be so old, instead of young and vital.

World population is projected to peak at 10.3 billion in 2080s, UN says

The world’s population is expected to grow by more than 2 billion people in the next decades and peak in the 2080s at around 10.3 billion, a major shift from a decade ago, a new report by the United Nations said Thursday.

www.nbclosangeles.com

 

[icehorse]

How is it empowerment and not enticement?

First off, can't it be both? But more to the point, I think it's common knowledge that when girls and women get good education, rises in population are reduced. If a woman with a decent education understands this incentive, it puts her in the driver's seat in her relationship with her husband, she can be a huge breadwinner in her family.

DNA is around 99.9% accurate for fathers.

Sure, if the community has the technology, and if possible fathers can be tracked down. But first ya gotta catch 'em.​

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@icehorse, I guess facts **** you off. Not my problem. Everything I said is backed by the latest population research. The population alarmists are just wrong and stuck decades in the past.

 

[icehorse]

Why do people still believe this nonsense of non-stop population growth, and so think we need to stop reproducing to "save the planet"? It's total nonsense. It's outdated crap from the '60s and '70s.

We know the population is slated to reach about 10 billion then it's going to decline - the decline will start before the end of the century, even! - as the majority of countries are below replacement level in their birthrates. Some countries are catastrophically below replacement levels, like Italy! You're on a similar level with Japan, and Japan's population is slated to be halved by the end of the century. Yours, too, unless you import a bunch of foreigners to replace your plummeting numbers.

This is causing a huge bulge in the number of elderly people in the population of developed nations, with post-industrial service oriented economies being hardest hit. (China is also facing a severe population crash due to its policies.) That means there's going to be less young, working age people and more and more old people for the foreseeable future. This is not sustainable, economically or otherwise. This is also a major reason why globalists like to push immigration in developed countries, to literally replace the declining population.

So what we need to do is encourage young people to have children. This isn't a future issue. It's already a problem now. It's also a reason why our political leaders tend to be so old, instead of young and vital.

World population is projected to peak at 10.3 billion in 2080s, UN says

The world’s population is expected to grow by more than 2 billion people in the next decades and peak in the 2080s at around 10.3 billion, a major shift from a decade ago, a new report by the United Nations said Thursday.

www.nbclosangeles.com

It's quite understandable that you're forwarding the lies about healthy economies that we've all beed fed from birth. But we have to wake up.

A couple of problems with your post:

1 - You claim the population will cap at around 10 billion. I think that's about correct. But at some point the "elderly budge" you mention is going to have to be dealt with. And the longer we wait, the worse that problem will be.

2 - 10 billion is simply not a sustainable number. We're running out of topsoil, crucial for growing crops. We're draining our fresh water aquifers far faster than they are being replenished. The world's fisheries all in serious trouble from over fishing. We're destroying biodiversity across the planet at an astonishing rate, and we have virtually no idea how dangerous a loss of diversity could be to our ecosystems. We're deforesting the planet at a horrific rate, and we get a lot of our exygen from forests.

3 - It is a dangerous bit of propaganda to reinforce the idea that economies must grow endlessly to be healthy. It is simply not possible for such growth to happen on a finite planet.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's quite understandable that you're forwarding the lies about healthy economies that we've all beed fed from birth. But we have to wake up.

A couple of problems with your post:

1 - You claim the population will cap at around 10 billion. I think that's about correct. But at some point the "elderly budge" you mention is going to have to be dealt with. And the longer we wait, the worse that problem will be.

2 - 10 billion is simply not a sustainable number. We're running out of topsoil, crucial for growing crops. We're draining our fresh water aquifers far faster than they are being replenished. The world's fisheries all in serious trouble from over fishing. We're destroying biodiversity across the planet at an astonishing rate, and we have virtually no idea how dangerous a loss of diversity could be to our ecosystems. We're deforesting the planet at a horrific rate, and we get a lot of our exygen from forests.

3 - It is a dangerous bit of propaganda to reinforce the idea that economies must grow endlessly to be healthy. It is simply not possible for such growth to happen on a finite planet.

No one said anything about endless growth. I don't believe in that kind of economics. It's more about avoiding catastrophic population shrinkage so our societies aren't totally decimated. I also can foresee intense intergenerational conflicts as the interests of the old will outweigh those of the young, as the number of older/elderly goes up and up (with all the social and political power that goes with it, as older people have more power than the young as it is, because they have more money), and the number of younger people shrinks. You think angry, disenfranchised young people won't turn more and more towards violence?

 

[I Am Hugh]

How about something like this:
Give every woman who reaches menopause having had zero kids, a $500k retirement bonus
Give every woman who reaches menopause having had one kid and $250k bonus

How did that sort of thing work for China?

 

[icehorse]

No one said anything about endless growth. I don't believe in that kind of economics. It's more about avoiding catastrophic population shrinkage so our societies aren't totally decimated. I also can foresee intense intergenerational conflicts as the interests of the old will outweigh those of the young, as the number of older/elderly goes up and up (with all the social and political power that goes with it, as older people have more power than the young as it is, because they have more money), and the number of younger people shrinks. You think angry, disenfranchised young people won't turn more and more towards violence?

We agree on the idea that we're facing what you called the "elderly budge".

I think you're agreeing with the idea that we can't have endless population growth, correct?

So how does your math work? When do we actually address the bulge?

It strikes me that you're repeating what the oligarchs tell us. And they do NOT have our long term interest at heart. If we follow their lead, the bugle and the disenfranchised youth issue will be kicked down the road a few years and they will be far worse when the inevitably catch up with us.

 

[icehorse]

How did that sort of thing work for China?

China never did anything of the sort. You have to consider the basics of motivation science. China more or less used a vicious "carrot and stick" form of extrinsic motivation. That is the lowest, least effective form of motivation.

The solution I'm proposing leaves all the autonomy with the individual, not the state. That leads to intrinsic motivation and that's a higher, more robust and reliable form of motivation.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

We agree on the idea that we're facing what you called the "elderly budge".

I think you're agreeing with the idea that we can't have endless population growth, correct?

So how does your math work? When do we actually address the bulge?

It strikes me that you're repeating what the oligarchs tell us. And they do NOT have our long term interest at heart. If we follow their lead, the bugle and the disenfranchised youth issue will be kicked down the road a few years and they will be far worse when the inevitably catch up with us.

The oligarchs are the ones telling us not to reproduce. The notion that depopulation is a good thing was very popular and pushed in the society for decades, notably with that silly Population Bomb book that came out 50 or so years ago but has totally failed on it's predictions. So I don't know what you're talking about. I just recommend that young people have at least a couple of kids on average to balance things out and help us out a bit in the future, is all.

 

[We Never Know]

The oligarchs are the ones telling us not to reproduce. The notion that depopulation is a good thing was very popular and pushed in the society for decades, notably with that silly Population Bomb book that came out 50 or so years ago but has totally failed on it's predictions. So I don't know what you're talking about. I just recommend that young people have at least a couple of kids on average to balance things out and help us out a bit in the future, is all.

So is Vance on to something with his no cat ladies lol

 

[I Am Hugh]

China never did anything of the sort. You have to consider the basics of motivation science. China more or less used a vicious "carrot and stick" form of extrinsic motivation. That is the lowest, least effective form of motivation.

The solution I'm proposing leaves all the autonomy with the individual, not the state. That leads to intrinsic motivation and that's a higher, more robust and reliable form of motivation.

 

[We Never Know]

The oligarchs are the ones telling us not to reproduce. The notion that depopulation is a good thing was very popular and pushed in the society for decades, notably with that silly Population Bomb book that came out 50 or so years ago but has totally failed on it's predictions. So I don't know what you're talking about. I just recommend that young people have at least a couple of kids on average to balance things out and help us out a bit in the future, is all.

Btw, the last of the baby boomers will hit 60 this year.

 

[We Never Know]

The oligarchs are the ones telling us not to reproduce. The notion that depopulation is a good thing was very popular and pushed in the society for decades, notably with that silly Population Bomb book that came out 50 or so years ago but has totally failed on it's predictions. So I don't know what you're talking about. I just recommend that young people have at least a couple of kids on average to balance things out and help us out a bit in the future, is all.

Here as an interesting site that I visit.

It has births vs deaths daily and yearly.

Births are over two times the deaths.

It also has all kinds of other info by the numbers and I mean all kinds. Just keeps scrolling down.

Worldometer - real time world statistics

Live world statistics on population, government and economics, society and media, environment, food, water, energy and health.

www.worldometers.info

 

[We Never Know]

Being this is about climate, here are some numbers that have an affect on climate.

Worldometer - real time world statistics

Live world statistics on population, government and economics, society and media, environment, food, water, energy and health.

www.worldometers.info

 

[icehorse]

The oligarchs are the ones telling us not to reproduce. The notion that depopulation is a good thing was very popular and pushed in the society for decades, notably with that silly Population Bomb book that came out 50 or so years ago but has totally failed on it's predictions. So I don't know what you're talking about. I just recommend that young people have at least a couple of kids on average to balance things out and help us out a bit in the future, is all.

Please check your math.

 

[icehorse]

Dude, I know that China had a vicious population control policy. My proposal is nothing like China's policy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Please check your math.

Lol, that's all you have to say?

 

[I Am Hugh]

Dude, I know that China had a vicious population control policy. My proposal is nothing like China's policy.

Dude, it doesn't matter what your incentive or methodology is because overpopulation isn't the problem. Decline in population is. Do some research. Eugenics disguised as technocracy.

"In my estimation, more misery has been created by reformers than by any other force in human history. Show me someone who says, "Something must be done!" and I will show you a head full of vicious intentions that have no other outlet. What we must strive for always! is to find the natural flow and go with it." - The Reverend Mother Taraza, Conversational Record, BG File GSXXMAAT9; Frank Herbert, Heretics of Dune

"The Malthusians are not interested in increasing food production, lifting the poor out of poverty or developing technology to increase our ability to share in the abundant wealth of the world. Instead they wish for the forcible sterilization of the poor, the consignment of billions around the world to grinding poverty and the elimination of vast swathes of the population. They do not wish to reduce the pain and suffering in the world, but to increase it. In short, the overpopulation hysteria is a convenient lie for the Chicken Littles who stand to benefit from the panic they themselves cause.

"For the rest of us, it comes down to a simple question: After 200 years of the sky failing to fall, isn’t it time to stop listening to Chicken Little?" - The Last word on Overpopulation

"Eugenics is basically a movement among the elite to eradicate what they deem the inferior classes, and that’s the inferior social classes, racial classes, ethnic classes. More or less everyone who isn’t up to their standards. And after eradicating those classes, what they aim to do is genetically engineer themselves to such a high level that the remaining population that they permit to exist beneath them will never have the power to overthrow them, essentially. The end of history." - Why Big Oil Conquered the World

"Gates tips his hand when he equates “issues related to population” with “reproductive health.” The topic is particularly controversial, because “population control” and “reproductive health” have been used for half a century as a euphemism for eugenics, the discredited pseudoscience that holds that certain families are fit to be leaders of society by virtue of their superior genes." - Bill Gates and the Population Control Grid

 

[Heyo]

Dude, it doesn't matter what your incentive or methodology is because overpopulation isn't the problem. Decline in population is. Do some research. Eugenics disguised as technocracy.

"In my estimation, more misery has been created by reformers than by any other force in human history. Show me someone who says, "Something must be done!" and I will show you a head full of vicious intentions that have no other outlet. What we must strive for always! is to find the natural flow and go with it." - The Reverend Mother Taraza, Conversational Record, BG File GSXXMAAT9; Frank Herbert, Heretics of Dune

"The Malthusians are not interested in increasing food production, lifting the poor out of poverty or developing technology to increase our ability to share in the abundant wealth of the world. Instead they wish for the forcible sterilization of the poor, the consignment of billions around the world to grinding poverty and the elimination of vast swathes of the population. They do not wish to reduce the pain and suffering in the world, but to increase it. In short, the overpopulation hysteria is a convenient lie for the Chicken Littles who stand to benefit from the panic they themselves cause.

"For the rest of us, it comes down to a simple question: After 200 years of the sky failing to fall, isn’t it time to stop listening to Chicken Little?" - The Last word on Overpopulation

"Eugenics is basically a movement among the elite to eradicate what they deem the inferior classes, and that’s the inferior social classes, racial classes, ethnic classes. More or less everyone who isn’t up to their standards. And after eradicating those classes, what they aim to do is genetically engineer themselves to such a high level that the remaining population that they permit to exist beneath them will never have the power to overthrow them, essentially. The end of history." - Why Big Oil Conquered the World

"Gates tips his hand when he equates “issues related to population” with “reproductive health.” The topic is particularly controversial, because “population control” and “reproductive health” have been used for half a century as a euphemism for eugenics, the discredited pseudoscience that holds that certain families are fit to be leaders of society by virtue of their superior genes." - Bill Gates and the Population Control Grid

Let me ask you a question: what is your stance on immigration? If more people = better, then I expect you to welcome every immigrant. Am I right?

 

[Heyo]

The oligarchs are the ones telling us not to reproduce. The notion that depopulation is a good thing was very popular and pushed in the society for decades, notably with that silly Population Bomb book that came out 50 or so years ago but has totally failed on it's predictions. So I don't know what you're talking about. I just recommend that young people have at least a couple of kids on average to balance things out and help us out a bit in the future, is all.

You are still ignoring the fact that the combined footprint of all people on Earth is not sustainable. We have to get down to a sustainable number or find a way to feed the existing people without destroying the environment. And we have to start doing that now and not leave that to hope and the next generation.