Something along those lines. Don't get me wrong, what happens in such situations is still abhorrent and there should be some response to the boys' behavior. But I wouldn't go so far as to condemn the more active party just because we feel sorry for the victim.
What would you call it then, if it isn't clearly rape in your eyes?
Far too often I've seen people use a victim's intoxication as a reason to excuse the victim from any sort of responsibility in a sexual encounter and yet the same intoxication means absolutely nothing when it comes to the suspect. The truth is that when two people are intoxicated (regardless of the gender makeup of the couple), sexual encounters can be tricky. Especially when it comes to consent and one's ability to interpret whether or not consent was received.
She was passed out. How could she have any chance of giving consent if she's passed out?
In my opinion is if alcohol is involved (IE both parties are drunk) then I am unwilling to condemn either party as a rapist. Irresponsible? Both are. Could have made better decisions? Both could have. A tragic situation? Certainly. But one person brutally raping another person? That's almost never how it happens when both parties are drunk. It's almost always a situation that's much more sticky and unclear. Even if one of the parties has a stupid and immature reaction after the event.
I think where we part ways is where there's different classifications of rape, that it isn't
really rape unless she's screaming, fighting back, doing what she can to defend herself and repeatedly yelling NO NO NO NO. IOW, it isn't rape unless it's
brutal rape. I see it simply, non-consensual sex is non-consensual sex. We don't re-classify theft if some guy steals another guy's wallet while he's sleeping and it's just laying out, do we? And if alcohol is involved in theft, we don't somehow see a thief much differently, do we?
What's worse is that normally rational and decent people say things along the lines of supporting the taking of a red hot steel bar to the anus of the offenders. Of course this isn't unusual, after a tragedy people respond with an overly emotional response based not on reason but on anger.
They shared their crime over social media repeatedly. They joked about it. Repeatedly. The victim received death threats for pressing charges. It's too bad normally rational and decent people say things like she should be ashamed of pressing charges against such nice boys or send her death threats because she dared to attempt to find justice over what happened to her. [/sarcasm]
I feel that because they were underage, the sentence is fair. I hope this case serves as a starting talking point over what constitutes informed consent. And that utilizing social media to further demean and humiliate the victim repeatedly afterward is to be seen as sociopathic rather than simply silly boyish behavior.
I don't say this because I have no sympathy for the victim. Nor do I blame the victim. However a justice system is most upheld when people are rational and objective in considering all the factors that go into a situation. Emotional responses don't do anything to solve the problem or help the offenders.
I agree. But I come from a position of where her boundaries are clearly crossed by two other parties. She clearly did not give consent. I call that rape.
Worse of all, locking them away in a steel cage for a few years probably isn't going to help either. But as long as we hate the offenders enough we have no damns to give about their rehabilitation. Why? Because they senselessly exploited another human being? I guess that makes it OK to descend to their level, right?
I have strong opinions concerning the use of the profit-driven prison system in our country, and that it is used as more punitive measures than rehabilitative. However, I think incarcerating the perpetrators is the best way to ensure that they will not repeat the same crime again to the same victim or another victim.
I don't have all the facts of the case. Chances are no one who's posted in this thread does either. Thus, I would be unwilling to condemn the boys with such viciousness as others have. Moreover, even if I did have all the facts of the case, having worked in law enforcement and seen just how bad we are at actually rehabilitating people I'd probably be for some kind of sentence that resulted in men who, once they were released, were able to be a positive impact on society.
Ridiculing them and throwing them in a cage does absolutely nothing to solve the problem. In fact, statistically that will make them worse.
You have work in law enforcement. I am a rape survivor and have worked in peer groups with rape survivors. My experience was after I was raped, I didn't report it for fear of backlash, and other women were raped by the same man until one woman had the stones to press charges against him. He was charged with rape and served less than a year before he was back out on the streets. For all I know, he may know where I live and where I work, and that uncertainty prompted me to begin self-defense and martial arts training. I don't want to ridicule him or treat him like an animal, but I also don't want the same thing to happen to other people. I felt horrible learning that's exactly what happened after I failed to report the crime.
I don't wish ill will on rapists, personally, but I am on the side of educating the public to ensure that men and women, boys and girls, understand informed consent as a measure to engage in physical intimacy. I am also on the side of doing what can be done to prevent crime.
One way to prevent crime and/or to prevent the chance of being charged with rape is not to have sex with unconscious people.
