Coloring outside the lines

[Jimmy]

I understand why people believe in evolution because of all the evidence, rightly so. It definitely isn’t lying, but I like to live outside the box. I do think that one doesn’t have to believe everything science has evidence for. I don’t think It makes one mentally ill or delusional. I don’t think it’s really that big of a deal. it’s only life.

If God created our solar system all in one shot then evolution never really happened. It doesn’t make all the evidence less viable, it just shows that God painted a picture of what could’ve been had he chosen that format for existence.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I understand why people believe in evolution because of all the evidence, rightly so. It definitely isn’t lying, but I like to live outside the box. I do think that one doesn’t have to believe everything science has evidence for. I don’t think It makes one mentally ill or delusional. I don’t think it’s really that big of a deal. it’s only life.

If God created our solar system all in one shot then evolution never really happened. It doesn’t make all the evidence less viable, it just shows that God painted a picture of what could’ve been had he chosen that format for existence.

I just don't know how people can jump all the way to an 'answer,' that is by concluding there's a God first, then going backwards to preserve that assessment by trying to fill in the gaps with whatever seems to work.

Dosent sound very outside the box to me.

 

[blü 2]

I understand why people believe in evolution because of all the evidence, rightly so. It definitely isn’t lying, but I like to live outside the box. I do think that one doesn’t have to believe everything science has evidence for. I don’t think It makes one mentally ill or delusional. I don’t think it’s really that big of a deal. it’s only life.

If God created our solar system all in one shot then evolution never really happened. It doesn’t make all the evidence less viable, it just shows that God painted a picture of what could’ve been had he chosen that format for existence.

If you don't care what's true and what's not true, then you're substantially correct.

If however you like your understanding of reality to be accurate, hence your statements about reality to be accurate, then you need science. You need other things as well, but you need science.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I understand why people believe in evolution because of all the evidence, rightly so. It definitely isn’t lying, but I like to live outside the box. I do think that one doesn’t have to believe everything science has evidence for. I don’t think It makes one mentally ill or delusional. I don’t think it’s really that big of a deal. it’s only life.

If God created our solar system all in one shot then evolution never really happened. It doesn’t make all the evidence less viable, it just shows that God painted a picture of what could’ve been had he chosen that format for existence.

Yep. How could willful ignorance possibly prove deleterious to society? It's so much cooler to be casually irresponsible.

 

[AlexanderG]

I understand why people believe in evolution because of all the evidence, rightly so. It definitely isn’t lying, but I like to live outside the box. I do think that one doesn’t have to believe everything science has evidence for. I don’t think It makes one mentally ill or delusional. I don’t think it’s really that big of a deal. it’s only life.

If God created our solar system all in one shot then evolution never really happened. It doesn’t make all the evidence less viable, it just shows that God painted a picture of what could’ve been had he chosen that format for existence.

I mean, you can believe something even though everything we observe in reality contradicts that belief, but it seems like a very dangerous way to live. What other facets of your life will this deficient reasoning seep into? As one extreme, you can believe no cars are coming whenever you cross the street, and never look both ways, but reality tends to do its thing regardless of your wishful thinking.

You are correct. If God created our solar system all in one shot then evolution never really happened. If we're living in a simulation, or the universe self-instantiated five minutes ago will all our false memories of the past intact, or if I'm the only mind in existence and all my perceptions are self-delusions, then evolution never really happened. So, what's your point? Without a single piece of supporting evidence, all of these statements are vapid and warrant no consideration.

In every way we can reliably determine facts about our shared reality, evolution is a fact. If you don't really care about your beliefs corresponding to reality, then I guess we can't force you to change such a personal preference. I just think it's a not a good preference to have.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If you don't care what's true and what's not true, then you're substantially correct.

If however you like your understanding of reality to be accurate, hence your statements about reality to be accurate, then you need science. You need other things as well, but you need science.

Science isn't always right about reality, though. If fact it's probably at least partially wrong most of the time.

 

[Bird123]

I understand why people believe in evolution because of all the evidence, rightly so. It definitely isn’t lying, but I like to live outside the box. I do think that one doesn’t have to believe everything science has evidence for. I don’t think It makes one mentally ill or delusional. I don’t think it’s really that big of a deal. it’s only life.

If God created our solar system all in one shot then evolution never really happened. It doesn’t make all the evidence less viable, it just shows that God painted a picture of what could’ve been had he chosen that format for existence.

How about this: God created the universe in one shot to unfold to what we have today and beyond. It's just like a seed can grow into a giant tree. The real Genius behind it all is that God created the universe to unfold in such a way that mankind would be able to figure it all out in time. Wouldn't evolution fit in with this? God does as well.

If you look at an action of God, God created this world with many layers of knowledge. First it's medicine of the body. Next, DNA was discovered. Now we are finding out there are more layers of knowledge behind DNA.

This is just one example. The layers of knowledge are all around everything waiting to be Discovered.

A Leopard doesn't change it's spots. Poof creation might be a good story for children, however it doesn't represent what actually exists.

Poof? Where are the details?? How is it actually done? Why is it done this way? Do you want beliefs and stories or do you want Truth, Reality, and God?

Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. Unlike accepting beliefs blindly without question, Discover does take Work. On the other hand, the Results are so much better.

Science has a step above religion for two reasons. Science searches for new knowledge and science corrects the errors. As I see it, religion does neither.

By studying the universe, one is studying the actions of God simply because God created the universe.

Science is walking straight toward God. Science will Discover God long before religion ever will unless religion changes their ways. If religion fails to change, at some point in the future, religion will become obsolete simply because they deal in beliefs instead of Facts.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Jimmy]

How about this: God created the universe in one shot to unfold to what we have today and beyond. It's just like a seed can grow into a giant tree. The real Genius behind it all is that God created the universe to unfold in such a way that mankind would be able to figure it all out in time. Wouldn't evolution fit in with this? God does as well.

If you look at an action of God, God created this world with many layers of knowledge. First it's medicine of the body. Next, DNA was discovered. Now we are finding out there are more layers of knowledge behind DNA.

This is just one example. The layers of knowledge are all around everything waiting to be Discovered.

A Leopard doesn't change it's spots. Poof creation might be a good story for children, however it doesn't represent what actually exists.

Poof? Where are the details?? How is it actually done? Why is it done this way? Do you want beliefs and stories or do you want Truth, Reality, and God?

Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. Unlike accepting beliefs blindly without question, Discover does take Work. On the other hand, the Results are so much better.

Science has a step above religion for two reasons. Science searches for new knowledge and science corrects the errors. As I see it, religion does neither.

By studying the universe, one is studying the actions of God simply because God created the universe.

Science is walking straight toward God. Science will Discover God long before religion ever will unless religion changes their ways. If religion fails to change, at some point in the future, religion will become obsolete simply because they deal in beliefs instead of Facts.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I don’t think such an awesome event would just consist of an empty void. Seems weak and as the internet would say, an EPIC FAIL, pun intended.

 

[blü 2]

Science isn't always right about reality, though. If fact it's probably at least partially wrong most of the time.

But science is honest about what it knows it doesn't know.

Scientific method works by empiricism and induction. Hence its conclusions are never final or absolute. They are however the best informed, most accurate, and most impartial available at any particular time.

No other system of thought has come anywhere near scientific method in exploring, describing and seeking to explain reality.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yep. How could willful ignorance possibly prove deleterious to society? It's so much cooler to be casually irresponsible.

I'm just irresponsible curious myself.

 

[Wildswanderer]

But science is honest about what it knows it doesn't know.

Scientific method works by empiricism and induction. Hence its conclusions are never final or absolute. They are however the best informed, most accurate, and most impartial available at any particular time.

No other system of thought has come anywhere near scientific method in exploring, describing and seeking to explain reality.

That would depend on what reality is. Most of the people on earth believe God is real for example, so you could say religion is the number one way we explain reality.

 

[blü 2]

That would depend on what reality is. Most of the people on earth believe God is real for example, so you could say religion is the number one way we explain reality.

Objective reality is the world external to the self, the one we know about through our senses.

As for God being real, there isn't even a definition of God appropriate for a real entity, such that if we found a real suspect, we could determine whether it was God or not. The only way God is known to exist is as a concept / thing imagined in an individual brain, and the world behaves exactly as if that's the case.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Objective reality is the world external to the self, the one we know about through our senses.

As for God being real, there isn't even a definition of God appropriate for a real entity, such that if we found a real suspect, we could determine whether it was God or not. The only way God is known to exist is as a concept / thing imagined in an individual brain, and the world behaves exactly as if that's the case.

That's all opinion. Why would you think we could not know if God is real? And why should I believe that what I touch with my senses is real? Perhaps I'm just a thought in God's mind and everything I feel is just an illusion. What makes me trust my physical senses any more than my spiritual senses?

 

[blü 2]

That's all opinion. Why would you think we could not know if God is real?

Because if God is real you can show [him] to me. But if God is conceptual / imaginary and nothing more, then you can't ─ you can only describe an idea in your head or a stained glass window you saw somewhere.

And why should I believe that what I touch with my senses is real?

Since you very plainly believe exactly that, just as you think your computer and the net and RF and I am real, why are you asking me that question?

But it may help you to consider that you're a human and you've evolved with a set of reflexes and instincts that are all about your survival, so it may be fair to wonder whether those of your earlier tribesmen who didn't correctly perceive the aspects of reality relevant to their own survival were more prone not to live long enough to breed.

Perhaps I'm just a thought in God's mind and everything I feel is just an illusion.

No evidence suggests that's the case. Until there is, I suggest you don't worry about it. Nor about whether there's a real Mickey Mouse living at Disney Studios nor winged pigs on a planet orbiting a distant star, nor a real Sherlock Holmes whose great-grandson works for a secret branch of government nor a magic wishing well at a secret location in the Appalachians nor ...

What makes me trust my physical senses any more than my spiritual senses?

Common sense and the desirel to deal with the real world, would be my guess.

 

[ratiocinator]

Most of the people on earth believe God is real for example, so you could say religion is the number one way we explain reality.

Except that the word 'God' means different things to different people. Whichever god(s) you believe in, most people think you are wrong.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Because if God is real you can show [him] to me. But if God is conceptual / imaginary and nothing more, then you can't ─ you can only describe an idea in your head or a stained glass window you saw somewhere.

There's all kinds of things I can't show you, that I believe are real, and I assume you do too. Air, radio waves, the wi- fi you may be currently using, for example. I can show you God's handiwork, but if you prefer to see it as a result of blind random chance, that's your choice, as ridiculous it seems to me.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Since you very plainly believe exactly that, just as you think your computer and the net and RF and I am real, why are you asking me that question?

Do I? Could be that I am just a simulation inside of a simulation.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Common sense and the desirel to deal with the real world, would be my guess.

I'll take spiritual sense over that version of " common sense", then.
My version of common Sense tells me that if I see a world that appears to be designed it probably is... If I see beauty and order and purpose, it's probably not the result of random causation.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Except that the word 'God' means different things to different people. Whichever god(s) you believe in, most people think you are wrong.

But we all believe in a Creator God. The 7% of the world that doesn't are the ones lacking in common sense in my opinion.

 

[blü 2]

There's all kinds of things I can't show you, that I believe are real, and I assume you do too. Air, radio waves, the wi- fi you may be currently using, for example.

Show you air? Just blow on your coffee, or stand in the winter wind at the bus stop. Or watch smoke. Air is physical. Radio waves? Tney make your radio work, and you can determine their qualities if you have the right instruments. Same with wi-fi. All these things are found in nature.

Unlike God, who's only found as a concept / thing imagined in individual brains,

I can show you God's handiwork

If that were true, science would have noticed by now, don't you think?

but if you prefer to see it as a result of blind random chance, that's your choice, as ridiculous it seems to me.

But I were to say, God is an idea you've invented to explain what you can't otherwise presently explain, you'd be hard put to show I was wrong, no?

As I said, there isn't even the concept of a real God, such that if we found a real suspect we could determine whether it was God or not.

There isn't even a clear concept of "godness", the real quality a real God would have and a real superscientist who could create universes, raise the dead, travel in time &c, would lack.