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Come back My people

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Considering how the Bible was preserved I heavily doubt that one should be worried about how the Qur'an gets its stories straight by comparing it to a book beyond corrupt.
The Qur'an and Tanakh are far more well preserved
 
He was not talking about the previous Revelations. Just read the verses above.
God was talking about the verses send to Muhammad because people asked him miracles or were insulting the muslims.

{VI.115. And the word of your Lord has been accomplished truly and justly; there is none who can change His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.}

Agreed. But if Allah is the God of the Christians and Jews, the word of their Lord cannot be changed either.

He's not talking about the Bible. First, Muhammad never recited verses of the Bible to muslims of that time. Plus He said " what has been revealed TO YOU".


{XVIII.27. And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord; there is none who can alter His words; and you shall not find any refuge besides Him.}

Yes, it is about the Qur'an. No one can alter the words of the Qur'an. But if Allah's words can be changed in the Jews Book, the Qur'an would say that. And surely Allah would not tell us to read and abide by our Book in its entirety if it were corrupted.










 

Pastek

Sunni muslim

Yes, it is about the Qur'an. No one can alter the words of the Qur'an. But if Allah's words can be changed in the Jews Book, the Qur'an would say that. And surely Allah would not tell us to read and abide by our Book in its entirety if it were corrupted.


The Qu'ran said it : 2.79

And I quoted the Bible too : 8.8 Jeremiah

Also, i'm not a specialist in the Bible but some who know better the Bible, also said it was alterated.
Maybe you can take a look and see if it's logical or not :

[youtube]P0zWbL8Uqfw[/youtube]
MUST WATCH. How the bible got changed. Misquoting Jesus Speech at Stanford by Bart Ehrman. - YouTube
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sterling Archer said:
Considering how the Bible was preserved I heavily doubt that one should be worried about how the Qur'an gets its stories straight by comparing it to a book beyond corrupt.
The Qur'an and Tanakh are far more well preserved
Sterling Archer, the problem here is that absolutely no flaws are acknowledged by anyone. I'd rather have a non holy book and a holy heart.
 

jtartar

Well-Known Member
In the Qur'an, Allah urged Christians and Jews to read their Book in its entirety. Yet, a side by side study revealed teachings in Allah's Reminder of life changing importance, as well as, hundreds of altered details that are contrary to all of God's previous writings, which Christians and Jews hold so dear.

Here are a few examples. Although, in the interest of time and space, listed will only be a portion of the Scriptures, minus the text elaborating on them, that are included in the Kindle eBook I have authored called, Come back My people. The first 5 chapters of which, may be previewed for free.

X.37. And this Qur'an is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds.

John 14.30. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

2Corinthians 4.3. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.4.

Revelation 17.14. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
#​

IV.76. Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Devil. Fight therefore against the friends of the Devil; surely the strategy of the Devil is weak.

I Peter 5.8. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour-.

Ephesians 6.12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
#​

XXIX.14. And certainly We sent {Noah} to his people, so he remained among them a thousand years save fifty years. And the deluge overtook them, while they were unjust.

Genesis 9.28. And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. All the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.29.
#​

XXIX.15. So we delivered him and the inmates of the ark, and made it a sign to the nations.15.

{Sign-token/bow-rainbow}

Genesis 9.12. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.15.

If there is an interest, I will post more. But then again, I probably will do so no matter what; with the hope of getting the differences between the Qur'an and the Bible to as many people as possible.

By the way, there are also many verses in the Qur'an describing Allah's involvement with and protection of the Book given to Christians and Jews. Putting an end to the myth that we changed God's Word to suit our own needs. Any specific requests, please also post in a PM to be sure I do not miss them.

faithglendale,
In my opinion the Koran seems to be written by a child, and nothing compared with the highminded word of the only True God, Jehovah, The creator of heaven and earth and all that is in them, and the giver of life to all living things, Isa 45:18, Ps 36:9, Acts 17:24-31.
Jehovah's word, The Bible is almost 2,000 years older than the Koran, and God knew there would be other writings claiming to be inspired, so He gave a very important warning, I believe, at Gal 1:8,9. I believe that these scriptures preclude the need for any other supposed inspired writings.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Sterling Archer, the problem here is that absolutely no flaws are acknowledged by anyone. I'd rather have a non holy book and a holy heart.

Starts rather early but look in Genesis and take note of how man or beast came first.
Then go through the entire Gospels and notice how Jesus cannot declare if he is lesser than the father or equal. The whole Gospels are a contradiction unto themselves.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sterling Archer said:
Starts rather early but look in Genesis and take note of how man or beast came first.
Then go through the entire Gospels and notice how Jesus cannot declare if he is lesser than the father or equal. The whole Gospels are a contradiction unto themselves.
I appreciate that you care enough about me to share this with me, but you might not understand what the gospels are saying. It isn't your chosen area of expertise. You simply aren't enough to know everything, to master all things. You're pretty sharp, but you're only one person. The NT is my area, but the Quran isn't and as for the Tanach I'm only a little acquainted with those beautiful books.

There are apparent contradictions in the NT, but these are purposeful, not corruptions. As I mentioned to glendale, how can anyone be both the root and the offspring of David in Revelation 22:16 ? How is such an obvious contradiction possible and why would the writer be stupid enough to pen it? Rhetorically, they weren't and it is there for a reason. The NT is not meant to be read in the same way as a Quran. The NT recognizes that you and I are limited by our language and our minds. You must allow the seeming contradictions to speak to you instead of casting them aside. Accept them both momentarily and find the real message which cannot be spoken.

Is a mountain lying when it 'Touches' the sky? No, but your perception is your problem which makes it seem so. A mountain, however, speaks to us truth by this apparent contradiction. Is the moon lying when it rests upon the horizon? Does the sun teach idolatry? Neither is the NT lying when it counter-positions opposing or distinct images.
 
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Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I appreciate that you care enough about me to share this with me, but you might not understand what the gospels are saying. It isn't your chosen area of expertise. You simply aren't enough to know everything, to master all things. You're pretty sharp, but you're only one person. The NT is my area, but the Quran isn't and as for the Tanach I'm only a little acquainted with those beautiful books.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt despite the fact I own 5 Bible.

There are apparent contradictions in the NT, but these are purposeful, not corruptions. As I mentioned to glendale, how can anyone be both the root and the offspring of David in Revelation 22:16 ? How is such an obvious contradiction possible and why would the writer be stupid enough to pen it? Rhetorically, they weren't and it is there for a reason. The NT is not meant to be read in the same way as a Quran. The NT recognizes that you and I are limited by our language and our minds. You must allow the seeming contradictions to speak to you instead of casting them aside. Accept them both momentarily and find the real message which cannot be spoken.

Sounds more like a person unable to decide. The true contradictions in the NT come from the Pauline Epistles which are riddled with them.
But 1 Corinthians 14:33 comes to mind for me as it states....
"For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints."

Is a mountain lying when it 'Touches' the sky? No, but your perception is your problem which makes it seem so. A mountain, however, speaks to us truth by this apparent contradiction. Is the moon lying when it rests upon the horizon? Does the sun teach idolatry? Neither is the NT lying when it counter-positions opposing or distinct images.

Useless poetry is all I can say. I have concocted better.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sterling Archer said:
I will give you the benefit of the doubt despite the fact I own 5 Bible.
Yes, you own 5; but you didn't write them.

Sounds more like a person unable to decide. The true contradictions in the NT come from the Pauline Epistles which are riddled with them.
But 1 Corinthians 14:33 comes to mind for me as it states....
"For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints."
'Riddled with contradictions' yet people value them. There is a reason for that. Why do people value abstract art? Its ugly and makes no sense at first, yet people pay money for it.

Useless poetry is all I can say. I have concocted better.
Are you suggesting that poetry is useless? I'm not saying my poetry is good; but I do think that you are overlooking the real purpose of so many 'Contradictions' that you perceive in the NT. As you say, it is 'Riddled' with contradictions, in other words full, full of contradictions. Is John the Baptist the same as Elijah or isn't he? Is Jesus a man or is he light? He cannot both, but in the NT he is. He was 'Crucified before the foundation of the world.' That is obviously impossible since he was crucified after the creation of the world, so that isn't what the writer is trying to say to you. Its not an accidental contradiction, obviously.
 
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Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Yes, you own 5; but you didn't write them.

:biglaugh: you did not write them either. Are you claiming divine prophecy perhaps?

'Riddled with contradictions' yet people value them. There is a reason for that. Why do people value abstract art? Its ugly and makes no sense at first, yet people pay money for it.

I cherish many mythological books and it does not make a difference. Art in any form has a story. No matter how convoluted it is it has a story.
Also primary reason the Bible is valued is due to religious upbringing and and then there is the fact that it was forced upon Europe during its spread. Important detail I should mention.

Are you suggesting that poetry is useless? I'm not saying my poetry is good; but I do think that you are overlooking the real purpose of so many 'Contradictions' that you perceive in the NT. As you say, it is 'Riddled' with contradictions, in other words full, full of contradictions. Is John the Baptist the same as Elijah or isn't he? Is Jesus a man or is he light? He cannot both, but in the NT he is. He was 'Crucified before the foundation of the world.' That is obviously impossible since he was crucified after the creation of the world, so that isn't what the writer is trying to say to you. Its not an accidental contradiction, obviously.

Poetry is not useless. Your poetry is useless int he fact that is does not portray a message. It does not benefit an argument to use poetry hence I do not do it.
All contradictions in text are perceived as error according to most people knowledgeable about literature. So by mass vote you are saying the Bible is filled with errors despite how you ignore a simple verse. Good is a contradiction since he says he is not an author of confusion yet he goes back on his words.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sterling Archer said:
Are you claiming divine prophecy perhaps?
You wish! Nothing I said implied that. You said you owned 5 Bibles like the number was significant. Are you claiming to have mastered the Pentateuch?
I cherish many mythological books and it does not make a difference. Art in any form has a story. No matter how convoluted it is it has a story.
Also primary reason the Bible is valued is due to religious upbringing and and then there is the fact that it was forced upon Europe during its spread. Important detail I should mention.
I suppose that's only fair since the thread opener claimed you needed to 'Return' to Christianity. More accurately the Bible was largely unknown in Europe during the spread of Christianity. At the time it was not available in the language of the Frankish and Germanic peoples there. Additionally Christian missionaries went into Europe peacefully long before the Roman occupiers. History is complicated, and politicians spoil even the best policies.
All contradictions in text are perceived as error according to most people knowledgeable about literature.
Oh, so you think words can accurately express anything, despite the limitations of human beings. That is ridiculous. You cannot approach Bible texts like they are computer programs. You aren't a JW, so please stop acting like one! The Bible is subtle as a serpent if innocent as a dove. You cannot read it like instructions for how to use a toothbrush.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
You wish! Nothing I said implied that. You said you owned 5 Bibles like the number was significant. Are you claiming to have mastered the Pentateuch?

No I claimed to have actually read them and understood them, you claimed to master them
You simply aren't enough to know everything, to master all things. You're pretty sharp, but you're only one person. The NT is my area,
:D try finding the word master in my statements.

I suppose that's only fair since the thread opener claimed you needed to 'Return' to Christianity. More accurately the Bible was largely unknown in Europe during the spread of Christianity. At the time it was not available in the language of the Frankish and Germanic peoples there. Additionally Christian missionaries went into Europe peacefully long before the Roman occupiers. History is complicated, and politicians spoil even the best policies.

Does not change anything. You appeared to imply that somehow the Bible was cherished for truth.

Oh, so you think words can accurately express anything, despite the limitations of human beings. That is ridiculous. You cannot approach Bible texts like they are computer programs. You aren't a JW, so please stop acting like one! The Bible is subtle as a serpent if innocent as a dove. You cannot read it like instructions for how to use a toothbrush.

Words cannot describe God. No book can so why are you acting as if the Bible is somehow perfect in this :D. You just said it yourself that words cannot express anything. :D You are contradicting yourself or is this somehow "intentional".
The Bible is supposedly a way to reach god and contains his perfect word yet you claim it is not even understandable to the most extent. God seems rather contradictory if this is how you view him.
I am not acting like a JW (Jehovah's Witness I assume) as I am not even one nor have I had any major dialogue with them.
How can the Bible instruct me to do anything such as save me from hell if it is not understandable or clear?
I have read the Qur'an and I can tell you that it is a book that is assuredly mysterious.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
faithglendale,
In my opinion the Koran seems to be written by a child, and nothing compared with the highminded word of the only True God, Jehovah, The creator of heaven and earth and all that is in them, and the giver of life to all living things, Isa 45:18, Ps 36:9, Acts 17:24-31.
Jehovah's word, The Bible is almost 2,000 years older than the Koran, and God knew there would be other writings claiming to be inspired, so He gave a very important warning, I believe, at Gal 1:8,9. I believe that these scriptures preclude the need for any other supposed inspired writings.

It was recited not written. The Qur'an cannot be understood in English so you have never even read the Qur'an. I myself have only been able to under the entirety of the first 18 surah.
Please tell me the translation you read and I can easily spot out your flaws in logic.
The Bible has be rewritten to suite the needs of people and textual accuracy is not as emphasized as the Qur'an. The Qur'an cannot even be taken out of its own language out of fear of mistranslation which is why no Muslim has done such.
You cannot even recite your Bible in its original language, I on the other hand can easily recite to you any verse int he first 18 surah from heart... in its original Arabic. I do not claim to be a scholar but I have invested enough time to understanding it.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
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Premium Member
Sterling Archer said:
you claimed to master them
Show me where. I said I'd rather have a holy heart, but I didn't claim to be holy.

Sterling Archer said:
:D try finding the word master in my statements.
Sterling Archer said:
...a book beyond corrupt...
That is where you claimed it. I'm just trying to tell you that not everybody reads the NT like a musical sheet, and it wasn't written to be read that way.

Words cannot describe God. No book can so why are you acting as if the Bible is somehow perfect in this :D. You just said it yourself that words cannot express anything. :D You are contradicting yourself or is this somehow "intentional".
I've not suggested the Bible was perfectly worded. I'm suggesting that what you are calling numerous 'Contradictions' in the NT are actually evidence that you don't know how to read the NT. I argue 1. the large number of them ought to clue you in that you aren't reading it right. 2. That the NT is not as 'Corrupt' as you seem to think, but I do not argue it to be flawless.

You, on the other hand, use amateur arguments about the NT to claim it is profoundly corrupt through & through and you even misunderstand I Corinthians 14:33. Why? Simply because you are a pocket Quran man and don't care much about the NT. That is not meant as an insult. Its why you don't know how to read it -- because you don't care about it that much. You are like a pianist working as a mechanic on the side. I'm sure you play piano very well, but your observation that greasy engines are useless just isn't based in reality. You don't like the NT, and I get that. Good for you! You don't know how to read it however. :D Seriously I'm not kidding. :D You've spent a lot of time learning other very important things, so you haven't had time to invest in the NT.

I Corinthians 14:33
: Not that I blame you, Sterling Archer, because I'm sure someone else used that awfully confused meaning for that verse against you in an argument; but you should not have been fooled. You've totally missed the point of what the writer was talking about. If you truly own 5 copies in different translations than you know that the above verse is about orderly assemblies. (mechanical pun intended) The first thing you have to know about the NT is that it was not written by JW's. The second thing is that it wasn't written by Muslims. The third thing is you need to admit that you really don't care that much about it, so you aren't going to learn much about it.
 
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Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Show me where. I said I'd rather have a holy heart, but I didn't claim to be holy.

That is where you claimed it. I'm just trying to tell you that not everybody reads the NT like a musical sheet, and it wasn't written to be read that way.

I've not suggested the Bible was perfectly worded. I'm suggesting that what you are calling numerous 'Contradictions' in the NT are actually evidence that you don't know how to read the NT. I argue 1. the large number of them ought to clue you in that you aren't reading it right. 2. That the NT is not as 'Corrupt' as you seem to think, but I do not argue it to be flawless.

You, on the other hand, use amateur arguments about the NT to claim it is profoundly corrupt through & through and you even misunderstand I Corinthians 14:33. Why? Simply because you are a pocket Quran man and don't care much about the NT. That is not meant as an insult. Its why you don't know how to read it -- because you don't care about it that much. You are like a pianist working as a mechanic on the side. I'm sure you play piano very well, but your observation that greasy engines are useless just isn't based in reality. You don't like the NT, and I get that. Good for you! You don't know how to read it however. :D Seriously I'm not kidding. :D You've spent a lot of time learning other very important things, so you haven't had time to invest in the NT.

I Corinthians 14:33
: Not that I blame you, Sterling Archer, because I'm sure someone else used that awfully confused meaning for that verse against you in an argument; but you should not have been fooled. You've totally missed the point of what the writer was talking about. If you truly own 5 copies in different translations than you know that the above verse is about orderly assemblies. (mechanical pun intended) The first thing you have to know about the NT is that it was not written by JW's. The second thing is that it wasn't written by Muslims. The third thing is you need to admit that you really don't care that much about it, so you aren't going to learn much about it.

I have been a Christian for most of my life, I can assure you I know how to read the NT. :facepalm: Why is it so hard for a Christian to believe that not everyone finds the Bible as perfect? If i do not find it perfect and flawless somehow I know nothing about it.
Also I have never claimed that the NT was written by JW's, I am wonder why you are making up stories.
I know it was not written by Muslims
I have "stopped" caring much about it but it does not change the fact I once did.
Also what is a "pocket Qur'an man"? I am lost on that statement.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sterling Archer said:
Also what is a "pocket Qur'an man"? I am lost on that statement.
Your 'Religion' says you are Muslim. Muslims believe in the Quran, so you are in the Quran's 'Pocket'. I was suggesting that as a Muslim you were not really that interested in the writings of the NT. Its not a very wild guess I think.
I have been a Christian for most of my life, I can assure you I know how to read the NT.
Whatever you say, Muslim person who misinterpreted I Corinthians 14:33.
Why is it so hard for a Christian to believe that not everyone finds the Bible as perfect?
Its part of the antichrist spirit mentioned by the NT writer, John; and its a kind of pride. It was anticipated that many Christians would be deceived in this way. You're right about many Christians. Lots of Christians cannot imagine that God would allow us to be wrong about anything or have anything but the latest and most up to date information. Part of the reason its so pointed right now is that USA culture was strongly affected by WWII. We in the USA won a war against 'Evil'. Its strange and hard to believe, but our enemies literally believed in 'Evil'. This messed with our heads a little when we won the war. I mean, who actually says "I love evil, and I want to conquer the world!" ? Well, our enemy did. You could not ask for a more evil enemy or an enemy that would make you feel more like a hero. I mean, they literally went after the weak and vulnerable in order to exterminate them! You couldn't ask for a more evil enemy. Before WWII we were a bit more pragmatic about war. Wars were fought over territory etc. ; but after WWII war has only been about Good vs. Evil. This has fed into some of the antichrist elements already at work here and made them much worse. We won the war, but we lost big time in the domestics.

Seriously, its weird.
 
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Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Your 'Religion' says you are Muslim. Muslims believe in the Quran, so you are in the Quran's 'Pocket'. I was suggesting that as a Muslim you were not really that interested in the writings of the NT. Its not a very wild guess I think.
Oh me and you have a very big misunderstanding here :D. I apologize for being so rude but I had no idea you were judging me from my religious affiliation. I know it is confusing but it says Rabu'baw Muslim which means Deist Muslim.

I can assure you that I am not basing my views of the NT off of Islam whatsoever. My views about the Bible are not clouded by religion.

Whatever you say, Muslim person who misinterpreted I Corinthians 14:33.
Oh I can assure you I did not misinterpret a verse I know all to well.

Its part of the antichrist spirit mentioned by the NT writer, John; and its a kind of pride. It was anticipated that many Christians would be deceived in this way.

I am already familiar with these things. My family is Christian and I know enough about this.

You're right about many Christians. Lots of Christians cannot imagine that God would allow us to be wrong about anything or have anything but the latest and most up to date information. Part of the reason its so pointed right now is that USA culture was strongly affected by WWII. We in the USA won a war against 'Evil'. Its strange and hard to believe, but our enemies literally believed in 'Evil'. This messed with our heads a little when we won the war. I mean, who actually says "I love evil, and I want to conquer the world!" ? Well, our enemy did. You could not ask for a more evil enemy or an enemy that would make you feel more like a hero. I mean, they literally went after the weak and vulnerable in order to exterminate them! You couldn't ask for a more evil enemy. Before WWII we were a bit more pragmatic about war. Wars were fought over territory etc. ; but after WWII war has only been about Good vs. Evil. This has fed into some of the antichrist elements already at work here and made them much worse. We won the war, but we lost big time in the domestics.

Seriously, its weird.

WWII affected all countries and all political outlooks to this very day. NATO was created as a result of it. Foreign politics and current affairs across the globe peak from the aftermath of all of this
 

8.8 : “‘How can you say, “We are wise,for we have the law of the Lord,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
(Jeremiah)

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]This is a bad translation. KJV:
Jeremiah 8.7. -But my people know not the judgment of the Lord. How do you say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.8.

9. The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the Lord; and what wisdom is in them? 11: For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Vain: Hebrew word sheqer {sheQer}; an untruth; by implying a sham; without a cause, deceit, falsehood, feignedely, liar, lie, lying, vain (thing).
[/FONT]
[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif] Sham: feign/feignedely-to give a false appearance of. Primitive root of sheqer is shaqar: to cheat, be untrue, (usually in words), fail, deal falsely, lie.

Copying the law was the Scribes first duty. But because of this they were seen as experts in the Law and were given the honor of also being interpreters, teachers, and administrators of the Law of Moses. In the verse above, it is the wisdom of the Scribes that is in question.

The method they used to copy the Law required accuracy and very hard work but it did not make them wise. For they were not copying verse for verse or even word for word. But letter by letter in columns, knowing the exact count each one needed to be.

Interpreting and teaching God's word does require wisdom. But this honor was given to them by man and not by God. This verse said they rejected the word of the Lord. So the work they proceeded to do with their pens was in vain, a falsehood, a lie, and had the appearance of wisdom. They taught falsely. They taught peace when there was not going to be peace. Why? Because those who spoke the truth about Israel's sins and punishments from God, were killed.

Though not all scribes worried about death, they feared God more. Ezra was a scribe sent by God, and as proof of their other duties:
Ezra. 7.6. This Ezra came up from Babylon; and he was a skilled scribe in the Law of Moses-. 10: For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the Law of the Lord, and to do it, and to teach statutes and ordinances in Israel.
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More than 40 years after Jeremiah 8:
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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]Daniel 9.11. Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against Him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]And about two hundred years later:
Nehemiah 8.13. Now on the second day the heads of the fathers' houses of all the people, with the priests and Levites, were gathered to Ezra the scribe, in order to understand the words of the Law.


The Law of Moses is mentioned and quotes taken from, throughout Scripture. As words from our Lord that still exist. Jesus and the prophets would not have done so if the scribes had altered them.

Jeremiah 26.4. And you shall say unto them, Thus saith the Lord; If ye will not listen to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you, To listen to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I sent unto you-; Then will I make this house like Shiloh, and will make this city a curse to all the nations of the earth.6.

Malachi 4.4. Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]How could God expect the children of Israel to listen, remember or walk in His law, if it did not exist? But not only that, the Qur'an told us to follow our Book as well.
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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]III.93. All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel had forbidden to himself, before the Torah was revealed. Say: Bring then the Torah and read it, if you are truthful.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]V.66. And if they had kept up the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet; there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and as for most of them, evil is that which they do.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]V.68. Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Torah and the Gospel-.[/FONT]

[FONT=Bitstream Vera Sans, sans-serif]It would be cruel and unusual punishment to lay down more than 600 laws in the Hebrew Bible and expect obedience from all of Abraham's descendants if God was not going to protect His word.
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It's about the Scriptures not the Qu'ran, read the verses above :

II.78. And there are among them illiterates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture. Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah so that they take a small price-.

I agree. i quoted this verse for the same reason as the others, further proof that Allah did not accuse them of altering the Book itself.

It states they did not know the Scriptures. All they did was lie and guess about what the Scriptures were saying because they did not understand them due to their illiteracy. Which means, the Book had to already exist in order for them not to understand it. So the books they wrote came after the Torah and Gospels were already in circulation.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
II.78. And there are among them illiterates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture. Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah so that they take a small price-.

I agree. i quoted this verse for the same reason as the others, further proof that Allah did not accuse them of altering the Book itself.

It states they did not know the Scriptures. All they did was lie and guess about what the Scriptures were saying because they did not understand them due to their illiteracy. Which means, the Book had to already exist in order for them not to understand it. So the books they wrote came after the Torah and Gospels were already in circulation.

Some Arabic discourse will help you maybe. But you have quoted an entire ayat wrong because you left out the ayat that comes before and after it...

77 "But do they not know that Allah knows what they conceal and what they declare?"

79 "So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn."

You essentially took an ayat out of context and removed the other 2 which would invalidate your claim. Also I memorized Surat al-Baqara by memory :yes: in its original Arabic. It was hard but I knew it would pay off.

The Qur'an is stating the different types of disbelievers of the original Bible. Tose who conceal the truth, those who are ignorant of it and those who rewrite(corrupt) the truth.
 
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