Common in Religions

[RestlessSoul]

Infinity is a mathematical concept. It's not a thing. It's not an object. It's not a number. It's the concept of an unbounded set, and I understand it just fine. Math is really, really cool. But it is not mystical.

This is not difficult. There are differently sized infinite sets of numbers. The set of integers is infinite. The set of real numbers is infinite. The set of real numbers is a larger infinite set than the set of integers.

But that is irrelevant. The fact still remains that reality is that which exists. Not that which you can comprehend.

If reality is that which exists independently of the mind, how do you apprehend, understand or interact with it?

 

[ppp]

If reality is that which exists independently of the mind, how do you apprehend, understand or interact with it?

Can you explain your reasoning? If I am part of reality, how cani help but interact with it? You are literally asking how can one component of reality interact with another component of reality. That question makes no sense to me.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Can you explain your reasoning? If I am part of reality, how cani help but interact with it? You are literally asking how can one component of reality interact with another component of reality. That question makes no sense to me.

All that you know, all that you experience, all that you understand of reality occurs in your mind, does it not? Your reality is created by your mind, and any reality that exists independently of your mind is by definition, beyond your reach.

Here’s something to think about;

“Reality” is constructed by your brain. Here’s what that means, and why it matters.

 

[ppp]

All that you know, all that you experience, all that you understand of reality occurs in your mind, does it not? Your reality is created by your mind, and any reality that exists independently of your mind is by definition, beyond your reach.

Here’s something to think about;

“Reality” is constructed by your brain. Here’s what that means, and why it matters.

I explored that ground thoroughly a long time ago. You're just presenting the problem of hard solipsism. We know that we cannot be assured that the reality that we're presented with is the reality that exists. So what?

Do you accept that other people exist? If so, then none of that matters. If not, then there is no point in conversing with you.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I explored that ground thoroughly a long time ago. You're just presenting the problem of hard solipsism. We know that we cannot be assured that the reality that we're presented with is the reality that exists. So what?

Do you accept that other people exist? If so, then none of that matters. If not, then there is no point in conversing with you.

Yeah read that article in nine minutes? Or you already know everything? In that case you're right, there's nothing we have to say to each other.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If reality is that which exists independently of the mind, how do you apprehend, understand or interact with it?

What is mind - brain? That too is none other than reality ('what exists'). Our brain/body is not independent of the reality.
The chasm that you think between the two, does not exist.
It is with mind, thinking, analyzing what you know that you can apprehend, understand it.
It is not something with which we interact. We are it. 'We act' means 'Brahman acts'.
We are 'what exists'. We are none other than Brahman, like everything else also is.

Mandukya Upanishad said: "Sarvam khalu idam Brahma" (All things here are Brahman), "Ayamatma Brahman" (This self is Brahman), Chhandogya Upaishad said: "Tat twam asi" (That is what you are), Brihadaranyaka Upanishad said: "Aham Brahmasmi" (I am Brahman), Ishavasya Upanishad said "So Aham" (I am that very entity).

 

[Echogem222]

Infinity is a mathematical concept. It's not a thing. It's not an object. It's not a number. It's the concept of an unbounded set, and I understand it just fine. Math is really, really cool. But it is not mystical.

That's why I'm not talking about infinity like you seem to think.

This is not difficult. There are differently sized infinite sets of numbers. The set of integers is infinite. The set of real numbers is infinite. The set of real numbers is a larger infinite set than the set of integers.

But that is irrelevant. The fact still remains that reality is that which exists. Not that which you can comprehend.

When I say greater than infinity, I'm not talking about that, I'm saying that greater than infinity does not go on forever, that greater than infinity is not infinity AT ALL. So, there is no greater than what is greater than infinity, because that would imply a greater than that, and a greater than that, etc. But that's infinity, not greater than infinity.

 

[ppp]

Yeah read that article in nine minutes? Or you already know everything? In that case you're right, there's nothing we have to say to each other.

I don't know why you are offended. That is a PopSci article with the low information density that one would expect. I am not a polymath like some on this forum, but I used to reading and researching through scientific and technical journals.

Also, it didn't contain new substance. Just new examples.

 

[ppp]

That's why I'm not talking about infinity like you seem to think.

So, you asked me a question using your own idiosyncratic definitions, but didn't bother to provide me with your personal definitions? You are intentionally trying to be misunderstood, so that you can then complain that I didn't use your definition. Faugh!

When I say greater than infinity, I'm not talking about that, I'm saying that greater than infinity does not go on forever, that greater than infinity is not infinity AT ALL.

Define the word greater. Define the word infinity. No examples. Definitions.

 

[Echogem222]

So, you asked me a question using your own idiosyncratic definitions, but didn't bother to provide me with your personal definitions? You are intentionally trying to be misunderstood, so that you can then complain that I didn't use your definition. Faugh!

That was not my intention at all, and I'm not sure what you're even basing this off of. You weren't the person I was originally speaking to, yet you replied to me acting as though you read all of my previous responses, that you knew what I was talking about, so I assumed you understood enough, my mistake.

Define the word greater. Define the word infinity. No examples. Definitions.

"More than" is what greater means. So greater than infinity means greater than the concept of infinity, (infinity is something that goes on forever). In other words, greater than infinity does not go on forever, but longer than forever. There is no greater than what is greater than infinity, because that would imply that infinity is greater than what is greater than infinity, but that's a logical contradiction, so it can't be true. You can't understand what greater than infinity means, other than understanding it's greater than infinity, because it would take you longer than forever to understand it, something we are just not capable of doing.

Greater than infinity is not something within mathematics.

 

[ppp]

yet you replied to me acting as though you read all of my previous responses,

I don't think I acted in any such way. My reply was, What does "exists outside of reality" mean? I Still don't have an answer to that.

You can't understand what greater than infinity means, other than understanding it's greater than infinity, because it would take you longer than forever to understand it, something we are just not capable of doing.

I understand what infinity means, yet it only took me a few hours to do so. Therefore longer than infinity should not take more than a few days.

 

[Echogem222]

I don't think I acted in any such way. My reply was, What does "exists outside of reality" mean? I Still don't have an answer to that.


I understand what infinity means, yet it only took me a few hours to do so. Therefore longer than infinity should not take more than a few days.

You understand that infinity goes on forever, and you do that by understanding the initial part of infinity, like repeating decimals. Example: .555555555555555555555... etc. You understand why it's repeating and why it won't stop, but you don't actually fully understand infinity in that you don't understand infinity as a whole, that you don't see all of infinity and understand it that way. Greater than infinity is even harder to comprehend than understanding all of infinity as I've explained, so how would you even start to understand it?

 

[ppp]

but you don't actually fully understand infinity in that you don't understand infinity as a whole

You are incorrect.

Greater than infinity is even harder to comprehend

Demonstrate that you are capable of knowing what you are claiming.

 

[Echogem222]

You are incorrect.

Demonstrate that you are capable of knowing what you are claiming.

You know, you keep saying things without explaining what you mean, but you expect me to explain more so that you can understand me. Do you not realize the issue here? I can't understand what you truly need to learn from me if you respond so vaguely.

You said I'm incorrect, but not why. Just what am I even supposed to understand from that about your viewpoint??

If you don't start putting more effort into this, I'm going to stop responding to you.

 

[ppp]

If you don't start putting more effort into this, I'm going to stop responding to you.

That's fine. You are accusing me of making no explanations when you are literally making bald assertions, such as this:

but you don't actually fully understand infinity in that you don't understand infinity as a whole, that you don't see all of infinity and understand it that way.

I gave you a succinct definition of infinity and provided you with examples of different sized infinities You have given me nothing but assertions about what I do and don't know. You lack the ability to know what I do and don't know.

 

[RestlessSoul]

What is mind - brain? That too is none other than reality ('what exists'). Our brain/body is not independent of the reality.
The chasm that you think between the two, does not exist.
It is with mind, thinking, analyzing what you know that you can apprehend, understand it.
It is not something with which we interact. We are it. 'We act' means 'Brahman acts'.
We are 'what exists'. We are none other than Brahman, like everything else also is.

Mandukya Upanishad said: "Sarvam khalu idam Brahma" (All things here are Brahman), "Ayamatma Brahman" (This self is Brahman), Chhandogya Upaishad said: "Tat twam asi" (That is what you are), Brihadaranyaka Upanishad said: "Aham Brahmasmi" (I am Brahman), Ishavasya Upanishad said "So Aham" (I am that very entity).

Well I’m a philosophical Monist, so if you are saying that all distinction - between the internal and external world, between man and nature, between object, observer, and the act of observation - are arbitrary and illusory, I’m inclined to agree.

But that doesn’t really resolve the issue of the mind. If our human perception of a world of discrete objects and phenomena, interacting with each other through contact and collision, is illusory, the mind is the source of that illusion. The alchemist mind, interpreter of symbols and constructor of narratives, is both revelator and deceiver.

 

[Echogem222]

That's fine. You are accusing me of making no explanations when you are literally making bald assertions, such as this:

I gave you a succinct definition of infinity and provided you with examples of different sized infinities You have given me nothing but assertions about what I do and don't know. You lack the ability to know what I do and don't know.

Fine, then this is where our conversation ends. Have a nice day.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sorry, but that just doesn't work.

You are trying to make the cart push the horse, and that can only lead to misunderstandings or worse.

Instead, it is necessary to establish what should count as a religion and on which grounds. Then analyze the candidates and see which qualify.

The results are surprising.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The alchemist mind, interpreter of symbols and constructor of narratives, is both revelator and deceiver.

When that happens, take the help of science. Currently, science says that we began with a lot of energy in a small space. So, currently, 'physical energy' is what constitutes all things in the universe. If we come to know differently, we will change our views.

 

[RestlessSoul]

When that happens, take the help of science. Currently, science says that we began with a lot of energy in a small space. So, currently, 'physical energy' is what constitutes all things in the universe. If we come to know differently, we will change our views.

Science is not the only way we can lift a corner of the veil