Common themes in pagan religions

[Bear Wild]

When I first decided I was on the pagan side of religions I was naïve to think there were things common to pagan religions that would people would find a commonality to connect. Then everything I introduced in discussion that might represent things in common was then ridiculed and I stopped discussing things. But here I go again as I am learning about Norse religion trying to find what was common ground with their neighbors in the past on the Celtic side which I feel more familiar with. I thought maybe it could help to understand the past beyond the limits of the individual religions. Any input is appreciated I am better at handling rejection now.

Symbolism of Ravens/Crows and Wolves. These two animals seem to be deeply routed in at least the Celtic and Norse religions. They are associated with carrion feeding and thus with death. This conceptual view created the associations with gods and goddesses. Any thoughts?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

So an interesting thing to note, as you bring these animals up, is that hrafn in Old Norse means both crows and ravens. There certainly is some manner of connection between the cultures, as they blended commonly. Places in Scotland, such as Orkney, were viking settlements, and a county in North Scotland is even named Sutherland, as it was south of Norse lands. I have even heard some theories that Loki, and indeed all jotnar, are Celtic deities.

 

[Bear Wild]

So an interesting thing to note, as you bring these animals up, is that hrafn in Old Norse means both crows and ravens. There certainly is some manner of connection between the cultures, as they blended commonly. Places in Scotland, such as Orkney, were viking settlements, and a county in North Scotland is even named Sutherland, as it was south of Norse lands. I have even heard some theories that Loki, and indeed all jotnar, are Celtic deities.

I want to thank you for sharing this. Very nice. The British Isles certainty shared much with Germanic and Vikings considering towns like Dublin and Waterford were Viking settlements.

 

[Hildeburh]

When I first decided I was on the pagan side of religions I was naïve to think there were things common to pagan religions that would people would find a commonality to connect. Then everything I introduced in discussion that might represent things in common was then ridiculed and I stopped discussing things. But here I go again as I am learning about Norse religion trying to find what was common ground with their neighbors in the past on the Celtic side which I feel more familiar with. I thought maybe it could help to understand the past beyond the limits of the individual religions. Any input is appreciated I am better at handling rejection now.

Symbolism of Ravens/Crows and Wolves. These two animals seem to be deeply routed in at least the Celtic and Norse religions. They are associated with carrion feeding and thus with death. This conceptual view created the associations with gods and goddesses. Any thoughts?

There is a great deal of common ground, I always recommend the classic book by Michael J. Enright called Lady with a Mead Cup: Ritual, Prophecy, and Lordship in the European Warband from La Tène to the Viking Age. This book discusses the impact and influence of the Celts on early Germanic beliefs and practices.

Wolves and ravens are associated with far more than death, the battlefield and carrion; in AS lore the raven, eagle, and the wolf appear before battle, their appearance is tied with the fate of the warriors on the battlefield. In Anglo Saxon England beasts of battle (which includes the boar) are also seen as having prophetic knowledge and intricately linked to wyrd. One particular kenning from AS poetry for raven/crow is wonn wælceasega (‘the dark chooser of the slain’), would seem to the parallel Celtic lore of the Morrigan and later Norse lore.

Cognate with the Old Norse word hrafn, OE poetry most often uses the word hrefn to mean raven, rook or crow.

 

[Hildeburh]

I want to thank you for sharing this. Very nice. The British Isles certainty shared much with Germanic and Vikings considering towns like Dublin and Waterford were Viking settlements.

The Vikings (mostly Danes) also invaded England from AD746 onwards, occupying vast tracts of territory in eastern England between the Rivers Tees and Thames forming the region known as Danelaw.

 

[Bear Wild]

There is a great deal of common ground, I always recommend the classic book by Michael J. Enright called Lady with a Mead Cup: Ritual, Prophecy, and Lordship in the European Warband from La Tène to the Viking Age. This book discusses the impact and influence of the Celts on early Germanic beliefs and practices.

Wolves and ravens are associated with far more than death, the battlefield and carrion; in AS lore the raven, eagle, and the wolf appear before battle, their appearance is tied with the fate of the warriors on the battlefield. In Anglo Saxon England beasts of battle (which includes the boar) are also seen as having prophetic knowledge and intricately linked to wyrd. One particular kenning from AS poetry for raven/crow is wonn wælceasega (‘the dark chooser of the slain’), would seem to the parallel Celtic lore of the Morrigan and later Norse lore.

Cognate with the Old Norse word hrafn, OE poetry most often uses the word hrefn to mean raven, rook or crow.

Thanks for the insight. The book "Michael J. Enright called Lady with a Mead Cup: Ritual, Prophecy, and Lordship in the European Warband from La Tène to the Viking Age" I need to see how I can get a copy to read. It has been a very long time since I had read the poetic edda and sagas during which time I followed a Celtic path of Irish and Welsh. On reading them again I was fascinated by many similarities. I hadn't thought about the boars which were important to both.
I had never retained how the Valkyries wore swan cloaks and also associated with ravens. Considering how significant swans were in Celtic culture and probably in much of at least northern Europe. Also Thor's hammer certainly could kill but in one instance brought his goats back to life reminding me of Dagda's club that could kill on one end and restore life on the other. There is also similarity of women associated with war and leading.

 

[Hildeburh]

Lady With a Mead Cup

 

[Hildeburh]

Thanks for the insight. The book "Michael J. Enright called Lady with a Mead Cup: Ritual, Prophecy, and Lordship in the European Warband from La Tène to the Viking Age" I need to see how I can get a copy to read. It has been a very long time since I had read the poetic edda and sagas during which time I followed a Celtic path of Irish and Welsh. On reading them again I was fascinated by many similarities. I hadn't thought about the boars which were important to both.
I had never retained how the Valkyries wore swan cloaks and also associated with ravens. Considering how significant swans were in Celtic culture and probably in much of at least northern Europe. Also Thor's hammer certainly could kill but in one instance brought his goats back to life reminding me of Dagda's club that could kill on one end and restore life on the other. There is also similarity of women associated with war and leading.

Thanks for the insight. The book "Michael J. Enright called Lady with a Mead Cup: Ritual, Prophecy, and Lordship in the European Warband from La Tène to the Viking Age" I need to see how I can get a copy to read. It has been a very long time since I had read the poetic edda and sagas during which time I followed a Celtic path of Irish and Welsh. On reading them again I was fascinated by many similarities. I hadn't thought about the boars which were important to both.
I had never retained how the Valkyries wore swan cloaks and also associated with ravens. Considering how significant swans were in Celtic culture and probably in much of at least northern Europe. Also Thor's hammer certainly could kill but in one instance brought his goats back to life reminding me of Dagda's club that could kill on one end and restore life on the other. There is also similarity of women associated with war and leading.

Sorry I didn't have much time yesterday. Early tribes were labeled as German or Celtic by interpretatio romana there was no unified Germanic or Celtic culture, tribesmen would have been known by a tribal name and it is still the source of some debate as to which tribes were Germanic and which were Celtic. Some tribes such as the Cimbri and the Teutones have Celto-Germanic features so it is not surprising that some mythology is shared.

There are similarities between the myth of the Celtic Lugh and that of Wodan/Odin; both are associated with war, prophesy, ravens, magic, the spear, one eye (Lugh closed one eye during battle or to do magic) and both were considered the most powerful of the gods. Both replaced older gods who were said to have lost an arm; Tyr in the case of Norse mythology and the sky god in Celtic mythology.

Donar/Thor and Taranis share the similarities of having a theonym that means thunder, a chariot, a red beard and carrying a tool associated with thunder.

Their many other shared cultural and mythological features; the prominance of the female seeress, importance of drinking rituals, an axis mundi and giants as protangonists.