Compassionate fundamentalism

[Sultan Of Swing]

The Real Faces Behind the Gay Issue| Desiring God

I wish more Christians could be like this (including myself). Uncompromising and fearless passion for the truth of the Bible, and uncompromising and fearless passion for the love of our neighbour. It is not often that you see both together.

I've opened this up to the public religious debates room to hear other's thoughts on this. If all Christians acted in this manner, while still upholding key and often controversial Biblical truths, would it change your perspective on Christianity/Christians?

It would at least help us to live more peaceably with each other. (Not that people of other faiths or non-faith don't contribute more than their fair share of vitriol, but that isn't the topic for today. )

Have you ever encountered in your own personal experience a Christian that was very much conservative and firm on Biblical issues, while at the same time being incredibly loving and other-centred, to the point where it was noticeable and maybe even gave you a second thought on your attitude of Christians in general?

 

[lovemuffin]

If the question is "wouldn't it be lovely if Christians were more loving towards everyone" then the answer must be yes. The problem is that acts of kindness, as wonderful as they are, don't necessarily annul the consequences of "uncompromising and fearless passion" when the latter is expressed using political power to restrict the civil rights of gay people.

 

[gsa]

No.

First, this is meaningless to me unless she also recognizes the separation of church and state and is willing to say "I have my own beliefs, but that's not the basis for legislation. Gay couples should have the right to marry, even if I believe that gay couples who have sex are risking eternal damnation."

Second, I find the behavior cited in this example exploitative of the teenage boy. He doesn't need Jesus, and he certainly doesn't need to be subjected to traditional Christian teachings on homosexuality. Let's take a look at his story:

As they stumbled their way on the ice, he told her about being raised and shunned in a small town, being kicked out of school and out of his church, moving to work on his singing career, all the while dealing with “the pressure of being different” — “being gay.”


“I believe in God,” he said, “but I don’t like who he’s made me and what he does to me. I believe in the Bible, but not the parts that have nasty things to say about people like me. People think gays are happy and confident all the time, but most of the time, I’m sad. Most of the time, I’m lonely.”


“We’re all born a little sad,” she said, smiling, “all a little lonely.”


Except he wasn't born "a little sad" or "a little lonely," he was subjected to horrific abuse at the hands of his community, presumably because it was Christian. He cannot escape the brainwashing, of course, because he drank from the Christian cup of poison pretty regularly. It is next to impossible to escape it, given the way it permeates even an increasingly secular United States.

People are not born sick. People are not born broken. They are simply told that they are sick by people who have a personal, often financial, investment in the "Good News" of total depravity and original sin.

I feel sorry for this poor woman. She believes that her shallow expressions of love and human compassion are only possible because of a dead Jewish heretic who may very well have believed she was a dirty idolatrous Gentile.

As for the questions:

Have you ever encountered in your own personal experience a Christian that was very much conservative and firm on Biblical issues, while at the same time being incredibly loving and other-centred, to the point where it was noticeable and maybe even gave you a second thought on your attitude of Christians in general?

I have met Christians who believed terrible things and acted in terrible ways with respect to gays, atheists and other undesirables, but who were nonetheless quite personable and friendly. But so what? I don't hate Christians, I hate Christianity. I don't want to purge the world of Christians, just their religion.

And if that sounds unbelievable coming from me, you can probably understand why the "love the sinner, hate the sin" refrain falls on deaf ears.

 

[gsa]

If the question is "wouldn't it be lovely if Christians were more loving towards everyone" then the answer must be yes. The problem is that acts of kindness, as wonderful as they are, don't necessarily annul the consequences of "uncompromising and fearless passion" when the latter is expressed using political power to restrict the civil rights of gay people.

I was listening to a great story the other day, some atheist gave a talk and was approached afterwards by some Christians who were offended, and said so. And he simply said, "So, forgive me."

After all, aren't we to expect this selfless love from true Christians? I suppose the fact that we expect quite the opposite is revealing in its own way, but no atheist believes herself to be commanded by a god to unconditionally love her neighbor, much less her enemy as herself.

In any event, I still have problems with the attitude. Why not just behave normally around a gay person? Or someone outside of the faith?

 

[JRMcC]

The Real Faces Behind the Gay Issue| Desiring God

I wish more Christians could be like this (including myself). Uncompromising and fearless passion for the truth of the Bible, and uncompromising and fearless passion for the love of our neighbour. It is not often that you see both together.

I've opened this up to the public religious debates room to hear other's thoughts on this. If all Christians acted in this manner, while still upholding key and often controversial Biblical truths, would it change your perspective on Christianity/Christians?

It would at least help us to live more peaceably with each other. (Not that people of other faiths or non-faith don't contribute more than their fair share of vitriol, but that isn't the topic for today. )

Have you ever encountered in your own personal experience a Christian that was very much conservative and firm on Biblical issues, while at the same time being incredibly loving and other-centred, to the point where it was noticeable and maybe even gave you a second thought on your attitude of Christians in general?

Interesting thoughts. Most of the time fundamentalists are very nice, and I think they always mean well. But when fundamentalists do things like claim that Shiva is actually Satan, it comes off as... I don't know, not compassionate.

 

[gsa]

Interesting thoughts. Most of the time fundamentalists are very nice, and I think they always mean well. But when fundamentalists do things like claim that Shiva is actually Satan, it comes off as... I don't know, not compassionate.

I was raised next to, and babysat by, Christian fundamentalists. Honestly, I don't know if they mean well or not. With some, I have noticed a certain smugness, which is absent for others.

But I think almost all of them believe that the worship of Shiva is satanic. If they won't make allowances for Allah, no six armed snake wearing, trident bearing god of destruction is going to do any better.

 

[icehorse]

I think the "loving" girl is being dogmatic and judgmental.

 

[gsa]

I think the "loving" girl is being dogmatic and judgmental.

Whenever I read these stories, I wonder if they are concocted out of thin air. Because if this did happen, I doubt that the young boy walked away from the conversation with the impression that the author thinks he had.

 

[Father Heathen]

Understanding is an integral part of compassion. Objectivity is an integral part of understanding. Honesty is an integral part of objectivity.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

The Real Faces Behind the Gay Issue| Desiring God

I wish more Christians could be like this (including myself). Uncompromising and fearless passion for the truth of the Bible, and uncompromising and fearless passion for the love of our neighbour. It is not often that you see both together.

I've opened this up to the public religious debates room to hear other's thoughts on this. If all Christians acted in this manner, while still upholding key and often controversial Biblical truths, would it change your perspective on Christianity/Christians?

It would at least help us to live more peaceably with each other. (Not that people of other faiths or non-faith don't contribute more than their fair share of vitriol, but that isn't the topic for today. )

Have you ever encountered in your own personal experience a Christian that was very much conservative and firm on Biblical issues, while at the same time being incredibly loving and other-centred, to the point where it was noticeable and maybe even gave you a second thought on your attitude of Christians in general?

I've met very nice/loving Jehovah Witnesses, and it didn't change my perspective on organised Christianity as a whole

 

[gsa]

I've met very nice/loving Jehovah Witnesses, and it didn't change my perspective on organised Christianity as a whole

I can just hear the objection now: But those are JWs, not Christians.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I can just hear the objection now: But those are JWs, not Christians.

Yeah I really hate it when people try and argue that one, they believe Jesus is the messiah and follow the new testament, they are Christian sect.