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Complete submission to God - how?
- Thread starter Onkara
- Start date
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
I have to wonder if our perceptions that we are not already 100% subservient to him is simply our own blindness to a reality we repress and think we can hide from.
Think of: the child that innocently covers his eyes with his hands and thinks no one sees them.
Think of: the child that innocently covers his eyes with his hands and thinks no one sees them.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Maybe that part of the mind fails to see the union that's already there.
Not seeing because it is dreaming of something else, is my point. In a wakeful state of focused attentionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis#cite_note-5 and heightened suggestibility,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis#cite_note-6 but with diminished peripheral awareness, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis#cite_note-7as in a state of physical relaxation accompanied and induced by mental concentration. In the simplest of terms, daydreaming or lost in abstraction and reacting to shadows.
All anxiety is caused by the misapprehension of what is so. We are not upset by facts, but the interpretation of facts. A good reason to abandon our own judgment in a situation is when it can be shown that our previous learning had not been sufficient to avoid it in the first place. Knowledge is substance, occupying space in the mind. Making room, knowledge flows freely into an open mind. A mind occupied with looking for compliance can be blindsided as to the extant content of the moment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis#cite_note-8
That's a great question. I should start by saying I'm a Christian of no particular denomination, and what follows is my own POV which is heavily influenced by the Bible and certain theologians from throughout Christian history.
One of the core doctrines of Christianity is called total inability. The main idea is that no one starts out being able to do what you described- reach and maintain this state of mind, completely hand their lives over to God, etc. This doctrine doesn't imply that all people are as bad as they could be- actually, most people are able to be pretty good most of the time. But the things you described are impossible for anyone to just go ahead and do on their own.
What's necessary is for God to take direct action on you in such a way that He....does a variety of things. One of those involves indwelling you, and the specific person of the Trinity that does this is the Holy Spirit. Another is "regeneration0-" God transforms you from a non-Christian who is incapable of doing the things described in your OP and causes you to become a Christian who is capable of doing these things.
In order for any of that to happen, God basically just has to do it. So initially, a person who's not yet a Christian (but would like to be) just has to ask God to do those things and wait for Him to do them. If He doesn't do it immediately, keep asking and waiting. For some people, God does it right away. Others have to wait awhile. And sometimes, people will ask in good faith, observe that nothing happened, and wind up being anywhere from agnostic to atheistic.
Personally, I had to wait for close to a couple of years. For people who give up or wind up in some kind of religious moratorium, I think the right thing to do is keep asking and not give up. But I was there for quite awhile, and I know it's pretty hard. I don't know what would have happened if I'd gone 10 years or more without anything. I'm glad I didn't have to find out.
Some Christians will also say certain sacraments (baptism, in particular) automatically cause God to do this. But then if you ask whether or not God actually did any of this at that particular time, it can be hard to get a straight answer. Most just take it on faith because their church says God's supposed to do Y when you do X, but they can't confirm that God actually did Y based directly on whether or not God did Y. That's not true of every Christian who depends on the sacraments in this way, but that's what you can expect most of the time.
Again, for me personally, I was baptized when I was in middle school. God didn't do anything right then either. It didn't happen until God did it, which was after high school and into college. The only hard and fast rule I can give you is that God does it exactly when He does it. Or not, I suppose- that's an option, too.
This is all just my opinion based on my own worldview and faith. It in no way is meant to reflect how others should live or that I think I know the answers. I don't. This is just my personal methods. Any time I say 'you' I really mean 'I'.
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Listen to God. He's already running through your mind. Just listen.
A good way is through intense prayer. Not just kneeling with hands clasped. Fasting or meditating or even doing God's work (and by that I mean helping the less fortunate, not evangelizing). Something to make the declaration of faith real and physical. It helps to realign you with what God wants you to do.
More important than that though, is coming to grips with the idea that nothing you know about the nature of God is true. He cannot be put in a box and you will never know of his nature. It is wrong to assume anything about God. It is bad to claim to know his message or his intent. We can only follow the path that we think is laid out before us, and most humbly. If he decides to turn us on our heel, we must turn.
In reference to your third question, I think that it always matters. A good real world example is Hershey's, whose production arm has ties to child slavery and human trafficking. If I'm faced with Hershey's chocolate, even if I didn't pay for it, it doesn't align with my values, and so I would refuse it. It doesn't matter whether or not they get my dollar. It doesn't matter that they'll never know I refused it. If something is not in line with the morals you hold, don't do it. Go the extra mile to avoid it.
Which is not to say that your values should be expected of others. To claim that your morals are the correct ones is to claim that you know what's right and what's wrong, which is to claim that you know the will and intention of God, and that is arrogant and wrong.
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Listen to God. He's already running through your mind. Just listen.
A good way is through intense prayer. Not just kneeling with hands clasped. Fasting or meditating or even doing God's work (and by that I mean helping the less fortunate, not evangelizing). Something to make the declaration of faith real and physical. It helps to realign you with what God wants you to do.
More important than that though, is coming to grips with the idea that nothing you know about the nature of God is true. He cannot be put in a box and you will never know of his nature. It is wrong to assume anything about God. It is bad to claim to know his message or his intent. We can only follow the path that we think is laid out before us, and most humbly. If he decides to turn us on our heel, we must turn.
In reference to your third question, I think that it always matters. A good real world example is Hershey's, whose production arm has ties to child slavery and human trafficking. If I'm faced with Hershey's chocolate, even if I didn't pay for it, it doesn't align with my values, and so I would refuse it. It doesn't matter whether or not they get my dollar. It doesn't matter that they'll never know I refused it. If something is not in line with the morals you hold, don't do it. Go the extra mile to avoid it.
Which is not to say that your values should be expected of others. To claim that your morals are the correct ones is to claim that you know what's right and what's wrong, which is to claim that you know the will and intention of God, and that is arrogant and wrong.
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Ben Masada
Well-Known Member
Read Psalm 119. The whole thing. I think the only way to completely hand over our life to God is by obeying God's Law and by studying, besides the Scriptures, Philosophy, Metaphysics, Psychology and ESP.
Civil Shephard
Active Member
Hey everyone... great thread.
I went to sleep last night in the midst of a great personal difficulty and found myself saying I'll do this or that about it. I even felt like our Creator was giving me these ideas. But now that I've slept on it I'm still not sure what to do... so, I may do nothing and just keep asking God to take care of the problem that baffles me. It amazes me how I think I have the answer and can't admit to myself the most difficult and sometimes most merciful words in my current experience.
"I don't know."
Sometimes I've felt that statement in itself is submission to God. But I suppose if I don't know than I'd better seek God and find out what God wants me to do or think or pray. But for now my poverty is comforting... and I hope that poverty is akin to the first beattitude.
Peter
I went to sleep last night in the midst of a great personal difficulty and found myself saying I'll do this or that about it. I even felt like our Creator was giving me these ideas. But now that I've slept on it I'm still not sure what to do... so, I may do nothing and just keep asking God to take care of the problem that baffles me. It amazes me how I think I have the answer and can't admit to myself the most difficult and sometimes most merciful words in my current experience.
"I don't know."
Sometimes I've felt that statement in itself is submission to God. But I suppose if I don't know than I'd better seek God and find out what God wants me to do or think or pray. But for now my poverty is comforting... and I hope that poverty is akin to the first beattitude.
Peter
McBell
Unbound
Which god?
And no, I am not meaning just Jesus, YHWH, Allah, Zeus, etc.
I am meaning all the different pictures of god that are painted by Christians alone.
Which one?
Hello Mestemia
I am happy with your personal definition of "God". My own definition has no real limitations, it is closer to Brahman of Vedanta, Shiva-Shakti of Kashmir Shavism or the Pantheist perspective of all being God. Should any of that help the answer
McBell
Unbound
Hello Mestemia
I am happy with your personal definition of "God". My own definition has no real limitations, it is closer to Brahman of Vedanta, Shiva-Shakti of Kashmir Shavism or the Pantheist perspective of all being God. Should any of that help the answer
I think I understand you.
You mean total submission to whatever picture of god each person has, right?
Yes, correct. What I found also to be interesting is that some people have been able to respond quite naturally on the OP, as if that submission is natural and unquestionable. They have simply described how it is (for them).
This submission is something which I imagine Atheists would find quite repulsive and unnecessary.
It happens when a monastic image of the united world is realized. "I'm there for you." Thereafter, it's maintained in memory.
It's not only practical, but practiced, by many.
What "bigger" goal is there than an image of unity with everything?
:bow: That's funny... I don't actually have an answer to that question.
chinu
chinu
"Bahn pakar Gur kadia, So hi utteriya Par,
Lakh kushia padshia je satgur nader kare." #GGS
English: "The person who's arm is caughted by guru, only crosses"
"Bhagata te sansaria jor kade na hoe" # GGS
English: Devotees and wordly, does't have any relation.
"Tum se jo jori, avar sang tori" # GGS.
English: "As i have made relation with you, so i have breaked with others."
"Guru permeshwar eko jaan, jo tis pave so parvan" #GGS
English: "Believe as there is no any difference between Guru and God."
"Ukat syanap sagle tyaag, sant jana ki charni laag" #GGS
English: "Leave all your intelligence, and go to the feets of Saints."
"Santan ki hoe dasr-ee, eah achara Sikh-ree" # GGS
English: "Learn how to become the servents to Saints."
"Gur bin gyaan nahin" # GGS
English: "No knowledge without Guru."
_/\_ Chinu.