Concept of God

[Madhuri]

The Gita is a philosophical discourse on the meaning of life. It is very rational. I do not believe that they are contradictions, but they are written into the text to add extra explanation in to the meaning of life. It is meant to help us to harmonize many schools of thought in to one.
It is deeply admired by much of the western Intelligencia as a great discourse on life. Remember that this is one of the texts that influenced Schrodinger contributions to quantum mechanics.

Apparently Einstien loved it too

 

[Onkara]

The Gita is a philosophical discourse on the meaning of life. It is very rational. I do not believe that they are contradictions, but they are written into the text to add extra explanation in to the meaning of life. It is meant to help us to harmonize many schools of thought in to one.
It is deeply admired by much of the western Intelligencia as a great discourse on life. Remember that this is one of the texts that influenced Schrodinger contributions to quantum mechanics.

I agree, the way I see it is we are guided through levels of understanding. Only to be told that now we can look back, understand clearly and even discard that which helped us get so far.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Charzino,

''One who knows me as birthless, beginningless, and the supreme controller of all the worlds; he being undeluded among mortals is delivered from all sins.''

Now my question is , if the true reality of God in Hinduism is this description, why is there a belief that God incarnates as man onto the earth as avatars such as Raama, Vishnu, Mahesh, and even Krishna himself?

Your query is very near to the TRUTH.
You have not used the word *god* as a person but as a concept.
That is absolutely right.
God is only a concept to understand that ENERGY of which all seen and unseen forms/no-forms are part of. Rest of the description as you have mentioned * and the supreme controller of all the worlds; he being undeluded among mortals is delivered from all sins* are human interpretations which is personalised by the person stating them for an understanding.

Now to your question: who is an avatar/messengers/prophets? Ans: "individual who has similar qualities."
If one could see he could see that every human has the same qualities/potential but they are still not declared avatars?
Because they are not enlightened.
So, God is only a concept and never can take birth. It is a concept to describe that ENERGY that is beginning less, birth less, endless etc. Humans are the only animals having the potential to merge with that ENERGY and those who merge are called avatars.
Love & rgds

 

[santdasji]

Thats your concept and opinion. Truth is that Bhagwan Himself comes upon the earth and describes who He is. He is the cause of all there is.

 

[zenzero]

Thats your concept and opinion

 

[anupj]

Thats your concept and opinion

friend zenzero,
what happened, did you adopt a new style of posting on the forum
love & regds

 

[zenzero]

Friend anupj,

It was just echoing/mirroring effect.
That is a Way when one confronts minds that are blocked even to reasons.
Minds that behave like robots. Minds that follow blindly. Minds that have ceased to reason.

Love & rgds

 

[santdasji]

Thats funny as thats what people say when they think they hve answers but dont. After reasoning everything, looking into scriptures as well as questioning them and then coming to a conclusion. I conclude that there is a God. That He is the master of all that there is.

In no case one should avoid or ignore the form of God. If due to times, one has to ignore the words of God, there is no point of worry for that, but in all ups and down one should remain adhered to the form of God with full faith. One who rejects or ignores the form of God, is never exempted. Therefore, those who are spiritually wise, should follow the sacred injunctions per his own capacity but must have firm faith in knowledge of God's evertranscendental supreme divine form, even when in human manifistation. Such a firm faith and knowledge, which a devotee has, such a devotee, by circumstances if falls out from Satsang, but though out of Satsang, he maintains the knowledge of image of God in human form and his devotion for that image. Such a devotee, who at present time, is out of Satsang and leaves his body, will attain Akshardham of Supreme Lord. And when who at present in Satsang1 and follows the holy injunctions properly but not so firm in the knowledge of image of God in human form before him, when will leave his body, will attain the Loka of Brahma or other Gods but not the holy abode of Lord Purushottam. Therefore one should try to realise that God manifesting himself on earth in human form is the highest supreme reality, is the cause of all Avatars and is always divine. Arjuna possessed such knowledge which sustained his spiritual vigour, whereas Yudhishthira had the strength of scriptural injunctions only.

Bhagwan Krishna has said... I shall redeem you from all the imminent sins and shall grant you ultimate deliverance. You should not grieve.) Reposing complete faith in the sacred words of the Lord, Arjuna,6 undaunted by any fear of sin, fought the war but never lost courage. Yudhishthira7 stayed away from the sins of war, fought the war still thinking sins of war as he relied on the scriptures and felt depressed that he would never be redeemed. The Rishis,8 Ved Vyas9 and even Lord Krishna10 reconcile butYudhishthira7 was not quite convinced and relieved of his perplexity. Ultimately on instance of Shri Krishna,10 Bhishma13 too reconciled him on with the support of scriptuers, but was not fully relieved from the perplexity. Therefore, the spiritually wise always rely more an spiritual vigour which is inspired by the divine contact of God. Such a relience, even if it be scant averts dangers of the greatest evils.

The Shrimad Bhagwat16 also lays down that one who infringes unkowingly the moral code of conduct laid down in the Shrutis and Smritis is exempted from such sins by Prayaschitta,17 but one who does not seek refuge in God is condemned totally. Some may feel that such loose talks regarding Dharma11 would develop a flagrant disregard for Dhrama." But the talk is not for encouraging disregard for Dharma. However, when the beneficent or maleficent influence of the eight factors viz place, time, actions, company, sacred words, scriptures, preaching and the presiding deities predominate, their impact prevails. If they are adverse, their evil influence will predominote and the impact on the aspirant will be malevolent which would deflect him from the spiritual path. But if the devotee possesses spiritual vigour born out of his repose in God, he would ultimately be redeemed. If, however, he lacks such spiritual vigour, the moment he infringes the law of Dharma" he would feel he is condemned to hell. Therefore, the knowledge of the self of God is absolutely vital for consolidating spiritual vigour, and such a devotee is a true Ekantik Bhakta.15 The scriptures too hail such a devotee. Excepting this, the other aspirants who fall short of this vital attribute can be said to be beginners only. The divine urge to know God in his human form is so enticing that Narada,18 the Sanka18 Brahma19 and others deities desire to be on earth to hear this discourse.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

The following response from friend santdasji is responded for everyone to understand.

Thats funny as thats what people say when they think they hve answers but dont. [Since it is funny, am sure you had a big laugh as everyone Laughs but reasons could be different. Next, THINKING never gets one the answeres, meditation does and meditation is all about the mind free from thoughts. During those moments of thoughtlessness, things gets revealed on its own accord.]After reasoning everything, looking into scriptures as well as questioning them and then coming to a conclusion. I conclude that there is a God. That He is the master of all that there is. [Who is reasoning? and about what? and may you declare what that god is? which you have concluded.]

In no case one should avoid or ignore the form of God. [which form?]If due to times, one has to ignore the words of God, there is no point of worry for that, but in all ups and down one should remain adhered to the form of God with full faith. One who rejects or ignores the form of God, is never exempted. Therefore, those who are spiritually wise, should follow the sacred injunctions per his own capacity but must have firm faith in knowledge of God's evertranscendental supreme divine form, even when in human manifistation. Such a firm faith and knowledge, which a devotee has, such a devotee, by circumstances if falls out from Satsang, but though out of Satsang, he maintains the knowledge of image of God in human form and his devotion for that image. Such a devotee, who at present time, is out of Satsang and leaves his body, will attain Akshardham of Supreme Lord. And when who at present in Satsang1 and follows the holy injunctions properly but not so firm in the knowledge of image of God in human form before him, when will leave his body, will attain the Loka of Brahma or other Gods but not the holy abode of Lord Purushottam. Therefore one should try to realise that God manifesting himself on earth in human form is the highest supreme reality, is the cause of all Avatars and is always divine. Arjuna possessed such knowledge which sustained his spiritual vigour, whereas Yudhishthira had the strength of scriptural injunctions only.

Bhagwan Krishna has said... I shall redeem you from all the imminent sins and shall grant you ultimate deliverance. You should not grieve.) Reposing complete faith in the sacred words of the Lord, Arjuna,6 undaunted by any fear of sin, fought the war but never lost courage. Yudhishthira7 stayed away from the sins of war, fought the war still thinking sins of war as he relied on the scriptures and felt depressed that he would never be redeemed. The Rishis,8 Ved Vyas9 and even Lord Krishna10 reconcile butYudhishthira7 was not quite convinced and relieved of his perplexity. Ultimately on instance of Shri Krishna,10 Bhishma13 too reconciled him on with the support of scriptuers, but was not fully relieved from the perplexity. Therefore, the spiritually wise always rely more an spiritual vigour which is inspired by the divine contact of God. Such a relience, even if it be scant averts dangers of the greatest evils.

The Shrimad Bhagwat16 also lays down that one who infringes unkowingly the moral code of conduct laid down in the Shrutis and Smritis is exempted from such sins by Prayaschitta,17 but one who does not seek refuge in God is condemned totally. Some may feel that such loose talks regarding Dharma11 would develop a flagrant disregard for Dhrama." But the talk is not for encouraging disregard for Dharma. However, when the beneficent or maleficent influence of the eight factors viz place, time, actions, company, sacred words, scriptures, preaching and the presiding deities predominate, their impact prevails. If they are adverse, their evil influence will predominote and the impact on the aspirant will be malevolent which would deflect him from the spiritual path. But if the devotee possesses spiritual vigour born out of his repose in God, he would ultimately be redeemed. If, however, he lacks such spiritual vigour, the moment he infringes the law of Dharma" he would feel he is condemned to hell. Therefore, the knowledge of the self of God is absolutely vital for consolidating spiritual vigour, and such a devotee is a true Ekantik Bhakta.15 The scriptures too hail such a devotee. Excepting this, the other aspirants who fall short of this vital attribute can be said to be beginners only. The divine urge to know God in his human form is so enticing that Narada,18 the Sanka18 Brahma19 and others deities desire to be on earth to hear this discourse.

[It is clear that here friend santdasji is referring to Krishna and no references to buddha, mahavire, jesus, gurunanak, sridi sai, etc. etc. besides each human including friend santadasji himself is a potential as everything including whatever is seen or unseen are made of the same stuff each tiniest part of every molecular structure is made of the same stuff and are all avatars. Except that some realises this while others do not. The barrier only between knowing/understanding and NOT knowing/understanding is the mind which is in one case full of THOUGHTS and n the other FREE of THOUGHTS.]

Love & rgds

 

[Satsangi]

''One who knows me as birthless, beginningless, and the supreme controller of all the worlds; he being undeluded among mortals is delivered from all sins.''
What Bhagwan says is that the God described in the Vedanta and Scriptures as birthless, without beginning or end, who cannot be perceived by mind or senses is none other then the Human form of Krishna himself. When a devotee realises this Gnan (knowledge), he becomes undeluded and delivered from all sins.

 

[zenzero]

Friend satsangi,

''One who knows me as birthless, beginningless, and the supreme controller of all the worlds; he being undeluded among mortals is delivered from all sins.''
What Bhagwan says is that the God described in the Vedanta and Scriptures as birthless, without beginning or end, who cannot be perceived by mind or senses is none other then the Human form of Krishna himself. When a devotee realises this Gnan (knowledge), he becomes undeluded and delivered from all sins.

You quote scriptures namely Vedanta. The same essence is available in Gurugranth, in Tao Te Ching and elsewhere.
Remembering them too is of no benefit to anyone.
Living the same in essence is what dharma is all about.
You will find that consciousness in you too is without beginning or end, it is birthless, deathless etc. it is in all forms in you in me in krishna in tress, rivers you name it, it is all the same.

Love & rgds

 

[Onkara]

''One who knows me as birthless, beginningless, and the supreme controller of all the worlds; he being undeluded among mortals is delivered from all sins.''
What Bhagwan says is that the God described in the Vedanta and Scriptures as birthless, without beginning or end, who cannot be perceived by mind or senses is none other then the Human form of Krishna himself. When a devotee realises this Gnan (knowledge), he becomes undeluded and delivered from all sins.

Hi Satsangi and welcome to the forum!
Please can you explain who you refer to when you say "Bhagwan", as it is not a name which I come across frequently and would appreciate knowing? May I ask which school of thought/vedanta appeals most to you? Not to debate it validity but so I may learn.

Thank you,
Onkarah.

 

[Madhuri]

Hi Satsangi and welcome to the forum!
Please can you explain who you refer to when you say "Bhagwan", as it is not a name which I come across frequently and would appreciate knowing? May I ask which school of thought/vedanta appeals most to you? Not to debate it validity but so I may learn.

Thank you,
Onkarah.

Hi Onkarah, I'm going ot totally butt in here and answer on Satsangi's behalf as he/she is not online...ahem...
I think I can safetly say that Satsangi is a Vaishnava, probably a Hare Krishna.
Bhagwan, or Bhagavan refers to the Supreme Being, God. You will often here devotees of krishna refering to him as Bhagavan Sri Krishna.

hope that helps

 

[Onkara]

Hi Onkarah, I'm going ot totally butt in here and answer on Satsangi's behalf as he/she is not online...ahem...
I think I can safetly say that Satsangi is a Vaishnava, probably a Hare Krishna.
Bhagwan, or Bhagavan refers to the Supreme Being, God. You will often here devotees of krishna refering to him as Bhagavan Sri Krishna.

hope that helps

Hi Madhuri
That does help, thanks for taking the step to reply
Is it true that Sri Krishna appears in blue and yellow to represent lightening?

Best wishes
Onkarah.

 

[Madhuri]

Hi Madhuri
That does help, thanks for taking the step to reply
Is it true that Sri Krishna appears in blue and yellow to represent lightening?

Best wishes
Onkarah.

I've never actually heard that. The blue is a representation of eternity, apparently and is considered to be a spiritual colour (ie/a blue aura reflects a spiritual nature). Yellow/gold is an auspicious colour. Radha has a golden complexion and she wears blue. I know there is more significance, I am just not very well informed about this. I remember something about the third eye visions, perhaps seeing a circle of blue with golden light around it. I'm not 100% sure right now.

Well, we know that blue and yellow are complimentary colours. Radha, or Shakti is the Energy of Purusha.

Yellow represents joy, warmth, bliss, possibly even consciousness/effulgence/energy and blue represents vastness.

Another reason I've heard is that Vishnu is largely associated with water, which is blue but I don't think this is the best explanation.

Blue can also represent romance and Krishna is definitely a lover
It is also a very calm colour.

anyway, these are some ideas as to why...but not really a proper answer I know. Sorry!

 

[Onkara]

Thank you Madhuri
Your reply adds more for me to think about. Isn't the concept of God interesting!
Onkarah.

 

[Madhuri]

Thank you Madhuri
Your reply adds more for me to think about. Isn't the concept of God interesting!
Onkarah.

Very...also quite complicated

 

[nameless]

sages say truth is as simple as that it cannot be explained.

 

[Satsangi]

Zenzero,
I agree Dharma is about living, but I believe the Journey starts with Scriptures or Guru or both. Sorry, but I do not find my "consciousness" as God; in fact now I perceive it as totally different from God ( this is after my recent yatra to Mt Kailash/Mansarovar). But I do believe that God dwells in my heart as well as in others. The Sanatan Dharma scriptures have been more than enough satisfying for my spiritual quest and I have not really cared or read other scriptures; actually now I am reading even less of Sanatan Dharma scriptures, if any.

Madhuri and Onkarah,
I think of myself as Vaishnava as well as Shaiva. Lord Shiva's tyag, yoga and gyan has fascinated me and so has Shri Krishna's Leelas. I believe that Narayan and Shiva are the different face of the same divinity and hence are same. I go to BAPS satsang and consider Shri Pramukh Swamiji as my spiritual Guru and consider Lord SwamiNarayan as God. I do not prescribe to a particular schools of philosophy, but I believe that they are all true and not contradictory as they are actually STATES OF DIFFERENT DEVOTEES- how they perceived/realized God and they described God as they realized him. Advaita is a state of a devotee who has undergone "gyan pralaya"- this means that he has had the "realization" (dissolution of everything due to knowledge or realization of God) and he sees only Brahman everywhere (including himself- "aham Brahmasmi") and the rest is an illusion which cease to exist FOR HIM. It does not mean that the world stops to exist for other people. Just like a person standing on Mount Everest cannot see individual trees in the valley- he only sees the earth. But a person standing on a small hill can see everything in the valley. This is an analogy of the Advaita and the Dvaita states of the devotees. The Mt Everest and small hill analogy should not be taken as a measurement as to which is a higher or lower state; they are just different states.
I hope this makes sense.

Regards

 

[Madhuri]

Zenzero,
Madhuri and Onkarah,
I think of myself as Vaishnava as well as Shaiva. Lord Shiva's tyag, yoga and gyan has fascinated me and so has Shri Krishna's Leelas. I believe that Narayan and Shiva are the different face of the same divinity and hence are same. I go to BAPS satsang and consider Shri Pramukh Swamiji as my spiritual Guru and consider Lord SwamiNarayan as God. I do not prescribe to a particular schools of philosophy, but I believe that they are all true and not contradictory as they are actually STATES OF DIFFERENT DEVOTEES- how they perceived/realized God and they described God as they realized him. Advaita is a state of a devotee who has undergone "gyan pralaya"- this means that he has had the "realization" (dissolution of everything due to knowledge or realization of God) and he sees only Brahman everywhere (including himself- "aham Brahmasmi") and the rest is an illusion which cease to exist FOR HIM. It does not mean that the world stops to exist for other people. Just like a person standing on Mount Everest cannot see individual trees in the valley- he only sees the earth. But a person standing on a small hill can see everything in the valley. This is an analogy of the Advaita and the Dvaita states of the devotees. The Mt Everest and small hill analogy should not be taken as a measurement as to which is a higher or lower state; they are just different states.
I hope this makes sense.

Regards

Absolutely
Thank you for clarifying!