Concept of Hell is utter nonsense

[RamaRaksha]

A mother abandons her new-born baby in a trash-bin. The child grows up in the streets, abused, beaten, mocked, hungry and lonely, never knowing love and affection. As a grown-up he commits several crimes. Once he dies, some religions tell us that he will go to hell, where he is abused, beaten & mocked! Does this seem right?

 

[OmarKhayyam]

You assume religion is right.

Where did you get that idea?

 

[Zebulun]

How did this new born baby survive in a trash bin/in the streets without being shown some form of affection?

 

[ManTimeForgot]

I suppose modern christians would have you believe that some christian would be there to preach to this child and so bring them into the fold; because its just not possible that God wouldn't take that into account and give everyone some chance at salvation...


I much much prefer the idea of She-ol (or however it is spelled) the original Hebrew conception of "punishment" after death. She-ol is a place of mourning but not actually punishment; it is merely separation from God while knowing the truth (because after you die you become aware of God). And so while presented with the magnificence of God you stay there for not being true to God during your life.

But isn't it odd how the fire and brimstone wrathful God of the Old Testament is more compassionate after death than the kind and compassionate God of the New Testament? I mean because an eternity of pain is just so much kinder than an eternity of "oh man I screwed up."



Of course I don't really buy into either. I think the idea of souls existing and not reincarnating is rather... well wasteful. Like each soul only gets one shot at doing whatever it was tasked with doing during life? What kind of setup is that? I mean certainly a hyper-intelligent or omniscient creator being knows that that is going to lead to a lot of failure and how fair is that?

MTF

 

[TheKnight]

To the OP, I agree that Hell is utter nonsense. It was part of the reason I realized I could not accept Christian theology as true.

I suppose modern christians would have you believe that some christian would be there to preach to this child and so bring them into the fold; because its just not possible that God wouldn't take that into account and give everyone some chance at salvation...


I much much prefer the idea of She-ol (or however it is spelled) the original Hebrew conception of "punishment" after death. She-ol is a place of mourning but not actually punishment; it is merely separation from God while knowing the truth (because after you die you become aware of God). And so while presented with the magnificence of God you stay there for not being true to God during your life.

But isn't it odd how the fire and brimstone wrathful God of the Old Testament is more compassionate after death than the kind and compassionate God of the New Testament? I mean because an eternity of pain is just so much kinder than an eternity of "oh man I screwed up."



Of course I don't really buy into either. I think the idea of souls existing and not reincarnating is rather... well wasteful. Like each soul only gets one shot at doing whatever it was tasked with doing during life? What kind of setup is that? I mean certainly a hyper-intelligent or omniscient creator being knows that that is going to lead to a lot of failure and how fair is that?

MTF

I just thought that I'd comment. Jewish tradition has many many many different opinions on the afterlife. The general consensus is that Gehinom (what you are calling She-ol) is a place that (pretty much) everyone goes to for a period of no longer than 11 months. The time spent in Gehinom is a time of purification and realization of the truth of ones actions throughout one's life. It is not eternal.

Then, after Gehinom, one goes to Gan Eden (The Garden of Eden <not the actual garden of eden, that's just the name it's given>) and awaits the coming of Moshiach.

When Moshiach returns, we all resurrect to live in this physical realm forever.

Also, there is the opinion that somewhere in there, a soul reincarnates (those souls that still had jobs to finish). Also, there are some who get punished eternally for extremely wicked actions...according to Jewish tradition only one person was ever given that punishment.

 

[Dunemeister]

We are judged for what we are culpable for. Period.

 

[Zebulun]

We are judged for what we are culpable for. Period.

I like this statement. I think that if someone grew up in a field filled with only one tree their whole life (not possible but just bear with me) and they looked at that tree and realized that something must have created that tree and therefore something must have created them as well. I believe that person would go to heaven.

 

[Francis]

Well, I don't think they'd go to Hell, but that's not my choice. It depends, really. Peace!

 

[ChristineES]

A mother abandons her new-born baby in a trash-bin. The child grows up in the streets, abused, beaten, mocked, hungry and lonely, never knowing love and affection. As a grown-up he commits several crimes. Once he dies, some religions tell us that he will go to hell, where he is abused, beaten & mocked! Does this seem right?

I believe in a compassionate God. There is a parable that Jesus told about a poor man named Lazarus who starved to death at the gate of a rich man who ignored him. Jesus said that this man, Lazarus, went up to a feat with Abraham, etc. So I don't believe in any physical hell.

 

[JustWondering]

As far as I can tell the only thing waiting for us after death is nothing.

 

[logician]

Religion has had and still needs the carrot and stick method of heaven and hell to get believers in the fold. Scaring people always has been an effective means of influence.

 

[mickiel]

As far as I can tell the only thing waiting for us after death is nothing.

Right, the same nothing that Atheist believe brought humans into existence. From nothing we came, from nothing we will return to. Its the Nothing! The belief that runs through the veins of the Atheist is the Nothing. Nothing ventured before Life, nothing gained after Life.

The total value and future of this belief is nothing, absolute zero!

Peace.

 

[MoonWater]

You assume religion is right.

Where did you get that idea?

Religion has had and still needs the carrot and stick method of heaven and hell to get believers in the fold. Scaring people always has been an effective means of influence.

I really grow weary of these generalizations. Not all religions have a hell concept, indeed very few do, christianity and islam being the main ones. Stop throwing all religions under one umbrella and pretending they're the same because they're not.

 

[Deeje]

I really grow weary of these generalizations. Not all religions have a hell concept, indeed very few do, christianity and islam being the main ones. Stop throwing all religions under one umbrella and pretending they're the same because they're not.

I wish that people would stop assuming that all Christians believe in hell as a place of torture. The Bible does not teach that you have an immortal soul that goes anywhere. It speaks about "sleeping" in death. (Psalm 13:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:13; John 11:11-14) Are we conscious during sleep? Do we have any notion about how long we have been asleep unless we look at a clock? :sleep:

If you invent an immortal soul, you have to invent places for it to go when you die. It was satan who told Eve she wouldn't die...God said she would. Who lied?
The soul is you...you are mortal; when you die, you go 'back to the dust'. (Ezek 18:4) Are you out of existence? YES, for now.
The Bible teaches resurrection NOT immortality. All the resurrections performed in the Bible with the exception of Jesus, were raised back to life on earth. God promises to restore humans back to life after the "new earth" is established. (Acts 24:15, John 5:28,29, 2 Peter 3:13)
Where were the first humans designed to live?....ON EARTH.
Once God has settled the issues raised in Eden, he will bring his first purpose back to where it began. His Kingdom will bring his rulership back to the earth, where it should have been in the first place.
He placed the first humans in a Garden and told them to 'fill the earth' and spread the borders of their paradise home until the whole planet was "subdued". Why would he change his mind as to where he intended us to live? He went to a lot of trouble to make the earth a suitable home for us and his other creations. There is nothing in the scriptures to state that any of that has changed.

The Hebrew word "she'ol" is the equivalent of the Greek word "hades" which is translated "grave" in some translations. It is certainly the destination of those who die, but according to Eccl 9:5, 6, 10, ".... the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."
"All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She&#8242;ol, the place to which you are going."

Psalm 146:4, "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish." In what way does the spirit "go out"...the same way a candle or a light 'goes out'. It is extinguished...it doesn't leave the room. :candle:
If a person's thought processes 'perish', they are gone, inoperative. Their emotions have also ceased...no love, hatred, jealousy etc. What is a person without emotions or thinking ability? He is "sleeping in death."

There are so many beliefs floating about...how is one to know which ones are from God and which are 'smokescreens' from the 'resister'?

To my way of thinking, any religion that teaches that is ok to kill under any circumstance is the wrong one. Corrupt Christianity has sold out on this issue. Jesus said "Happy are the peacemakers" and that "the meek " would "inherit the earth."

There is only one truth..."One Lord, one faith, one baptism"....we are also told to "seek and we shall find." (Eph 4:5, Matt 7:7,8)

Keep knocking people.....:yes:

Peace, Deeje

 

[Father Heathen]

We are judged for what we are culpable for. Period.

Would you pull someone's fingernails clean off with a pair of pliers for a parking violation? Or have someone drawn and quartered for fishing without a license? True justice is when the punishment fits the crime, correct? Now what can any human possibly do that equals in damage to eternal damnation? Seriously, think about it. How could a just and merciful god find torturing the vast majority of the human population for eternity fair, just and necessary? Especially considering the fact that even if they were honest, honorable and compassionate people means nothing and that all that mattered is that they believed in some strange suicide zombie story.

 

[idea]

I believe that hell (AKA outer darkness) is a place where spirits are no longer able to have bodies. They are people who would cause pain to others if they could manipulate matter, so they are simply not given access/control over any matter - in this state they are no longer able to harm anyone. It is merciful and just.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Ah, that explains those things that bump in the night.

Now there's a mature and well reasoned concept.:areyoucra

 

[MoonWater]

I wish that people would stop assuming that all Christians believe in hell as a place of torture. The Bible does not teach that you have an immortal soul that goes anywhere. It speaks about "sleeping" in death. (Psalm 13:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:13; John 11:11-14) Are we conscious during sleep? Do we have any notion about how long we have been asleep unless we look at a clock? :sleep:

umm, I did not make this assumption. I said that Christianity is one of the main religions which holds a concept of hell. But I never said all Christians hold this concept and I am well aware of the fact that many Christians don't hold the concept or at least view the concept very differently from what is considered mainstream.

 

[Riverwolf]

Ah, that explains those things that bump in the night.

Now there's a mature and well reasoned concept.:areyoucra

Weren't you paying attention?

Spirits AREN'T ABLE to interact with the physical environment, according to Idea. That means they don't make things go "bump" in the night.

 

[JMorris]

Religion has had and still needs the carrot and stick method of heaven and hell to get believers in the fold. Scaring people always has been an effective means of influence.

IMO if religion dosent have the carrot, i dont see the point of active participation in the religion. if there is no punishment, then there is no reward. if my indifferent disbelief is treated equally to someone elses faith, then i see no incentive to change. we're both going to end up with the same result either way.

note this is my opinion. if you see the point, then thats fine by me, whatever works and makes you happy.