Confession

[Christina83]

Is the rite of reconciliation, including personal confession into the ear of a priest, as taught by the Catholic Church scriptural?
Can all sins be forgiven?

 

[BruceDLimber]

I'm not aware that it's scriptural, and in any case confession to any human is explicitly forbidden in the Baha'i Faith, which is what I folow!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[horizon_mj1]

Yes, there is quite a bit in the King James Bible on the subject of Confession: CONFESSION OF SIN. A study of what the Bible says about confession of sin. Confession IMO has more to do with the realization of your actions before you act, then Confession would not be needed. It just seems to me that Confession is reserved for someone who did not realize at the time they were in the "wrong" or for those who act for a Greater Purpose, yet still being wrong in action.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

All Anglican services include a public general confession, where we bring to mind our sins.
The link given by horizon mj1 gives more than enough biblical authority to believe this to be necessary.
Confession is part of the dogma of a majority of the protestant churches. Where we differ from the Catholics is that we do not believe priest are a necessary component in confession.

Confession to a priest was not part of the early church dogma.

 

[On_a_Quest]

Is the rite of reconciliation, including personal confession into the ear of a priest, as taught by the Catholic Church scriptural?
Can all sins be forgiven?

Strictly speaking, it's not scriptural. There is no specific passage in the Bible that outlines the guide to making a confession. A big part of the Catholic Church centers around tradition. We consider our traditions to be just as, if not more, important than the scriptures in the Bible. The Rite of Reconciliation is something that every Catholic is supposed to do on a regular basis so that their sins can be forgiven.

All sins can be forgiven. That's one of the big messages of Jesus. If one goes to a priest, confesses ones sins honestly, feels true remorse for one's sins, and does penance (usually assigned by the priest) for the sins, then one is forgiven by God through the priest. The end of every confession is an Absolution of Guilt administered by the priest.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is the rite of reconciliation, including personal confession into the ear of a priest, as taught by the Catholic Church scriptural?
Can all sins be forgiven?

The entire rite isn't spelled out, but there are passages (e.g. Matthew 16:19) that the Catholic Church cites as support for its position about the power of priests to absolve sins.

Most of the things that go along with the rite are either from logical necessity (for instance, a priest can't absolve a sin that he doesn't know about) or derived from principles of good practice (for instance, the requirement for privacy and secrecy).

As I understand it, their position is that the Church's authority in this regard is absolute, however, priests won't absolve sins in certain cases... e.g. where the priest feels that there is no contrition on the part of the penitent.

BTW - something that may be useful to remember is that the Catholic Church makes a distinction between validity, which refers to the aspects that must be present for the sacrament to be efficacious, and licitness, which refers to the aspects that come from Church command or common practice. Many of the trappings of the rite of confession are matters of licitness, not validity. For instance, even though it's a requirement in the Church that confession be secret, if someone eavesdropped on a confessional, this wouldn't render the confession invalid.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Strictly speaking, it's not scriptural. There is no specific passage in the Bible that outlines the guide to making a confession. A big part of the Catholic Church centers around tradition. We consider our traditions to be just as, if not more, important than the scriptures in the Bible. The Rite of Reconciliation is something that every Catholic is supposed to do on a regular basis so that their sins can be forgiven.

All sins can be forgiven. That's one of the big messages of Jesus. If one goes to a priest, confesses ones sins honestly, feels true remorse for one's sins, and does penance (usually assigned by the priest) for the sins, then one is forgiven by God through the priest. The end of every confession is an Absolution of Guilt administered by the priest.

The problem I have with this concept is the arrogance of the Catholic Church believing they are needed to "mediate" between God and Creations. Christ taught how to pray properly so everyone could have their own relationship; who is any "authority" to question this? I have my own relationships, why does anyone feel the need to structure someone else's relationships?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The problem I have with this concept is the arrogance of the Catholic Church believing they are needed to "mediate" between God and Creations. Christ taught how to pray properly so everyone could have their own relationship; who is any "authority" to question this? I have my own relationships, why does anyone feel the need to structure someone else's relationships?

Seeing how the Catholic Church teaches that Christ himself instituted the sacraments and founded the Church, don't you think that from their perspective, you seem to be arguing that you know better than the Son of God? Couldn't that be considered arrogant itself?

 

[On_a_Quest]

The problem I have with this concept is the arrogance of the Catholic Church believing they are needed to "mediate" between God and Creations. Christ taught how to pray properly so everyone could have their own relationship; who is any "authority" to question this? I have my own relationships, why does anyone feel the need to structure someone else's relationships?

That's a great point and I'm somewhat in agreement with you here. I can understand and explain the point of view of the Catholic Church, but I can also explain my own personal beliefs.

From the point of view of the Catholic Church, since people are sinners they need priests and saints to intervene on their behalf. This goes along with the idea of people praying to saints instead of directly to God. Priests are seen as being above the rest of the congregation because during the Eucharist, as I understand it, the priest becomes the embodiment of Jesus/God. It makes priests on a different level and suitable as mediators between the layperson and God. That's what I think the reasoning is.

As to my beliefs, I haven't been to confession since I was confirmed. It seems strange to me to confess your sins to someone in order to be forgiven. I prefer to imagine a more personal and direct relationship with God. However, this isn't really relevant to Christina's question.

 

[waitasec]

confessing to a priest was about the church gaining power over ones internal thoughts...

the mere idea of confession suggests that god doesn't trust ones own sense of regret or responsibility...

 

[horizon_mj1]

Seeing how the Catholic Church teaches that Christ himself instituted the sacraments and founded the Church, don't you think that from their perspective, you seem to be arguing that you know better than the Son of God? Couldn't that be considered arrogant itself?

How so? Because I choose to see what Christ Himself taught, not what other people had to say about Him

 

[waitasec]

How so? Because I choose to see what Christ Himself taught, not what other people had to say about Him

i don't get that... what you seem to be implying is that jesus taught one thing but it is understood in many different ways...and whatever way suits you is the right way.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How so? Because I choose to see what Christ Himself taught, not what other people had to say about Him

How do you decide "what Christ Himself taught"?

And don't the Gospels record Jesus as saying that he would institute a church on Earth? What do you take this to mean? I would think it implies some sort of cohesion between believers, not some arrangement where everyone does their own thing.

 

[On_a_Quest]

i don't get that... what you seem to be implying is that jesus taught one thing but it is understood in many different ways...and whatever way suits you is the right way.

But it is understood in many different ways. That is why Christianity has so many different sects. Protestantism arose because people went back to the Bible (Catholics are notorious for not reading the Bible) and drew their own interpretations from it. Then other Protestant religions arose over time as different groups of people came up with different interpretations of the same book.

 

[waitasec]

But it is understood in many different ways. That is why Christianity has so many different sects. Protestantism arose because people went back to the Bible (Catholics are notorious for not reading the Bible) and drew their own interpretations from it. Then other Protestant religions arose over time as different groups of people came up with different interpretations of the same book.

then christianity is more about convenience.

 

[On_a_Quest]

then christianity is more about convenience.

That's not a fair statement because Christianity isn't exactly one religion. It is a category of many different religions. You can't say that Lutheranism is about convenience or Catholicism is about convenience or Greek Orthodoxy is about convenience. Being Christian doesn't mean changing sects when you feel like it. I would say that most people stick with one set of ideas within Christianity.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

(Catholics are notorious for not reading the Bible)

So are Protestants.

Seriously, though: in my experience, you get more Scripture in a Catholic mass than you do in a typical Protestant Sunday service.

 

[waitasec]

That's not a fair statement because Christianity isn't exactly one religion. It is a category of many different religions.

i think it is fair to say because of what you said

You can't say that Lutheranism is about convenience or Catholicism is about convenience or Greek Orthodoxy is about convenience. Being Christian doesn't mean changing sects when you feel like it. I would say that most people stick with one set of ideas within Christianity.

that is why there are so many interpretations of christianity...it's a subjective way people interpret these ideals.... funny enough where one lives and or family tradition plays an important role of what determines their belief.

but i'm afraid we are derailing the thread...
please feel free to PM me...

 

[horizon_mj1]

i don't get that... what you seem to be implying is that jesus taught one thing but it is understood in many different ways...and whatever way suits you is the right way.

No, what I am saying is that what Jesus said verbatim is what I choose to concentrate on, no what other people perceive (such as the apostles, although I do appreciate the writings for what they are). Whatever way suits you is the right way can be viewed as perception to some; I however yes in fact do define my own path, if this offends you in some way, I will not apologize, nor will I change. Christ taught several "things", He spoke words which were recorded and this is what I choose to focus on; and not to mention the extremely relevant books of the Bible that were conveniently dismissed by the ones who did the translation.

 

[waitasec]

No, what I am saying is that what Jesus said verbatim is what I choose to concentrate on,

are you willing to concede that the gospel writers were not eye witnesses to what jesus said and or did?

but i think i know what you mean, luke 6 says it all...

Whatever way suits you is the right way can be viewed as perception to some; I however yes in fact do define my own path, if this offends you in some way, I will not apologize, nor will I change. Christ taught several "things", He spoke words which were recorded and this is what I choose to focus on; and not to mention the extremely relevant books of the Bible that were conveniently dismissed by the ones who did the translation.

so my question to you is how do you know you have the correct translation?
btw, i'm not offended so long as your religious ideals to not infringe on others freedoms... :rainbow1: