Confirmation of Achintya Bheda abheda tatwa

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

I don't know what this thread is all about, but Saivas believe Lord Siva is the greatest and Vaishnavas believe Lord Vishnu is and nobody can change one's mind about it.

Apu ji had tre right answer some posts back




ekam sat , viprah bahudha vadanti .


eventualy all will realise , and the confines of all minds will be broken down .

I've often told stories out of the Shiva Purana before, but that isn't a trusted source of information (according to Vaishnavas).

there will always be some who refute everything , but these are the children of every faith , it is better we take no notice of the shouting of children they are just paroting what they have heard and do not yet understand .

but these children are not just vaisnava children , children exist everywhere .

I've had Shiva being called a 'demigod', a 'rakshasa' a 'devil' by Hare Krishna people...

simmilarly children shout their ill informed noncence the loudest , but generaly the true adult is not disturbed as having themselves been children once upon a time they understand that eror is a natural part of growing in wisdom .

let us not be disturbed by fools and let us not repeat their words or give them room in our hearts , fools are everywhere it is better we keep our heats pure and not dwell in noncence .

All I know, is that this is a 'Vaishnava thread' and hence why I never responded before....that, and I don't understand what you guys are talking about at the Tantric level.

tantra is merely a path , a method for our own development , but we are all free to choose the path most suited to our own nature , but let us realise that a path is a path , and of paths there are many .

I just let Vaishnavas believe in whatever they like because I have/love Siva and I feel that y'all don't know what you are missing out on....but you'd probably tell me the same.

where you have love of siva each vaisnava (and any of another tradition) has his own understanding and love , there is no one prem , but what ever ones focus prem is equaly sweet .

 

[Vrindavana Das]

The Vaiṣṇava worship Mahādeva as Vaiṣṇava – vaiṣṇanavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ. There is one preceptorial channel, Viṣṇuswāmī saṁpradāya, their original Guru is Mahādeva. He will speak the truth, whether anybody likes it or not.

Once, Pārvati Devi asked Mahādeva, her husband.

Pārvati: I am worshiping you, but all are not. Some are worshiping Brahmā, other demigods, and also Viṣṇu. Therefore, I am at a loss to understand, whose worship is the highest. Please tell me.

Mahādeva:

ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ
viśṇor ārādhanaṁ param
[Padma Purān]

“My dear Devi, although the Vedas recommend worship of demigods, worship of Lord Viṣṇu is the topmost.”

There may be many objects of worship including Brahmā and others. But, the highest is worship of Viṣṇu. He is the Complete Reality. When Pārvati heard this from her Guru, her husband, then she was puzzled. She thought, I am worshiping Mahadeva and he himself is saying that worship of Vishnu is the highest. If anybody worshiping Mahadeva hears this, that person will think that he has committed a mistake. Again she asked.

Pārvati: Is there no worship higher than the worship of Viṣṇu? Is it the highest?
Mahādeva: Yes, there is another worship which is higher than the worship of Viṣṇu.
Pārvati: What is that?

Mahādeva:

tasmāt parataraṁ devi
tadīyānāṁ samarcanam
[Padma Purān]

“O Devi! Higher than the worship of Lord Viṣṇu is the rendering of service to Vaiśnavas, who are related to Lord Viṣṇu.”

When she heard this, Pārvati Devi was satisfied - I am serving a Vaishnava, whose service is the highest.

:namaste

 

[Poeticus]

ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ
viśṇor ārādhanaṁ param
[Padma Purān]

Isn't the padma purANa a vaishNava text?

“My dear Devi, although the Vedas recommend worship of demigods, worship of Lord Viṣṇu is the topmost.”

Ironic...because shrI vishNu is one of those "demigods" worshipped in the Veda-s.

 

[Stormcry]

The Vaiṣṇava worship Mahādeva as Vaiṣṇava – vaiṣṇanavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ. There is one preceptorial channel, Viṣṇuswāmī saṁpradāya, their original Guru is Mahādeva. He will speak the truth, whether anybody likes it or not.

Once, Pārvati Devi asked Mahādeva, her husband.

Pārvati: I am worshiping you, but all are not. Some are worshiping Brahmā, other demigods, and also Viṣṇu. Therefore, I am at a loss to understand, whose worship is the highest. Please tell me.

Mahādeva:

ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ
viśṇor ārādhanaṁ param
[Padma Purān]

“My dear Devi, although the Vedas recommend worship of demigods, worship of Lord Viṣṇu is the topmost.”

There may be many objects of worship including Brahmā and others. But, the highest is worship of Viṣṇu. He is the Complete Reality. When Pārvati heard this from her Guru, her husband, then she was puzzled. She thought, I am worshiping Mahadeva and he himself is saying that worship of Vishnu is the highest. If anybody worshiping Mahadeva hears this, that person will think that he has committed a mistake. Again she asked.

Pārvati: Is there no worship higher than the worship of Viṣṇu? Is it the highest?
Mahādeva: Yes, there is another worship which is higher than the worship of Viṣṇu.
Pārvati: What is that?

Mahādeva:

tasmāt parataraṁ devi
tadīyānāṁ samarcanam
[Padma Purān]

“O Devi! Higher than the worship of Lord Viṣṇu is the rendering of service to Vaiśnavas, who are related to Lord Viṣṇu.”

When she heard this, Pārvati Devi was satisfied - I am serving a Vaishnava, whose service is the highest.

:namaste

Certainly Interpolations done by anti-shiva so called Vaishnawas ! Padma Purana is the biased purana.

Bhagavata Puranas states that there's no any difference between shiva and vishnu and worshipers of both Vishnu and shiva attain that bramhan.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Vaiṣṇava worship Mahādeva as Vaiṣṇava – vaiṣṇanavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ.

Oh, yes. Muslims respect Jesus, and Adam, and Noah, and Jacob, and Abraham, and Solomon, as Muslims. Should Christians thank them?

 

[Vrindavana Das]

Certainly Interpolations done by anti-shiva so called Vaishnawas ! Padma Purana is the biased purana.

Bhagavata Puranas states that there's no any difference between shiva and vishnu and worshipers of both Vishnu and shiva attain that bramhan.

Could you please cite the appropriate verse on this from Bhagavat Purana?

:namaste

 

[Aupmanyav]

Shiva Purana
एष एव परो देवो विश्वकर्मा महेश्वरः |
हृदये संनिविष्टं तं ज्ञात्वैवामृतमश्नुते || 38 ||

Esha eva paro devo vishvakarma Maheshwarah|
Hridaye samnivishtam tam gnatvaivamritamashnute||
This indeed is the superior deity, the constructor of the universe, the great God. After knowing him who is ensconced in the heart, one attains freedom from the mortal world (the cycle of births and deaths).

शिवमेवेश्वरं ज्ञात्वा शांतिमत्यंतमृच्छति || 35 ||
स एव कालो गोप्ता च विश्वस्याधिपतिः प्रभुः |
तं विश्वाधिपतिं ज्ञात्वा मृत्युपाशात्प्रमुच्यते || 36 ||

Shivameshwaram gnatva shantimatyantamrichhati||
sa eva kalo gopta cha vishvasyadhipatih prabhuh|
tam vishwadhipatim gnatva mritupashatpramuchyate||
(One gets extreme peace after knowing that Lord Shiva only is the God.
He indeed is the time, the protector and the head of this universe, the Lord. After knowing him, that head of the universe, one is released from the bonds of death (the cycle of births and deaths).

More at shivamahapurana | Shiva Purana Sara Shreni | Page 2

 

[Poeticus]

ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ
viśṇor ārādhanaṁ param
[Padma Purān]

Isn't the padma purANa a vaishNava text?

Shiva Purana
एष एव परो देवो विश्वकर्मा महेश्वरः |
हृदये संनिविष्टं तं ज्ञात्वैवामृतमश्नुते || 38 ||

शिवमेवेश्वरं ज्ञात्वा शांतिमत्यंतमृच्छति || 35 ||
स एव कालो गोप्ता च विश्वस्याधिपतिः प्रभुः |
तं विश्वाधिपतिं ज्ञात्वा मृत्युपाशात्प्रमुच्यते || 36 ||

Isn't the shiva purANa a shaiva text?

*

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, Shiva Purana is a Shiva text, just as SrimadBhagawat Purana is a Vaishnava text.

"Rudrānām Shankaras chāsmi, vittesho yaksha-rakshasām;
vasūnām pāvakas chāsmi, meruh shikharinām aham." BG 10.23

(Of all the Rudras I am Lord Shiva, of the Yakshas and Rākshasas I am the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am fire (Agni), and of mountains I am Meru.)

If Sri Krishna is Lord Shiva, then what all is this ado about? He Himself said so.

"Shivāya Vishnu rūpāya, Shiva rūpāya Vishnavey,
Shivasya hrudayam Vishnurvishnoshcha hrudayam Shivah."

(Shiva is a form of Vishnu, Vishnu is a form of Shiva,
Vishnu is in the heart of Shiva, Shiva is in the heart of Vishnu)

 

[Aupmanyav]

"(ii) Rudra, Father of the Universe:

The RV 6.49.10 calls Rudra as " The Father of the Universe". (bhuvanasya pitarah)

भुवनस्य पितरं गीर्भिराभी रुद्रं दिवा वर्धया रुद्रमक्तौ |
बर्हन्तं रष्वमजरं सुषुम्नं रधग घुवेम कविनेषितासः ||

bhuvanasya pitaram ghīrbhirābhī rudram divā vardhayā rudramaktau |
barhantam rashvamajaram sushumnam radhagh ghuvema kavine****āsah ||

'Rudra by day, Rudra at night we honour with these our songs, the Father of Universe. Him great and lofty, blissful, undecaying let us call specially as the Sage impels us

(iii) The RV 2.33.9 calls Rudra as "The Lord or Sovereign of the Universe" (īśānādasya bhuvanasya)

सथिरेभिरङगैः पुरुरूप उग्रो बभ्रुः शुक्रेभिः पिपिशेहिरण्यैः |
ईशानादस्य भुवनस्य भूरेर्न वा उ योषद रुद्रादसुर्यम ||

'sthirebhiranghaih pururūpa ugro babhruh śukrebhih pipiśehiranyaih |
īśānādasya bhuvanasya bhūrerna vā u yoshad rudrādasuryam ||'

'With firm limbs, multiform, the strong, the tawny adorns himself with bright gold decorations; the strength of Godhead never departs from Rudra, him who is Sovereign of this world, the mighty.'"
C. Sri Vidya Rajagopalan in Hinduism::Who is greater in Shiva, Vishnu or Shakti? Why? - Yahoo Answers India

 

[Aupmanyav]

Once Lord Vishnu got angry with Sri Lakshmi and sent her to Bhūloka (Earth). Realizing that none other than Shiva can help her to calm Vishnu, she immediately does a tapas for Him and Shiva appears to save her. Lakshmi says “You and Vishnu are both same, the Paramātma. Please help me!”. Shiva says “Sundari! How do you know that we both are same? All learned people know that. Who told you?” Lakshmi says, “Once Mahavishnu Himself told me this. Seeing Him in deep Daiva-dhyānam, I asked Him “During Samudramanthanam, I thought you were the greatest of all and hence chose you. Devādhideva! Who is better than you that you are in dhyānam of Him?”. Mahavishnu replied “I am doing Shankara-dhyānam. He is Ishwara. He is the same as Me. All learned people know that. If someone is my devotee but still hates Shiva, he will fall into naraka”.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/forum/topics/both-shiva-and-vishnu-are-same
(Kindly read this. I think all your doubts will disappear)

 

[ratikala]

namaskaramHLK :namaste

Certainly Interpolations done by anti-shiva so called Vaishnawas ! Padma Purana is the biased purana.

Bhagavata Puranas states that there's no any difference between shiva and vishnu and worshipers of both Vishnu and shiva attain that bramhan.

I beg you please , please , stop this divisive behavior , holding and propogating such veiws is detremental and potentialy damaging to your own sadhana , and that of others .

such is the nature of kaliyuga that you will meet fools everywhere , but if you meet with a fool do not repeat his words .

no vaisnava I have ever met is ''ANTI'' shiva , shiv ji is highly respected as equal to Brahma and Visnu , ....infact yes I agree with others here ''all are one ''


if we use some inteligence it is not difficult to see that it is only natural that a vaisnava give prefference to visnu and for a siva to give preference to shiv ji , ...that does not nececarily mean that a vaisnava is ''anti -shiva'' .

every text has a different focus this is only natural can we not respect this ?

quote Aupmanyav....
Once Lord Vishnu got angry with Sri Lakshmi and sent her to Bhūloka (Earth). Realizing that none other than Shiva can help her to calm Vishnu, she immediately does a tapas for Him and Shiva appears to save her. Lakshmi says “You and Vishnu are both same, the Paramātma. Please help me!”. Shiva says “Sundari! How do you know that we both are same? All learned people know that. Who told you?” Lakshmi says, “Once Mahavishnu Himself told me this. Seeing Him in deep Daiva-dhyānam, I asked Him “During Samudramanthanam, I thought you were the greatest of all and hence chose you. Devādhideva! Who is better than you that you are in dhyānam of Him?”. Mahavishnu replied “I am doing Shankara-dhyānam. He is Ishwara. He is the same as Me. All learned people know that. If someone is my devotee but still hates Shiva, he will fall into naraka”.
http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/foru...ishnu-are-same
(Kindly read this. I think all your doubts will disappear)

thank you Aupmanyav for your beautifull post .

 

[Aupmanyav]

Harihara

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Don't worry so much even if Gods not real, IT is still real afterall that is how Buddhists happen.

Brahman does not require faith because Brahman cannot be reduced by a lack of thought. When the mind is silent Brahman is still there(as opposed to all its modifications which seem to disappear when a mind quits moveing all is the Brahman.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram prabhu ji's :namaste

we have strayed of toppic just a little , .. but whilst we are recounting stories about vashnava acceptance of shiv ji , prehaps we should remember ....


The 'Mahabarata' , ... Vana Parva ...ch 7 Pasupata .

at Vyaasa's bidding Arjuna had left his brothers and Draupadi in the forest to jorney into the Hymavan to perform penances to Lord Shankara , Indra had promiced to give Arjuna all of his divine Astras but had told Arjuna that he must first please Lord Shankara and obtain his Pasupata , ....Arjuna set off intent on performing this duty gaining the blessing of lord Shankara and returning to fullfill his dharma .....high in the mountains Arjuna set about performing penance , and whilst he was deep in trance a wild boar attacked him , ...angered by the boars attack Arjuna raised his bow to kill the animal , as Arjuna aimed and let loose his arrow a hunter also apeared and took aim at the boar their arrows hitting the animal at the same time and spliting the boar in half , Arjuna furious with the hunter turned to him and admonished him for shooting at the same target saying that the boar had attacked him therfore it was his duty to kill the boar and that the hunter shot out of turn and that this was not in accordance with correct protocol , angry with the hunter a fight broke out , but even with all his strength and prowess arjuna could not beat this hunter who seemed un touched by his arrows .
Arjuna chalenged the hunter to an un armed fight but still Arjuna could not defeat the hunter and eventualy weakened and fell into a faint , Arjuna being very distressed at this ocurrance and the disruption to his tapasya began to pray to Lord Shankara , he made a garland from the wild mountain flowers and a linga from the earth, and placed the garland upon it praying to Lord Shankara for the strenght to defeat this foe , when Arjuna raised his eyes from his prayer he saw the garland upon the head of the hunter , realising imidiately the hunter to be Shankara ji Arjuna fell at his feet washing them with his tears of joy , Shankara ji comended his bravery and valor and raising Arjuna from his feet granted him his blessings . Arjuna beged Shankara ji for forgiveness and beged to see him in his true form .
Shankara ji granted Arjuna this boon , and giving Arjuna the divine Pasupata instructed Arjuna with its incantation , with great joy and deepest respect Arjuna bowed in gratitude and as he had miraculously apeared the Lord departed .....

thus ends the seventh chapter .....

so stunned and exhilarated was Arjuna that he could not overcome his joy , ...and as he sat reflecting upon the great blessing which had just been bestowed upon him a briliant light appeared the effulgence of all of the gods who had come to shower their blessings , Varuna , Kubera , Yama and Indra each granting their blessings and bestowing their divine astras .......


we should not forget that without all of the gods ther would be no mahabarata and no gita , each play their part and that is how we should recognise it to be .