Conscience: Simple, Powerful, Infallible

[joe1776]

There will be a very quick change of everything we have ever experience on a day called the day of the Lord. The earth below your feet will start shaking violently and in one hour, everything on earth will be destroyed. Then created men will start experiencing peaceful images and thoughts within their individual minds.

I need evidence to accept your claim.

 

[joe1776]

I'm not big on calling anything infallible for starters. It is possible to overthink issues rendering one incapable of moving forward due to unlimited consequences of our actions. Moral guidance? Who decides, for me, what is moral and what is not? You? Are you pretending that we will arrive at the same moral perspective? Seriously?

If you only have one moral authority, on what basis can you consider it fallible?

Your conscience will guide you. My conscience will guide me. On the very same moral specific question -- on hearing the facts in the case in which Sally kills Harry but pleads justifiable self-defense -- we will agree unless one of us holds a bias.

 

[eldios]

I need evidence to accept your claim.

I don't care if you accept the knowledge of God that I write or speak. Knowledge is invisible so it's about belief. How do I show you what a formed word or thought is in my mind unless I type it into a sentence like this or speak those words to you? That's the only visible evidence you will ever get from my mind that is totally invisible to you.

Do you have any evidence for the thoughts and images that form in your mind?

 

[Polymath257]

If you only have one moral authority, on what basis can you consider it fallible?

Your conscience will guide you. My conscience will guide me. On the very same moral specific question -- on hearing the facts in the case in which Sally kills Harry but pleads justifiable self-defense -- we will agree unless one of us holds a bias.

Clearly false. Conscience is learned, not native. It is promoted by society and parents, not internal and objective.

At one time, the conscience of many was offended by interracial marriage. Now it is not.

At one time, the conscience of many accepted slavery. Now it is more rare.

At one time, the conscience of most thought women to be inferior. No longer is this the case.

Conscience is a supremely fallible and malleable basis for morality.

 

[joe1776]

Polymath comments in bold.

Clearly false. Conscience is learned, not native. It is promoted by society and parents, not internal and objective.

No, that's a popular myth. We can debate it if you are interested. Fair warning: I have science on my side.

According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality. A deep sense of good and evil is bred in the bone. His research shows that babies and toddlers can judge the goodness and badness of others' actions; they want to reward the good and punish the bad; they act to help those in distress; they feel guilt, shame, pride, and righteous anger.


At one time, the conscience of many was offended by interracial marriage. Now it is not.
At one time, the conscience of many accepted slavery. Now it is more rare.
At one time, the conscience of most thought women to be inferior. No longer is this the case.

All three of the above statements make the same error. You are blaming conscience when the problem was a bias (the arrogance bias most likely) which a process involving a serious examination of conscience, one mind at a time, is resolving.

When humanity makes moral progress, conscience is the mechanism for change.

 

[james bond]

Polymath comments in bold.

Clearly false. Conscience is learned, not native. It is promoted by society and parents, not internal and objective.

No, that's a popular myth. We can debate it if you are interested. Fair warning: I have science on my side.

According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality. A deep sense of good and evil is bred in the bone. His research shows that babies and toddlers can judge the goodness and badness of others' actions; they want to reward the good and punish the bad; they act to help those in distress; they feel guilt, shame, pride, and righteous anger.


At one time, the conscience of many was offended by interracial marriage. Now it is not.
At one time, the conscience of many accepted slavery. Now it is more rare.
At one time, the conscience of most thought women to be inferior. No longer is this the case.

All three of the above statements make the same error. You are blaming conscience when the problem was a bias (the arrogance bias most likely) which a process involving a serious examination of conscience, one mind at a time, is resolving.

When humanity makes moral progress, conscience is the mechanism for change.

Thank you. It looks like someone was wrong again.

 

[james bond]

I would propose that the biggest question to pose to our conscience is that of war. If the conscience is just a construct of our brain and that our decisions have been pre-determined (in my lifetime and being American, every POTUS has led us into war (armed conflict)), then war is that which is inevitable. We should be able to engage in war at any time and any place based on determinism. Nuclear weapons, biological weapons and chemical weapons are fair game. Let's just nuke nations out of existence based on determinism.

 

[joe1776]

I would propose that the biggest question to pose to our conscience is that of war. If the conscience is just a construct of our brain and that our decisions have been pre-determined (in my lifetime and being American, every POTUS has led us into war (armed conflict)), then war is that which is inevitable. We should be able to engage in war at any time and any place based on determinism. Nuclear weapons, biological weapons and chemical weapons are fair game. Let's just nuke nations out of existence based on determinism.

Adolf Hitler was primarily responsible for the Second World War. He led his German people by ranting repeatedly on three themes:

Our nation is superior to theirs!
Our race is superior to theirs!
Our religion is superior to theirs!

I see arrogance as the common denominator and it comes with its constant companion, arrogant entitlement. Hitler told his people that as members of a master race, they were entitled to take living space (lebensraum) by force from their neighbors in Easter Europe.

My bet is that arrogance is the root cause of war and any other reason given is likely to be pretext.

 

[james bond]

Adolf Hitler was primarily responsible for the Second World War. He led his German people by ranting repeatedly on three themes:

Our nation is superior to theirs!
Our race is superior to theirs!
Our religion is superior to theirs!

I see arrogance as the common denominator and it comes with its constant companion, arrogant entitlement. Hitler told his people that as members of a master race, they were entitled to take living space (lebensraum) by force from their neighbors in Easter Europe.

My bet is that arrogance is the root cause of war and any other reason given is likely to be pretext.

I would agree except my bet is on selfishness.

 

[YmirGF]

If you only have one moral authority, on what basis can you consider it fallible?

Your conscience will guide you. My conscience will guide me. On the very same moral specific question -- on hearing the facts in the case in which Sally kills Harry but pleads justifiable self-defense -- we will agree unless one of us holds a bias.

What you are saying is rubbish. And why would we agree?

 

[joe1776]

I would agree except my bet is on selfishness.

Oh, there's no doubt we humans are selfish creatures. But, arrogant behavior produces dumb selfishness. However, the axiom "we serve ourselves best when we serve others" is a smart selfish way to live.

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Nothing is infallible.

 

[Nietzsche]

Adolf Hitler was primarily responsible for the Second World War. He led his German people by ranting repeatedly on three themes:

Our nation is superior to theirs!
Our race is superior to theirs!
Our religion is superior to theirs!

Nothing is ever that simple. Hitler's platform was more along the lines of "Return Germany to world-power status by any means necessary". The notion that he believed just Germany and Germans to be superior is also a falsehood. He seized Denmark and Norway for more than strategic reasons. This was because he hoped to introduce more "pure Nordic" blood into Germany. All of it utterly insane, but your simplifications are part of the reason Hitler got as much power as he did. People assumed he just wanted land and wealth. So they gave it to him and expected that to be the end of it.

It wasn't. Hitler wasn't greedy, it was just that he was far more "idealistic"(I'm not sure how else to say it) than anyone wanted to believe.

I see arrogance as the common denominator and it comes with its constant companion, arrogant entitlement. Hitler told his people that as members of a master race, they were entitled to take living space (lebensraum) by force from their neighbors in Easter Europe.

My bet is that arrogance is the root cause of war and any other reason given is likely to be pretext.

Arrogance? No. You don't murder tens of millions just because you're arrogant. Kaiser Wilhelm was arrogant. Arrogance knows when to bow out. You kill that many people and then yourself because you genuinely believe you're right.

 

[Tony L Smith]

Yes, as I said I believe in God, and I will add that yes, I believe in the Baha'i Faith, universal consciousness, and the long term goals of the Baha'i Faith.

I also keep both feet on the ground and do not try to manipulate the objective evidence to justify my beliefs.

Conscience is an feeling of whats right or wrong

 

[Tony L Smith]

Conscience is an feeling of whats right or wrong

Sorry I wasn't trying to address one person. Unfamiliar with what the buttons do.

 

[shunyadragon]

Conscience is an feeling of whats right or wrong

A little too simplistic, but ok. The problem is that the conscience among and between fallible humans is decidedly diverse and inconsistent throughout history.

 

[Tony L Smith]

Conscience is the feeling or belief about whats right or wrong in a situation, while consciousness is the very realm we live in, it is what holds our personal world in its present form.
In this world we are living in God's consciousness combined with the combined consciousness of everyone living and even those which have passed.
I am conscious of what I believe, and nothing else. To change my experience I must change my consciousness, for it is my faith substance.

 

[Tony L Smith]

A little too simplistic, but ok. The problem is that the conscience among and between fallible humans is decidedly diverse and inconsistent throughout history.

Agreed, my conscience is only determined by what I am conscious of which is what I really believe. It doesn't mean its right or even healthy
The River knows,

 

[Polymath257]

Polymath comments in bold.

Clearly false. Conscience is learned, not native. It is promoted by society and parents, not internal and objective.

No, that's a popular myth. We can debate it if you are interested. Fair warning: I have science on my side.

According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality. A deep sense of good and evil is bred in the bone. His research shows that babies and toddlers can judge the goodness and badness of others' actions; they want to reward the good and punish the bad; they act to help those in distress; they feel guilt, shame, pride, and righteous anger.


At one time, the conscience of many was offended by interracial marriage. Now it is not.
At one time, the conscience of many accepted slavery. Now it is more rare.
At one time, the conscience of most thought women to be inferior. No longer is this the case.

All three of the above statements make the same error. You are blaming conscience when the problem was a bias (the arrogance bias most likely) which a process involving a serious examination of conscience, one mind at a time, is resolving.

When humanity makes moral progress, conscience is the mechanism for change.

One person's conscience is another person's bias. There is no consistency here. No infallibility. Too bad.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Conscience is an feeling of whats right or wrong

Yes. It's more associated with empathy than anything else.