Consciousness is Relative

[Neutral Name]

Conscious enough to respond to questions here on RF. That counts doesn't it?

.

Absolutely!

 

[Willamena]

The very fact that you can see this post and agree or disagree proves it. This is the starting point for non realism. Do any of you want to dispute the point that consciousness is relative?

Relative to what?

 

[Willamena]

Are you seeing this?

Yes, I am seeing the content of consciousness.

 

[Willamena]

And consciousness is made up of what?

Nothing but content.

 

[Willamena]

Can you see this post?

I get the feeling you are using "relative" to mean something else.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Relative to what?

Right now? Me.

 

[Willamena]

Right now? Me.

And at other times?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

And at other times?

I wasn't there when it happened

 

[Willamena]

I wasn't there when it happened

So... something happened, and you were either there or not, but if you were there, you were relative to …. consciousness?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

So... something happened, and you were either there or not, but if you were there, you were relative to …. consciousness?

Did someone see me do it?

 

[Willamena]

Did someone see me do it?

I dunno… did they?

 

[robocop (actually)]

The very fact that you can see this post and agree or disagree proves it. This is the starting point for non realism. Do any of you want to dispute the point that consciousness is relative?

Consciousness does not imply choice.

In my second book I implied the following:

"I just said basically in Flatland that if you connect up thoughts to be a thought thinking it is aware of itself and thinking what it does it is consciousness."

 

[Howard Is]

Thanks, I have bookmarked Dr. Lily. Drugs and isolation chambers can create other forms of consciousness but I don't think they necessarily can explain all forms.

I doubt there is an explanation.

It wasn’t just the use of LSD that characterised Lilly. Those experiments involved preparation of subjects with hypnotic induction prior to the session ( 500 micrograms in an isolation/float chamber) . The hypnotic inductions were used to build specific kinds of belief systems. Then the subjects experiences were analysed in relation to those induced belief systems.

Lilly was attempting to bring the scientific method into exploring the relationship of belief and forms of consciousness.

 

[Neutral Name]

I doubt there is an explanation.

It wasn’t just the use of LSD that characterised Lilly. Those experiments involved preparation of subjects with hypnotic induction prior to the session ( 500 micrograms in an isolation/float chamber) . The hypnotic inductions were used to build specific kinds of belief systems. Then the subjects experiences were analysed in relation to those induced belief systems.

Lilly was attempting to bring the scientific method into exploring the relationship of belief and forms of consciousness.

Very cool!

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

The very fact that you can see this post and agree or disagree proves it. This is the starting point for non realism. Do any of you want to dispute the point that consciousness is relative?

I don't wish to contest the point, but I wish to ask, do you believe the process of consciousness is relative to the qualia of consciousness?

 

[osgart]

There's a real you in there! And regardless of anyone else being, you are still there!

Consciousness is non relative until you make a relative expression.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

There's a real you in there! And regardless of anyone else being, you are still there!

Consciousness is non relative until you make a relative expression.

What do you mean by "real"? Consciousness is a recursive process. Giving it a label doesn't make it real. There is no static thing that can be grasped or discovered. Every 60 milliseconds there is a flash of consciousness that arrives from the pre-material level of the universe and hits the material threshold collapsing the waveform and like a videotape we perceive the world as continuous but it is not. We miss far more than we perceive. We miss 59 milliseconds of every 60. Doesn't this mean that "real" is a relative concept too?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I don't wish to contest the point, but I wish to ask, do you believe the process of consciousness is relative to the qualia of consciousness?

You mean like sense data and stuff like that?

 

[osgart]

What do you mean by "real"? Consciousness is a recursive process. Giving it a label doesn't make it real. There is no static thing that can be grasped or discovered. Every 60 milliseconds there is a flash of consciousness that arrives from the pre-material level of the universe and hits the material threshold collapsing the waveform and like a videotape we perceive the world as continuous but it is not. We miss far more than we perceive. We miss 59 milliseconds of every 60. Doesn't this mean that "real" is a relative concept too?

Whether i am aware or unaware, i am still existent. And no i cannot be aware of everything, but am usually aware of something. I do not flicker on and off. When i am totally unconscious i still exist.

I do think the senses reflect an accurate representation of reality regardless of how much we miss.

I am witness to my own reality. A feeling of constant pain will let you know that there is reality. And i have such pain, and it reminds me. Lol.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

You mean like sense data and stuff like that?

Not necessarily. Our senses report qualia, but the stone deep within the earth that nobody sees and will never be seen has qualia. Qualia is also pre-material as well as material.