Conservatism, liberalism and radicalism.

[Tomef]

I read somewhere that radicalism, not liberalism, is the enemy of conservatism. Liberalism is antithetical to conservatism, though, and there are both liberal and conservative radicals.

Leaving out the radical elements, for example cancel culture as a radical arm of liberalism, and fascism of conservatism, what are the two political philosophies defined by?

In my understanding, conservatism is fundamentally about defending the existing social order (whatever that order might be in any given place at any given time), and liberalism about seeking to change it. Conservatives look for order and stability, liberals distrust established order and seek to subvert and reform it.

One of the best comparative contrasts I’ve come across in literature is in Jack Kerouac’s The Town and The City, if anyone else here has read it. As per the title, small town and city life are compared; the town represents the dependable solidity of unchanging community, and the city free expression and self discovery (etc). What makes it so useful is that the book is neither a polemic nor Pollyanna-ish about either way of being. In that spirit, please avoid statements about which is the ‘best’ way of thinking, I’m interested here in definitions. What is conservatism, and what is liberalism, with the most radical examples removed.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As per the title, small town and city life are compared, the town represents the dependable solidity of unchanging community, ...

The problem, of course, is that "the dependable solidity of unchanging community" can have far more than one dimension. It can mean safe and supportive Community and/or Community immune to integration, immigration, and Pride parades.

 

[Revoltingest]

One can be radically liberal, or radically conservative.
The status quo has multiple directions that radicals
can steer it from.

 

[Tomef]

The problem, of course, is that "the dependable solidity of unchanging community" can have far more than one dimension. It can mean safe and supportive Community and/or Community immune to integration, immigration, and Pride parades.

Yes, that’s where the interplay of the two ways of thinking can be useful, if those involved have at least some interest in improving society. I think it’s possible to envision an inclusive, conservative, society, once/if inclusiveness becomes well enough established through pressure and agitation from the more liberal-minded.

 

[Tomef]

One can be radically liberal, or radically conservative.

Yes, I’m more interested in this thread in getting into the underlying definitions, leaving out the radical elements.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I’m more interested in this thread in getting into the underlying definitions, leaving out the radical elements.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

 

[Tomef]

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Yeah, I can look in the dictionary. I’m interested in hearing what people have to say about it though, otherwise I wouldn’t have created the thread.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, I can look in the dictionary. I’m interested in hearing what people have to say about it though, otherwise I wouldn’t have created the thread.

You objected to my saying it.
You solicited a definition.
I gave you one.
Again, objection.

 

[Tomef]

You objected to my saying it.
You solicited a definition.
I gave you one.
Again, objection.

Right, well done.

What are your thoughts on what defines conservatism and liberalism, leaving out the more radical elements, as per the OP?

 

[Nakosis]

I read somewhere that radicalism, not liberalism, is the enemy of conservatism. Liberalism is antithetical to conservatism, though, and there are both liberal and conservative radicals.

Leaving out the radical elements, for example cancel culture as a radical arm of liberalism, and fascism of conservatism, what are the two political philosophies defined by?

In my understanding, conservatism is fundamentally about defending the existing social order (whatever that order might be in any given place at any given time), and liberalism about seeking to change it. Conservatives look for order and stability, liberals distrust established order and seek to subvert and reform it.

One of the best comparative contrasts I’ve come across in literature is in Jack Kerouac’s The Town and The City, if anyone else here has read it. As per the title, small town and city life are compared; the town represents the dependable solidity of unchanging community, and the city free expression and self discovery (etc). What makes it so useful is that the book is neither a polemic nor Pollyanna-ish about either way of being. In that spirit, please avoid statements about which is the ‘best’ way of thinking, I’m interested here in definitions. What is conservatism, and what is liberalism, with the most radical examples removed.

Ok, conservatism,

Family, freedom over security, small government, independence.

Liberalism, Family is not a priority, security over freedom, larger government, inter-dependence.

Radicalism, Just wanting to be unique. Not wanting any other authority than their own idealism being supreme.

 

[crossfire]

I read somewhere that radicalism, not liberalism, is the enemy of conservatism. Liberalism is antithetical to conservatism, though, and there are both liberal and conservative radicals.

Leaving out the radical elements, for example cancel culture as a radical arm of liberalism, and fascism of conservatism, what are the two political philosophies defined by?

In my understanding, conservatism is fundamentally about defending the existing social order (whatever that order might be in any given place at any given time), and liberalism about seeking to change it. Conservatives look for order and stability, liberals distrust established order and seek to subvert and reform it.

One of the best comparative contrasts I’ve come across in literature is in Jack Kerouac’s The Town and The City, if anyone else here has read it. As per the title, small town and city life are compared; the town represents the dependable solidity of unchanging community, and the city free expression and self discovery (etc). What makes it so useful is that the book is neither a polemic nor Pollyanna-ish about either way of being. In that spirit, please avoid statements about which is the ‘best’ way of thinking, I’m interested here in definitions. What is conservatism, and what is liberalism, with the most radical examples removed.

In a nutshell: conservatives are more hierarchical and tolerate (and even encourage and enforce) social inequality, whereas liberals are more egalitarian and resist social inequality.

 

[Left Coast]

I read somewhere that radicalism, not liberalism, is the enemy of conservatism. Liberalism is antithetical to conservatism, though, and there are both liberal and conservative radicals.

Leaving out the radical elements, for example cancel culture as a radical arm of liberalism, and fascism of conservatism, what are the two political philosophies defined by?

In my understanding, conservatism is fundamentally about defending the existing social order (whatever that order might be in any given place at any given time), and liberalism about seeking to change it. Conservatives look for order and stability, liberals distrust established order and seek to subvert and reform it.

One of the best comparative contrasts I’ve come across in literature is in Jack Kerouac’s The Town and The City, if anyone else here has read it. As per the title, small town and city life are compared; the town represents the dependable solidity of unchanging community, and the city free expression and self discovery (etc). What makes it so useful is that the book is neither a polemic nor Pollyanna-ish about either way of being. In that spirit, please avoid statements about which is the ‘best’ way of thinking, I’m interested here in definitions. What is conservatism, and what is liberalism, with the most radical examples removed.

The terms 'conservatism' and 'liberalism' have both changed over time and also differ between countries.

American conservatism has traditionally been characterized, ironically, by the values we'd now call 'classical liberalism': individualism, freedom of speech/religion, capitalism, etc. Modern American 'liberalism' adapts classically liberal ideas and attempts to integrate them with leftist/socialist ideas: state control over the economy, critical theory, populism, and so on.

Depending on the issue or political context, either liberals or conservatives can argue in favor of maintenance of the status quo or changing it.

 

[Regiomontanus]

...

In my understanding, conservatism is fundamentally about defending the existing social order (whatever that order might be in any given place at any given time), ...

Not to be too nit picky here but "any given time" is a bit problematic. Sometimes, IMHO, it is the radicals that are the ones who need to re-establish the conservative tradition.

 

[Tomef]

"any given time" is a bit problematic

How do you mean?

The thinking behind that was that conservatives (and liberals) exist in every era, and the conservatives in general tend to aim at maintaining the social norms of that period.

 

[Tomef]

security over freedom

That’s an interesting one. I’ve tended to think that liberals value exploration, experiment, extending possibilities etc over security. I think those behaviours require freedom.

 

[Revoltingest]

Right, well done.

What are your thoughts on what defines conservatism and liberalism, leaving out the more radical elements, as per the OP?

In the USA context, cons are more theocratic, more socially
conservative, pro big government, less the fan of civil rights.
Liberals are less theocratic, less socially conservative, pro
big government, slightly more the fan of civil rights.

 

[Regiomontanus]

How do you mean?

The thinking behind that was that conservatives (and liberals) exist in every era, and the conservatives in general tend to aim at maintaining the social norms of that period.

I agree, but how long of a period? Context matters is all I am saying, and who defines what is conservative.

 

[Regiomontanus]

In the USA context, cons are more theocratic, more socially
conservative, pro big government, less the fan of civil rights.
Liberals are less theocratic, less socially conservative, pro
big government, slightly more the fan of civil rights.

You deftly express the reasons we need a third way; I really think that, increasingly, more people are not happy with those labels/expectations.

 

[Heyo]

I read somewhere that radicalism, not liberalism, is the enemy of conservatism. Liberalism is antithetical to conservatism, though, and there are both liberal and conservative radicals.

Leaving out the radical elements, for example cancel culture as a radical arm of liberalism, and fascism of conservatism, what are the two political philosophies defined by?

In my understanding, conservatism is fundamentally about defending the existing social order (whatever that order might be in any given place at any given time), and liberalism about seeking to change it. Conservatives look for order and stability, liberals distrust established order and seek to subvert and reform it.

One of the best comparative contrasts I’ve come across in literature is in Jack Kerouac’s The Town and The City, if anyone else here has read it. As per the title, small town and city life are compared; the town represents the dependable solidity of unchanging community, and the city free expression and self discovery (etc). What makes it so useful is that the book is neither a polemic nor Pollyanna-ish about either way of being. In that spirit, please avoid statements about which is the ‘best’ way of thinking, I’m interested here in definitions. What is conservatism, and what is liberalism, with the most radical examples removed.

Liberalism and conservatism are not opposites, they are not even on the same axis.
Conservatism is the middle position between progressivism and regressivisim. In short, conservatives want to stay where they are, progressives want to go to the future and regressives want to go to the past.
Translated to US politics, the democrats are conservatives, the republicans are regressives and progressives are the protesters in the street, no political party is listening to.

 

[Nakosis]

That’s an interesting one. I’ve tended to think that liberals value exploration, experiment, extending possibilities etc over security. I think those behaviours require freedom.

I see liberals as wanting more security to express themselves.