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Conservative Christians Persecuted in the US?

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Nah, libertarians vote republican.

Then explain why someone who is socially liberal and supports personal freedom and the separation of church and state would vote for socially conservative candidates who oppose both?

I'm not a fan of the libertarian platform wanting to privatize everything. The Kochroaches are libertarians. Additionally, I don't think public schools should be shut down.

Not every libertarian wants to privatize *everything* and shut down anything public. To be a libertarian simply means to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Just like any other political leaning, you have moderates and then you have the more extreme end. And not every libertarian is a Libertarian, just like not every liberal is a Democrat nor is every conservative a Republican.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Then explain why someone who is socially liberal and supports personal freedom and the separation of church and state would vote for socially conservative candidates who oppose both?

Not every libertarian wants to privatize *everything* and shut down anything public. To be a libertarian simply means to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Just like any other political leaning, you have moderates and then you have the more extreme end. And not every libertarian is a Libertarian, just like not every liberal is a Democrat nor is every conservative a Republican.
This had to be said.
Thank you for taking the high road which I abandoned for some mischief.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
I would say "scrutiny" rather persecution.

I don't know of any faction of society that isn't facing lots of scrutiny nowadays. Back in say the 1990's, I started noticing certain scrutiny that I hadn't seen before (i.e. healthcare providers), but now I honestly can't think of a faction/aspect of civilized society that gets zero scrutiny.

I do think Christians in America get more scrutiny than other religion in America, but likely that's due to there being more of them, longer historical (and cultural) items that many feel need to be overcome/resisted and that other popular religions scream some form of bigotry that weak intellectual types cower at when that card is played.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I see plenty of abuse of conservative Christians on this forum!!
And yet who wants to deny rights and quote scripture about killing homosexuals? Which "side" claims others are going to hell, are perverted, mentally ill, infantile, or many of the other insults I've seen a number of far-right Conservative Christians throw at groups like homosexuals or atheists? There are some that launch their own assaults against those types, but I hardly see the abusive language aimed at those types of Christians than what I've seen coming from them. Laika was dead on in what he said, and such things do fuel much of their beliefs they are being persecuted, but we can't let them run the show over their hurt feelings. They aren't being persecuted, they're just being told they can't run the show because it's only fair to them if we do.
It must be pretty scary for Christians in a way to be part of a society where homosexuality is acceptable, pornography is widely available even to children on the Internet, the news shows Islamic Fundamentalists commuting acts of terrorism and you can't say "merry Christmas" without provoking claims to violating the establishment clause. I don't agree with them (look at China or North Korea for actual persecution), but I appreciate the sense of vulnerability.
It is. They view the world going to sin, walking into the arms of the Devil, and all these temptations and sins we have everywhere that we aren't think of as sinful. A good deal of them probably even loathe Facebook overuse as much as I do, but for very different reasons, with their reason being it's distracting people from god and exposing them to and desensitizing them to sin. Gay marriage being legal probably does make them feel backed into a corner, but it's only because of their holding on to centuries of tradition with the church being able to call the shots legally. Politically they are being attacked, and they are loosing, but socially there are isolated incidents and annoying people like Bill Maher or Dawkins "teeth and claws" (as described by Tyson). But one of the first things I realized after abandoning the church is that there just is no widespread discrimination, persecution, or assaults being launched against them.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I found the word "persecution" to be an insult to people who are truly persecuted these days. I do, however, realize that perception is a huge factor in what makes people feel as though they're being mistreated. It's incredibly frustrating to have a conversation with such people though, as they can't let go of the martyr syndrome they hold so dear.
 

Karl R

Active Member
Open to hearing how Christians are being persecuted, though.
In the words of some who believe they are being persecuted for their Christian beliefs:
“The Jew lawyers and judges of Temple Beth Sholom bastardize and prostitute the legal system to maliciously prosecute and persecute innocent Westboro Baptists, just as their Jewish ancestors manipulated the Roman legal system to torture and crucify the Lord Jesus Christ and persecute His disciples. The Jew psychiatrists and other shyster brain-washers of Temple Beth Sholom write columns and conduct seminars to vilify and slander innocent Westboro Baptists, just as their scribes, Rabbis, Pharisees and Sadducees did to the Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples in Bible days…The Jews of Temple Beth Sholom are sinful, greedy, Hell-bound, money-grubbing sodomites; and they have dedicated their synagogue to be a gay and lesbian propaganda mill and recruiting depot, soliciting young people to sodomy.”
-- Westboro Baptist Church news release, September 7, 1996

“Whatever righteous cause the Jewish victims of the 1930s-40s Nazi Holocaust had, (probably miniscule, compared to the Jewish Holocausts against Middle Passage Blacks, African Americans and Christians -- including the bloody persecution of Westboro Baptist Church by Topeka Jews in the 1990s), has been drowned in sodomite semen. American taxpayers are financing this unholy monument to Jewish mendacity and greed and to filthy *** lust…Homosexuals and Jews dominated Nazi Germany…just as they now dominate this doomed U.S.A…The Jews now wander the earth despised, smitten with moral and spiritual blindness by a divine judicial stroke…And god has smitten Jews with a certain unique madness, whereby they are an astonishment of heart, a proverb, and a byword (the butt of jokes and ridicule) among all peoples whither the Lord has driven and scattered them…Jews, thus perverted, out of all proportion to their numbers energize the militant sodomite agenda…The American Jews are the real Nazis (misusers and abusers of governmental power) who hate God and the rule of law.”
-- Westboro Baptist Church news release, December 26, 1996

The only example of "persecution" by the Topeka Temple Beth Shalom (found here):
In fact, his attempts to picket in Canada resulted in that country's first hate-crime law, informally known as the "Fred Phelps Law." Other legislation sparked by Phelps' protests includes the federal "Fallen Heroes Act." Passed in May 2006 after Phelps made headlines targeting the funerals of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, it prohibits protests within 300 feet of any national cemetery from 60 minutes before to 60 minutes after a funeral. Twenty states have since passed laws similar to the Fallen Heroes Act, while many cities, including Phelps' hometown Topeka, have enacted local ordinances tailored to thwart Phelps.


Why I chose the Westboro Baptist Church as an example:
I suspect that most (if not all) mainstream and conservative Christians are appalled by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church. Despite this, the members of this church have somehow managed to rationalize their behavior to the point that they see any actions taken against them to be "persecution." Similarly, I think there are people (not necessarily those on the right side of the political / religious spectrum) who get so caught up in their own worldview that they see persecution coming from everyone who dares to disagree with them.
 

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
I had a rather healthy (albeit sometimes loony) debate on my FB page about Trump's treatment of the fallen soldier's wife (after Khizr Khan's DNC speech). One friend said she sides with Trump and the Republican Party because "conservative, believing Christians are being persecuted in the US".

Can someone elighten me exactly how Christians are being persecuted? Are they being forbidden to attend their services? Are they being questioned for wearing religious garb? When I asked for clarification, she proceeded to tell me how abortion is murder. Is that it? Seriously?

She had no response when I asked her how she thinks it feels to be a Muslim in the US right now.

Figures.

Open to hearing how Christians are being persecuted, though.

Well I thought that woman who was imprisoned for refusing to do the 'peculiar' marriage was certainly being persecuted.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Well I thought that woman who was imprisoned for refusing to do the 'peculiar' marriage was certainly being persecuted.
No, she was the one doing the persecuting. She was using her power to impose her will on others.

That is an excellent example of what some people have already said in this thread. Simply being told that you are not allowed to persecute people, does not mean that you are being persecuted.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I had a rather healthy (albeit sometimes loony) debate on my FB page about Trump's treatment of the fallen soldier's wife (after Khizr Khan's DNC speech). One friend said she sides with Trump and the Republican Party because "conservative, believing Christians are being persecuted in the US".

Can someone elighten me exactly how Christians are being persecuted? Are they being forbidden to attend their services? Are they being questioned for wearing religious garb? When I asked for clarification, she proceeded to tell me how abortion is murder. Is that it? Seriously?

She had no response when I asked her how she thinks it feels to be a Muslim in the US right now.

Figures.

Open to hearing how Christians are being persecuted, though.
I think it's a case where Christians were never challenged until somewhat recently, being used to doing things like putting hands on the bible in court, saying "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, The Ten Commandents in courthouses for decades.

All of a sudden, it all changes.
 

Karl R

Active Member
Well I thought that woman who was imprisoned for refusing to do the 'peculiar' marriage was certainly being persecuted.
Technically, she was put in jail for contempt of court. A judge had given an order (essentially, "Perform your job in accordance with the law"), and she decided to defy the order. She could have refused to issue marriage licenses in a different manner (for example, by resigning her position), without facing any legal repercussions.

If I go burn a cross on my neighbor's lawn, and he files a restraining order against me, and then I hang out in the street in front of his house, and I get arrested and thrown in jail for contempt of court (violating the restraining order), am I being persecuted?
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I think it's a case where Christians were never challenged until somewhat recently, being used to doing things like putting hands on the bible in court, saying "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, The Ten Commandents in courthouses for decades.

All of a sudden, it all changes.
Exactly. God was added to the government, money, pledge, etc. As America becomes more and more secular and in line with the constitution, the religious types will continue to complain. America was never a Christian country, the founding fathers would be outraged at how far Christians have urinated all over the founding secular documents
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Open to hearing how Christians are being persecuted, though.
Well, a lot of fundie business owners were persecuted for their exclusionary beliefs when they were made to serve the LGBT crowd, just as if they were regular folk. AND their right to retain the legal concept of marriage as they defined it was absolutely trashed by the courts. Then they were made to share their privilege of erecting Christian displays on public property with atheists. Of course there's always the biggie, the evils of evolution. Today many Christian school kids are persecuted for their belief in creation by being conflicted by the facts of evolution presented in science classes.


.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
The reality is that Christians are like the spoiled teachers pet. They got away with almost anything for years but now that the new teacher doesn't play favorites it's all about how 'it's not fair'.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
Surely they should want to be persecuted? it's on the book!

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven...
 

Demonslayer

Well-Known Member
When I was a kid growing up my Catholic parents would get pissed about Jewish symbols being displayed during the holiday season because "dammit, it's Christmas time!" They somehow saw it as the Jews trying to ruin Christmas.

Today we still hear about "the war on Christmas." To this day my mother refuses to say "Happy Holidays" she sees it as some sort of affront. Some sort of slight on her religion.

Persecution seems to mean "this sucks, we can't get away with bowling everyone else over anymore, and we have to put up with non-Christian stuff sometimes."
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I had a rather healthy (albeit sometimes loony) debate on my FB page about Trump's treatment of the fallen soldier's wife (after Khizr Khan's DNC speech). One friend said she sides with Trump and the Republican Party because "conservative, believing Christians are being persecuted in the US".

Can someone elighten me exactly how Christians are being persecuted? Are they being forbidden to attend their services? Are they being questioned for wearing religious garb? When I asked for clarification, she proceeded to tell me how abortion is murder. Is that it? Seriously?

She had no response when I asked her how she thinks it feels to be a Muslim in the US right now.

Figures.

Open to hearing how Christians are being persecuted, though.

In my experience, conservative Christians invoke persecution when we do not do what they want us to do.

Ciao

- viole
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
I see Christian claims of persecution in about same light as any group that's scrutinized and feels they are being "persecuted."

Usually lots of hype that amounts to "stop picking on me/us."
 
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