Constitutional Rights

[esmith]

If you have made your opinion known about the questions in the poll. I have an additional question for you that is addressed in the below spoiler. Feel free to change your opinion after reading the spoiler.

Spoiler

Now those that agree that felon should have the right to vote whether they are in prison or only after the get out of prison because it is a Constitution right; do you also agree that they have the right to own a firearm since that is also a Constitution right?

 

[Revoltingest]

I voted for the middle 2, but with the caution that I think "should" is too strong a word for me.
They're just choices I favor.

 

[Polymath257]

I think that committing some sorts of violent crime should mean you lose the right to keep arms as a condition of your conviction.

But, for non-violent offenses, I think arms should be allowed as much as they are in the general culture (which I do think should be restricted to some extent).

As for your poll, when they are in prison, I think they should not be allowed to vote. But once they have served their time, they should be.

 

[Nakosis]

I suppose it doesn't really matter since democracy fails when it becomes so easy to manipulate the masses through the media. To win an election requires X amount of dollars. I suspect rich folks will continue to make the rules regardless of who votes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you have made your opinion known about the questions in the poll. I have an additional question for you that is addressed in the below spoiler. Feel free to change your opinion after reading the spoiler.

Spoiler

Now those that agree that felon should have the right to vote whether they are in prison or only after the get out of prison because it is a Constitution right; do you also agree that they have the right to own a firearm since that is also a Constitution right?

I said that felons should have a right to vote, mainly because disenfranchisement has such potential for abuse that a hard line should be drawn: if a person is a citizen, then they should have the right to vote, period.

This is especially true with the racially-biased US justice system, where bans on felons and prisoners voting have become a new version of the three-fifths compromise.

As for your spoiler: this doesn't have any bearing on gun control. There's nothing about the idea that we should stop governments from monkeying with voting rights as a political tactic that also implies we should be okay with granting private citizens tools that they can potentially use to oppress their neighbours.

In fact, someone who is truly in favour of personal freedom will support wide voting rights along with responsible gun control.

 

[wandering peacefully]

If you have made your opinion known about the questions in the poll. I have an additional question for you that is addressed in the below spoiler. Feel free to change your opinion after reading the spoiler.

Spoiler

Now those that agree that felon should have the right to vote whether they are in prison or only after the get out of prison because it is a Constitution right; do you also agree that they have the right to own a firearm since that is also a Constitution right?

I don't understand the connection between voting and guns.

A person convicted of non-violent crimes should be allowed to vote and keep their guns, responsibly. Until the entire country agrees to rid our society of guns, which sure won't happen anytime soon, people who have paid the price for their crimes should have the same rights as the rest of society.

 

[fantome profane]

If you have made your opinion known about the questions in the poll. I have an additional question for you that is addressed in the below spoiler. Feel free to change your opinion after reading the spoiler.

Spoiler

Now those that agree that felon should have the right to vote whether they are in prison or only after the get out of prison because it is a Constitution right; do you also agree that they have the right to own a firearm since that is also a Constitution right?

I answered the poll and then read the spoiler, did not change my position.

I do not see how removing the right to vote serves a necessary function for the state. Every time you deny an constitution right you must show that due process has been followed and that the state has a legitimate reason for doing so. I don’t see any benefit in denying the vote, and I do see good reasons for protecting that right.

The spoiler question is just so stupid that I don’t feel the need to explain further

 

[metis]

The Constitution says that U.S.citizens have the right to vote in federal elections, and states removing the right to vote has been used in states that choose to have voter-suppression laws, especially those with relatively large numbers of minorities. The loop-hole that many states take advantage of is that the voting registry is handled at the state level.

 

[joe1776]

If you have made your opinion known about the questions in the poll. I have an additional question for you that is addressed in the below spoiler. Feel free to change your opinion after reading the spoiler.

Spoiler

Now those that agree that felon should have the right to vote whether they are in prison or only after the get out of prison because it is a Constitution right; do you also agree that they have the right to own a firearm since that is also a Constitution right?

My answer will be unpopular. I think the Constitution is obsolete and should be scrapped.

All questions on rights should be presented to an expert panel to decide (highly intelligent people who specialize in questions about rights). Societies are cooperative endeavors in which each citizen-member trades in rights for greater benefits. If the cooperative group will benefit by denying an individual's right, then that's what must be done. Otherwise cooperation breaks down.

Extreme example: Mountain Man can poop anywhere he likes, but if he moves into town, he's entering a cooperative endeavor and he must trade in his right to poop anywhere he likes (for greater benefits) because the group's rights must prevail.

 

[fantome profane]

Extreme example: Mountain Man can poop anywhere he likes,

Even pooping on mountains is not good.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think that committing some sorts of violent crime should mean you lose the right to keep arms as a condition of your conviction.

But, for non-violent offenses, I think arms should be allowed as much as they are in the general culture (which I do think should be restricted to some extent).

As for your poll, when they are in prison, I think they should not be allowed to vote. But once they have served their time, they should be.

I don't see any issues with properly released non-violent felons having arms as they had demonstrated restraint from hurting others in spite of the committed crime.

More on topic, as long as a person is serving sentence, there should be no voting rights afforded until released, with that debt paid and acknowledged to society proper.

 

[esmith]

I don't understand the connection between voting and guns.

A person convicted of non-violent crimes should be allowed to vote and keep their guns, responsibly. Until the entire country agrees to rid our society of guns, which sure won't happen anytime soon, people who have paid the price for their crimes should have the same rights as the rest of society.

You don't understand the connection????
Both are guaranteed under the Constitution....

 

[esmith]

I answered the poll and then read the spoiler, did not change my position.

I do not see how removing the right to vote serves a necessary function for the state. Every time you deny an constitution right you must show that due process has been followed and that the state has a legitimate reason for doing so. I don’t see any benefit in denying the vote, and I do see good reasons for protecting that right.

The spoiler question is just so stupid that I don’t feel the need to explain further

Ah, I see, you only think Constitutional rights should be applied to only what you want them to be applied to.

 

[Woberts]

Ah, I see, you only think Constitutional rights should be applied to only what you want them to be applied to.

No. Some constitutional rights are important, some should be abolished and the people who support them exiled. It's simple.

 

[wandering peacefully]

You don't understand the connection????
Both are guaranteed under the Constitution....

So what? There are many rights written into the constitution. Why not compare to all of them? Makes the comparison or connection irrelevant .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You don't understand the connection????
Both are guaranteed under the Constitution....

Do you see that as the only reason to support these two rights?

 

[esmith]

So what? There are many rights written into the constitution. Why not compare to all of them? Makes the comparison or connection irrelevant .

Reason 1 My post
Reason 2 Both controversial
and the major reason is to get the anti-gun crowd stirred-up

 

[esmith]

Do you see that as the only reason to support these two rights?

what's your point?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

what's your point?

Any rationale for a position besides "I support what's in the existing version Constitution across the board" could conceivably end up with different positions on the two issues, but you seem surprised that people might do this.

 

[sun rise]

The question underlying the poll is whether prison should be designed to punish or rehabilitate (of course we know it does neither very well but that's another question).

Ideally to me prison should rehabilitate those are capable of being rehabilitated. So I'd not vote "yes" or "no" but leave it up to the prisoner to decide if he or she wants to vote and if yes, then make it conditional on learning basic reading and citizenship skills where they are lacking. After all, we should have at least a few more voters who know what they're voting for or against and why.

As to guns, I basically agree with the "it depends" comments above with one addition. A second time violent offender permanently loses the right to have guns.