Continuing the discussion on the problem of evil.

[Aupmanyav]

This is of no consequence to what I have stated before.

That holds good only IF there is an intelligent designer.

 

[Koldo]

That holds good only IF there is an intelligent designer.

Can you elaborate ? I don't comprehend what you are saying.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Actually, interference wouldn't be required to an omnibenevolent perfect designer. But Brahman is not a perfect designer either.

Sure, Koldo, I understand that an intelligent designer will not need to interefere once he has made the world in the way he liked it, but does an intelligent designer exists? As an atheist, I do not accept existence of any such entity..

 

[Koldo]

Sure, Koldo, I understand that an intelligent designer will not need to interefere once he has made the world in the way he liked it, but does an intelligent designer exists? As an atheist, I do not accept existence of any such entity..

The problem of evil only pertains to a particular god(s). Certainly a worldview that doesn't include such a god doesn't have any ( classical ) 'Problem of Evil' to solve. This is what I have been trying to say.

 

[Chakra]

I think do not exist in Paramarthika. We do not know what exists or does not in Paramarthika. Atoms and energy are just reflections/perturbations in Vyavaharika, perhaps like the Saguna Brahman.

You said that in parmarthika only energy and atoms exist...so then what is vyavaharika made of? Aren't energy and atoms the only things that make up vyavaharika? What is the difference between the two?

 

[Aupmanyav]

You said that in parmarthika only energy and atoms exist...so then what is vyavaharika made of? Aren't energy and atoms the only things that make up vyavaharika? What is the difference between the two?

Energy fluctuations aka atoms, exist both in Paramarthika and Vyavaharika in the same manner. There cannot be a difference in what exists (i.e., Brahman). Vyavaharika is our perception, seeing through colored goggles. Parmarthika is without the goggles. That is the difference. Remove the goggles and Parmarthika becomes apparent. It is so simple.

Certainly a worldview that doesn't include such a god doesn't have any ( classical ) 'Problem of Evil' to solve. This is what I have been trying to say.

Yes, that is right. So, why complicate a simple issue by positing a God or a Goddess?

 

[Yoshua]

External: when one literally beheads or crucifies someone. when one literally sacrifices a literal animal.
Internal: when one symbolically beheads or crucifies the evil within themselves. The symbolic animal mind sacrifices. Eradicating all of those creepy flying things in their mind(evil thoughts).

Hi Unification,
Ok. The external would mean physical act of man; internal is a symbol and thinking about scary or creepy things. What do you mean by “crucifying evil within themselves”?

Ego: false self/false nature/false identity. Beast, serpent, devil, accuser, Satan... It's too close for most to realize: themselves. Their own worst enemy. They are the only devourer and destroyer of their own lives "inside" of them. Which in turn, devours others. One can never be more aware of themselves by living "outside" of themselves. The more one lives in their false self, the more naive, vulnerable, and succeptible they are to devour and be devoured and believe lies.

The false self(ego) of mankind would rather blame(accuse) everything and everyone else "outside" of them.

So the “Self” is the worst enemy. Therefore, man is a corrupted being, a sinner. I don’t think “Self’ is beast, serpent, devil and satan? This is wrong. Can you explain how the “Self” become satan?

Most think there is an enemy/adversary outside of them working hard to destroy their lives, but this is another lie of mankind's ego. Just another idolatrous image(imagination) of the beast(ego).

Yes, absolutely true that there is an enemy. Do you believe in Jesus? His words and statements?

So we have "where" the thinking ego derives from(serpent, or the reptilian brain complex). The brain stem and spinal cord...most ancient of the human brain where the mind's evil desires arise from created by ones own self. Snakes don't talk but minds think. One would have to be living in their false selves to be so naive to believe that literal snakes talk.

This complex is vital, beneficial, and for good also. We are always working through the potential of the "ego," for our own benefit and good through lessons. Just have gradually become more and more aware

Do you believe Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis?

Thanks

 

[Unification]

Hi Unification,
Ok. The external would mean physical act of man; internal is a symbol and thinking about scary or creepy things. What do you mean by “crucifying evil within themselves”?

So the “Self” is the worst enemy. Therefore, man is a corrupted being, a sinner. I don’t think “Self’ is beast, serpent, devil and satan? This is wrong. Can you explain how the “Self” become satan?

Yes, absolutely true that there is an enemy. Do you believe in Jesus? His words and statements?

Do you believe Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis?

Thanks

Hi, bud.

The "false" self. Die to false self and be born again to true inner higher self. Lower mind to higher mind. Lower nature to higher nature.

Sure, but not literally or externally. A book of brain and mind genetics and what occurs within.

Adam is the conscious mind and Eve is the subconscious mind in the garden(brain.) The snake is the unconscious/ego mind. Evil thoughts and knowledge(mind children) will destroy good thoughts and knowledge and vice versa. (Good fruit vs bad fruit... The internal war in mind heaven(consciousness).

The conscious mind impregnates the subconscious mind with a mind child(a seed.)
An individual is born whole, one. The conscious and subconscious mind are one. A mind that is one with "God." They leave their mother(true/higher nature) and father(spiritual nature) and cleave to their wife(subconscious mind). Influenced by their external environment and other minds, an individual gradually separates from one whole mind into two, (divorcing ones wife and separating from "God") and the eventual rise of a third mind... The ego/unconsious mind. Then their mother becomes their lower false nature and their father becomes their devil(ego/unconscious mind/false self) Two corrupted tablets of stone/west and east spheres of the brain. (An adulterous mind.) The downfall of the conscious mind of an individual. One works through the potential of the false self to gradually work it's way back upward into ones true self. (The Christ/Buddah/higher conscious.. The return to their true mother and father.) Divine inner marriage of the conscious and subconscious mind back into a single, one, whole mind.

So when "God" is slaying and murdering men, women, and children... Putting enemies of the mind under a footstool, it is symbolic for the destruction of evil mind people (bad fruit) that has a mind enslaved and raped. . the coming of fire to destroy such mind seeds. A force of energy within. Purification.

A lower natured individual thinks external and outward to themselves. Literal animals being sacrificed, literal marriage, literal slavery, literal countries, literal external everything when it's all internal(spiritual.)

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The snake says, why work? Just take the easy way, pick the apple. "Don't listen to the old man who says it isn't the right time to harvest the apple! He just doesn't want you to enjoy, he doesn't have the overall wellbeing in mind. Just pick it, it is the easy way to enjoy."

There's more to it than that. Prior to Jesus saying we need to be like God, God in the Old Testament is pretty clear He wants a monopoly on power and knowledge, both in this story and in the Tower of Babel story. This really is both a story about growing up and getting put in "our place".

Listen inside, not to the snake. The snake is evil.

Technically, the serpent was telling the truth. God Himself verifies the serpent's take on it mere paragraphs later. He didn't want us to be anything more than garden janitors.

Hi Aupmanyav,

Evil is real. I already encountered and engaged with them personally. This is reality. There is no point of saying evil does not exist nor it isn't real. Look at the world, if there is no evil, and if evil is sourced from human's will, it is insufficient to prove that theory. There is always a cause; what we see as evil is the result of that cause.

Buddhism is a self-dependent belief. All man's sufferings can be appease by man's own effort. In Christianity, we can lean on and dependent on God's provision, protection, peace, love, grace and mercy.

Thanks

And yet, if Jesus or God decides not to protect you, is there no recourse? There are too many places in the bible where both God and Jesus tell us WHAT TO DO. God may give us the strength to do it, but WE are expected to do it.

 

[aoji]

Getting back on track,

It makes no sense. You create evil so that people recognize good, but in the process you also have created evil. Why not create people to just recognize good? Why create a universe with pain and suffering so that people worship you and become better, when you can just create people good from the get go. Also to create evil, you must be part evil and thus you cannot be fully benevolent.

False premise. Originally Adam and Eve were created perfect and good. (They may even had been born Enlightened.) It wasn't until Cain slew Abel that evil entered the world. Cain was then marked (turned white?, walked upright?, lost body fur?) and he went out into the world to "marry" some other humanoid. At the very least the creation of Adam may connote imputing a soul to Adam, a spiritual nature, perhaps a mutation in the brain organism.

If the story of Adam and Eve is symbolic then it may connote babies (innocence) becoming teens (not knowing and curious to experience life) and teens becoming adult (knowing), with the eating of the apple connoting the formation of the ego. Or it may be taken literally, that innocence was lost when virginity was lost to lust. "Now he has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." That could connote a schism within consciousness, that one has a choice to do good or evil, or good and evil.

As far as there being evil, it exists within the world and within the other world. Good and evil may not exist to the Enlightened Mind, but it will exist within the un-Enlightened mind. Only God is good because God is Life and Evil destroys life. As said in the movie, "The Song of Bernadette," "A sinner is one who loves evil."

 

[JoStories]

This does not address evil not caused by someone's (or someone else's) free will; like childhood cancer. I think Buddhism avoids this problem by not positing a creator God. Things just go wrong randomly and we can only accept it.

I disagree on several points here. Some Buddhists, such as me, believe in a God concept, although it is a vastly different concept than those posited by monotheistic faiths. I also disagree about what is conceptually called 'evil' is random or that we can only accept it. I believe we choose what problems we must encounter, learn from and potentially grow from. Directives from the higher soul, if you will. Or what we choose prior to being reincarnated into our present life.

 

[JoStories]

I'm not sure you realize how many people you just casually dissed.

How so? I read it as that poster's opinion. If their opinion causes you to think you are being disrespected, I would think that reveals more about you and your faith than whether or not disrespect was intended.

 

[JoStories]

And yet, if Jesus or God decides not to protect you, is there no recourse? There are too many places in the bible where both God and Jesus tell us WHAT TO DO. God may give us the strength to do it, but WE are expected to do it.

If you are expected to do whatever God sets down for you to do, that is coercion, IMO. It means you are tap dancing to ideals that were written by men 2000 years ago and may or may not be germane to today. Furthermore, how is being told 'what to do' any degree of free will? Either do this or go to hell? Not much of a choice at all and further, its exploitation IMO.

 

[JoStories]

That is sure possible. I am not even a buddhist. Buddhism (as well as in 'advaita' Hinduism) reason for evil is wrong or absence of knowledge - 'avidya', 'ajnana'. Evil exists because of wrong emotions, kama (lust), krodha (anger), mada (pride), moha (attachment), lobha (greed) and eersha/matsara (envy). When we know better, we abandon evil.

I agree but I would also say that in order to understand and learn our lesson, one must know or encounter what the west calls evil to order to abandon it. Further, I don't think its as dualistic as some think. I tend to the Yin/Yang view that both what is called good and what is called evil must both be able to coexist. After all, darkness is just the absence of light, as one of my favorite authors wrote. If we shine a light in that darkness, it no longer exists as darkness.

 

[JoStories]

Hi Aupmanyav,

What is narrated regarding Adam and Eve is true.

Thanks

Do you have legitimate proof of this claim, other than the Bible or rather Tanahk, as it is that book you are assuming is true here. So how can you prove this assertion please?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I agree but I would also say that in order to understand and learn our lesson, one must know or encounter what the west calls evil to order to abandon it.

Yes, it begins in us in childhood when we try to take the banana from our brother's hand. Then, our parents tell us that we should not do so. That is what we call instilling 'samskaras' (rules for social life). Later, we encounter it all the time. (I remember about your vision problem). By nature, we are greedy animals.

 

[George-ananda]

I believe we choose what problems we must encounter, learn from and potentially grow from. Directives from the higher soul, if you will. Or what we choose prior to being reincarnated into our present life.

I basically agree with this viewpoint and we're in the same school of thought. However, in our current lifetime we are not privy to that bigger picture and the Buddha teaches us to avoid fruitless speculations and to deal with events we don't understand and that are beyond our control with unruffled acceptance. This detachment from the temporary and maintaining right thought will in effect accomplish the higher soul's purpose for the incarnation.

 

[Terryj]

In my view, there is so such thing as "evil" it is just a concept and all concepts lay within the mind of man. We do, what we call evil, based on the moral judgement society. We have created this idea called God and give it all the best qualities that mankind has to offer and called it "good". Because of this, there is the need to create a polar opposite representing all the "non-good" man has to offer, we called it "evil", and since both can not dwell within the same Deity we created a separate Deity to house the "evil".
If "evil" resides outside of mankind we would see it reflected in nature, and that is something we don't see.

 

[Thana]

How so? I read it as that poster's opinion. If their opinion causes you to think you are being disrespected, I would think that reveals more about you and your faith than whether or not disrespect was intended.

I don't know why you think the issue is about respect, but I assure you it's not.
Maybe you shouldn't be so hasty when jumping into other people's conversations.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

In Greek texts, John represents the potential of the ego(Satan)

Can you read Greek? I ask because while the transliteration of the Greek first person singular nominative pronoun is "ego", it is also the ACTUAL spelling for the first person singular nominative pronoun in Latin, whence comes the (Freudian-based) English used, and more importantly because what you said isn't in any way compatible with any "Greek texts" or texts written in other languages (or translated into them), not to mention the fact that ha-satan is Hebrew (Greek diabolos).