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Contradictions in the Bible
- Thread starter rrobs
- Start date
rrobs
Well-Known Member
First of all, of course we're good. I've not net a brother in Christ who isn't! Any way, I try my best to live peaceably with all people as per Romans 12:18. I experience various degrees of success with that, but I keep trying.I certainly haven't noticed that.
Perhaps I am the one with the communication problem.
Where exactly did I say I think you suggested that God asked Satan to kill people?
Where exactly did I say I believe you think the scriptures are a myth?
Thank you for answering the question though.
Personally, I think it's the spirits on RF. They seem to make people edgy, and unable to see friendly posts for what they are, and yes, misinterpret them, and see tings that are not really there. Don't worry about it too much. The only way to prevent that, is too leave RF, or, just read the post as it is, rather than imagine what's not there.
I know you mean well, and I am not your enemy.
True, there are some things about scripture we will disagree on, but these are things we expect.
What I think they can do for us, is make us think, question, and confirm, or refute our understanding / beliefs.
So are we good now?
So tell me, what conclusion did I reach, and where exactly in my post do you find it?
I like your advice on RF forum. I think if people read the Bible with the same scrutiny they read these posts, there would be more Christians. They certainly appear to pick posts apart word by word. I think they mistake 2 Timothy 2:15 to apply to forums!
So here is what you said that I guess I misunderstood,
"Surely you don't think Jehovah asked Satan to kill these persons in these instances... or is that your view?"
At first read I thought you were implying that I believed God partnered with Satan in killing people. Following your admonition to just read what's written, I now see you were simply asking a question.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Ding. You just won 1,000,000 dollars.
Audie
Veteran Member
@Jayhawker Soule puts people on IGNORE for reason such as your post to him. I think. I might be wrong.
rrobs
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure which of my post you have read, but I did quote a verse in Hebrews that should answer your question.Oh @rrobs I actually forgot. I still haven't gotten the answer to who killed all those people, in those scriptures I mentioned. I'd be glad to hear from you.
Heb 2:14:
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Rom 5:12:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Death came by sin. Adam screwed things for everybody. Of course the heroic action by one man, Jesus Christ, fixed the problem for anybody who cares to confess him as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9).
God warned Adam and Eve to not disobey His one and only command. He told them they would die if they did. That certainly doesn't mean He was responsible for their death any more than it would be the parent's fault if their child suffered a charred hand after having put their hand in the fire when their parents told them not to do that. Clearly death was not part of God's original plan for humankind. But neither was it part of His plan to make robots or puppets. He gave them free will. It's not His fault they exercised it in a way that didn't conform to His will.
I'm just talking. I was warning you that if you elevate the scriptures to equal what God says then you must beware of suffering God's jealousy, imo. You know that it is written, "no man can see God and live". Correct? Is not hearing God so much more than seeing God? As people are better known by what they say than by what they appear to be. To actually hear from God must be a terrible thing. Do you agree?
rrobs
Well-Known Member
Good, now I don't have to put up with him and he doesn't have to put up with me. We're both happy! Thanks for the clarification.
Which post might that be?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament shows that the word רָקִ֖יעַ (raqia; H7549) derives from the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ, to spread out, stamp out or down (as with a foot) or hammer out. This itself derives from the Akkadian word for metal bowl or kettle.
The Lexicon defines raqiya as "the beaten metal plate, or bow; firmament, the firm vault of heaven. Raqiya was understood as the gigantic heavenly dome..."
Certainly Egyptian imagery in the Hymn to Ra (from which the Genesis creation myths were partly taken) shows the body of Nut (sky) arching over the body of Geb (the earth) as a bowl shape. "Parallels to a hymn to Ra appear in the stories of the heavens and the earth in the book of Genesis (Pp. 6-7, Old Testament Parallels: Laws and Stories from the Ancient Near East, 2nd ed., Matthews/Benjamin)
"In the conception of the firmament as a solid substance (cf. Job 26:11) there is a distinct reminiscence of the Babylonian myth, according wo which the sun-god Marduk split the slain chaos monster in two and used one half of the carcass as a firmament, the other half as the earth. Above it was the heavenly sea referred to in Psalms 29:10 and 148:4, and in Revelation 4:6, etc." (The Interpreter's Bible: Vol. 1, Pg. 472)
"In its fundamental elements this description of the creation of the firmament and the waters above it, of the earth and the waters beneath it, and of the seas upon the earth, is like the creation epic that came from Babylon. The physical picture [see pg. 39 of Old Testament Parallels] is the same: a flat earth with mountains round its rim, on which the dome of the firmament rested as on pillars; in the firmament, windows through which the waters above could come down in rain..." (The Interpreter's Bible, Vol. 1, Pg. 472)
"The Israelites shared much of the world view of ancient Mesopotamia. Much of the material contained in the primeval epics in Genesis is borrowed from other ancient Near Eastern cultures. This is what makes the study of nonbiblical epics so valuable. By making comparisons and by seeing the general religious and literary environment of the ancient Near East, it is possible to understand better how the Israelites perceived their world."
(The Old Testament: Text and Context, Matthews/Moyer, pg. 44)
"The Genesis accounts of the creation utilize some of the this Mesopotamian material as well as other epics composed in ancient Egypt." (The Old Testament, pg. 47)
From these passages, it is shown that there was a continuity in how these ancient, Near Eastern people viewed creation. It is shown how comparisons are drawn between cultures. I think you're torturing definitions and overanalyzing what may or may not have been the case, interjecting biased and unfounded skepticism of the expert's scholastic findings. When the bible uses the word raqiya for sky, all indicators point to the fact that they pictured a rigid dome, just like their earlier neighbors.
rrobs
Well-Known Member
Well, God does magnify His word above all else.
Ps 138:2
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Yes, God did say that no man can see him and live. But He said that to Israel before Jesus' death and resurrections. They could not look upon Him without suffering severe consequences. But wouldn't you agree that Jesus' death and resurrection changed a few things? For example:
2 Cor 3:18:
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glassthe glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
This is written to Christians in this age of grace. Not only can we behold the glory of the Lord, but we are actually changed into that image. I would think that ought to put a spring in the step of any Christian who understood it. But sadly, many wish to continue in the ministration of death, i.e. the OT. Check out 2 Corinthians chapter 3.
You're going to make me work.
I was worried I was still being ignored by you. Welcome back. It wasn't satire when I posted that I had missed you.
rrobs
Well-Known Member
Look up, "Hebrew idiom of permission." Remember the book wasn't written last year in New Your or LA. We need to understand the culture of the people to whom it was originally written.
Skwim
Veteran Member
nPeace
Veteran Member
I did read your post, and understand your view.
What I am really asking, is if God did not ask Satan to kill the Egyptians in the red sea, to kill all the firstborn in Egypt, to kill the people in the flood, including the giants, born to angels, to kill those who looked at the ark of the covenant, or touched it, and were instantly struck dead, etc. who killed them? How did they die, in other words?
When Jesus said, 'Fear the one that can destroy both body and soul', who was he referring to, in your view?
When God asked an angel - his angel - to kill, who was doing the killing.
God also commanded people be stoned to death.
I think it is good when people appreciate the Bible. To me that is a good thing. However, I think it is more important to be able to explain to others, in a clear and simple manner, why they too can believe it.
It certainly will reaffirm your conviction.
For me, if I am reading the Bible, and I come across these verses, and someone says to me, "God did not kill them, because God is love. Satan is the one who kills, and we die through Adam's sin', I would certainly want to understand how that is true.
That's where you come in.
exchemist
Veteran Member
It isn't different. That is my point.
You assume it, because it is what you have been taught, or for some other reason external to scripture. But there are no grounds on which you can argue your stance of taking every word of the bible as "the truth" is better justified than an alternative stance that looks only for messages in it and does not try to attach significance to every word.
Furthermore, by insisting on attaching significance to every word, you create all these problems for yourself, of contradictions that you have to tortuously explain away.
So it seems far more reasonable to adopt the looser approach.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Yes, that must be it... God is such a trickster!
Audie
Veteran Member
Like I dont know it was not written on the upper
east side. Sheesh.
"the people to whom it was written"
Sure. Written for and by the people of the time.
No surprise there.
None of that addresses that a "god" who would
do things like the flood, the whole thing he did
to egypt, and divers other atrocities is a psycho monster.
Not that any of it actually happened of course.
But the crude and cruel people of the day naturally
invented a god like them only worse.
Audie
Veteran Member
So often I am reminded how very fortunate I am
not to have been born into a Christian home.