Controversy over religious accommodation

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This story made the news today:

York University student's request not to work with women stirs controversy


A York University student taking an online course is seeking to be excused from group work because his religious beliefs forbid him from meeting with female classmates.

His professor at the Toronto university, Paul Grayson, rejected his request, which ignited a controversy at the university about human rights.

[...]

The sociology professor got in touch with the Centre for Human Rights and the dean's office at York. Both replied that he had to comply with the student's request, with the dean issuing three separate orders to comply.

"I basically refused," said Grayson. "My main concern was that for religious beliefs, we also can justify not interacting with Jews, blacks, gays, you name it. And if this were allowed to go through, then all these other absurd demands could be made."

[...]

The student participated in the group project, ultimately. But Grayson said the university ordered him to make it clear to the student that he did not have to meet with female classmates.

The university issued a statement saying it is committed to respecting religious beliefs, but said the case was "complicated by the fact that it was an online course where alternative arrangements were put in place to accommodate students who were unavailable to attend classes on campus."

York University student's request not to work with women stirs controversy - Toronto - CBC News

I thought I'd put this out there for discussion. How do you feel about this situation? Should the university have accepted or rejected the student's request?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I dont think that the university should have been forced to alter either the content or delivery for curriculum to cater to any specific ideological group as a matter of policy. That said, I think it is entirely appropriate that the university could (given sufficient market demand) facilitate multiple potential courses which would achieve similar outcomes such a course could be designed for a particular consumer base - but should never be considered the equal of the unrestricted course; it is therefore understandable were other students (and indeed employers) to consider graduates from the altered course to have potentially been held to a lower standard - diminishing their qualification.

Therefore I could accept a university doing so - but only were they to make it clear (upon any certification) that the accreditation or qualification achieved was a restricted (content and/or delivery) course.

 

[Sees]

I think it is silly business. The student should have worked this out before it came up and withdrew if necessary. It is like dictating your customs in another person's house.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think it is silly business. The student should have worked this out before it came up and withdrew if necessary. It is like dictating your customs in another person's house.

It's everyone's house. This is a public university funded by taxpayer dollars. Does this change your position at all?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

It changes mine.

If the course is provided subsidized by public funds then no; it shouldnt have.

If it was entirely facilitated through private funds then perhaps it might have.

 

[Sees]

It's everyone's house. This is a public university funded by taxpayer dollars. Does this change your position at all?

Only the last part, which I think should be addressed if wanted/needed but still not put on a song and dance show. I don't like when people expect to be babied or to have the world bend over for them to be special. The universities I've attended always made it clear that their goal was to prepare students for working in a field out in the real world...don't see how sexual segregation will accomplish this in modern society.

Strict observance of fringe practices belong more in religious compounds/towns/islands/private property so we can still maintain focus on real world education and business.

 

[LuisDantas]

Agreed.

Accomodating for personal conveniences is of course necessary up to a certain point, but religious beliefs are to be ignored completely as a justification, at least far as public services go. The acceptability of requests must stand or fall of its own without religious considerations. Otherwise, as Grayson points out, you open the door for justifying religious discrimination that would otherwise be recognized as absurd and unfair.

And in this case, it seems obvious to me that it is not proper for a governmental institution to promise anyone that they will not have to work with women.

 

[crossfire]

Agreed.

Accomodating for personal conveniences is of course necessary up to a certain point, but religious beliefs are to be ignored completely as a justification, at least far as public services go. The acceptability of requests must stand or fall of its own without religious considerations. Otherwise, as Grayson points out, you open the door for justifying religious discrimination that would otherwise be recognized as absurd and unfair.

And in this case, it seems obvious to me that it is not proper for a governmental institution to promise anyone that they will not have to work with women.

I can see making accommodations such as installing footbaths in the lavatories and setting aside a couple of meditation rooms for people to personally pray or meditate (not lead by a religious leader) to accommodate religious students. However, when it comes to segregating people for reasons other than safety--not something you should expect from a public institution.

If this student feels so threatened by women, he can always veil himself in the presence of women.

 

[SkylarHunter]

Accomodating for personal conveniences is of course necessary up to a certain point, but religious beliefs are to be ignored completely as a justification, at least far as public services go. The acceptability of requests must stand or fall of its own without religious considerations. Otherwise, as Grayson points out, you open the door for justifying religious discrimination that would otherwise be recognized as absurd and unfair.

And in this case, it seems obvious to me that it is not proper for a governmental institution to promise anyone that they will not have to work with women.

Excellent point. This student should have checked the terms before taking the course and if he wasn't happy then he shouldn't attend.
If we start opening exceptions every time something like his happens the consequences can become dangerous. Like someone else pointed out, they might request not to work with students from a certain skin color or nationality and we don't want to step down from the 21st century.
People who have that kind of mentality need to make their choices. I had a client recently who refused to ride in a taxi driven by a woman. We simply explained that here in France women are allowed to drive (I felt very tempted to tell him to go back to his retarded country but held my tongue). He was aware of that and he came to France anyway. In the end he took the taxi.

 

[Revoltingest]

We go to far coddling people who demand that others alter the real world for them.
Consider:
It would be a prosecutable crime for a real estate agent to refuse to work with women.

 

[bobhikes]

Simply put

Religious rights should not trump equal rights.

If you feel that strongly about your religion go to a religious school or in this case an all male school.

 

[BruceDLimber]

What does 'work with women" mean?

In the same room, such as performing a lab together?

Or virtual association such as via two different computers?

And what about attending a lecture together?

Because the answer may depend on such a distinction.


Bruce

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What does 'work with women" mean?

In the same room, such as performing a lab together?

Or virtual association such as via two different computers?

And what about attending a lecture together?

Because the answer may depend on such a distinction.


Bruce

This was an online course, so I'm assuming that in this particular case, the objection was to online collaboration.

I'm curious, though: why would the answer depend on this? Does this make a difference for you?

 

[Urban Dharmic Warrior]

In my opinion; the burdon should be put on those with religous demands to fit these within the world, not the other way around, expecting the world to adapt to your single viewpoint.

Don't want to work with Women? ... As others said, investigate this BEFORE subscribing to the University course at a mixed sex institution.

 

[ChristineES]

Schools and universities can't and shouldn't have to kowtow to various problems like this. If they give one student special treatment, then everyone else will ask for them, as well. I agree with what others have said: He could find out about the class before it starts to see if it all right with him and withdraw if he needs to.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

This story made the news today:



York University student's request not to work with women stirs controversy - Toronto - CBC News

I thought I'd put this out there for discussion. How do you feel about this situation? Should the university have accepted or rejected the student's request?

I believe the student has every right not to wish to interact with anyone he choses. I also believe it's his responsibility to avoid anyone he does not wish to interact with. If a women enters the scene, he can get up and leave.

 

[HiddenHijabi]

If the accomodation is reasonable and wouldn't cause too much fuss or cause undue problems, then I can't see a problem.

 

[Urban Dharmic Warrior]

If the accomodation is reasonable and wouldn't cause too much fuss or cause undue problems, then I can't see a problem.

Would you feel the same if someone said to the University, "it is against my religion to work with Islamic people; you must make sure there are no Muslims in my work group" ?

PS.... Sunderland, Mackem I am a bit further down the road.

 

[Vinayaka]

I voted yes because of the principle and remembrance of my own kids losing marks for failing to do frog dissections in biology class, on principle. There might be a limit for student requests though. Not sure where I'd draw the line.

 

[HiddenHijabi]

Would you feel the same if someone said to the University, "it is against my religion to work with Islamic people; you must make sure there are no Muslims in my work group" ?

PS.... Sunderland, Mackem I am a bit further down the road.

I personally couldn't care as long as my own personal ability to participate in class or complete assignments/tasks as needed wasn't affected, and that I could have the same chance of getting the same marks as everyone else.

I should also let you into the secret I'm a Yorkshirewoman.